Boost and/or Fueling Issues After 1019 Nozzles and Stage 4

[PradoTDI]

Hi all,
New to tuning TDI's, I'm more used to old, mechanical Toyota diesels. A little background to my problems: I have a Toyota LandCruiser Prado with an ALH swap, initially I ran it with stock injectors, a GT1749VA from a BHW and a Malone Stage 1 tune. It ran 10-15psi, 850-950ºF pre-turbo EGT's at 65-70mph on flat ground, and would just touch 1250ºF at 18-20psi if I accelerated hard in 4th and 5th gear.

A couple of weeks ago I got 150P1019 nozzles installed and pressure tested by a reputable diesel injection shop, put in a 3 Bar MAP sensor and loaded a Malone Stage 4 tune. Now I can't get it to stay under 1200-1250ºF at 65-70mph on flat ground, and the slightest hill puts me up over 1400º. Boost will spike up to 23-25psi after each shift, then quickly drop back to 10-15psi, and only a significant amount of throttle will get it up to 18psi. There is a constant stream of black smoke out the exhaust at all times, and it pretty much rolls coal when accelerating.

I have adjusted the IQ to around 6.5mg/str with the hammer mod, and made sure injection timing is correct. IQ deviation range is -0.44mg/str to 0.99mg/str. I checked the turbo actuator with a vacuum gauge and it is within spec, but I don't know if the stop is in the correct place since I had to disassemble the whole turbo during the course of the swap. The N75 is brand new.

I feel like the engine has too much fuel and not enough boost. Power is great, but temps get out of hand so quickly that I don't feel like I can use it. Beforehand I could pull mountain passes in 4th without getting over 1100ºF, now in the same conditions I am pushing 1500ºF. What should I look for? Any useful parameters to log with a VCDS that would help get a better picture of what's going on?

Thanks in advance for your input!

 

[Andyinchville1]

HI,

When you upgraded the injectors and changed to a 3 bar map you need to get a retune to make things "work right".

When I upgraded to a better SMIC I was forced to used a 3 Bar MAP sensor due to the hole size on the intercooler and was told things might be a little "off" unless I retuned.

I think the pulse length (injection length) is a tune change that probably needs to be changed due to the larger injectors

Andrew

 

[PradoTDI]

When I put in the injectors and 3 bar MAP I got a Stage 4 tune from Malone based on the hardware I was installing, I was under the impression that a 3 bar MAP was necessary for that level of tune.

 

[Mongler98]

Who pop tested them? Did they tune the nozzles properly? You cant just pop test them like old school ones. They need to be tested and shimmied at various levels. Most shops can NOT do this.
Also you did not mention you replaced the turbo! If your running a stock turbo you are going to melt it with those nozzles and that tune. Same with the exhaust, you need a good down tube.
I ran 764s on a stock ahu at 7iq and I saw 2300 on the first pull. Yep. Turbo shot instantly.
I put a gt2052 on it at 27 psi and still had bad egts so I did an exhaust. Egts now manageable.
Did you actually change the turbo?

 

[PradoTDI]

The injector nozzles were fitted by Diesel Fuel Injection Specialists in Portland, OR, who are well versed in dealing with two-stage injectors. I am running a GT1749VA turbo from a BHW with a brand new CHRA; I used the factory exhaust elbow straight off the turbo due to space constraints, it is definitely more restrictive than I’d like. The plan is to replace it with a custom pie-cut 2.5” system, but I won’t be able to do that for another couple of months.

 

[tdi_my live]

Can you make a log with VCDS from the numbers 03-08-011.
WOT 4. gear from 1500-4500rpm

 

[PradoTDI]

Sure, I'll have a go at that this afternoon and post up the results.

 

[Owain@malonetuning]

Would be best to only log one block at a time since VCDS has a low frame rate on these ECUs. block 11 will show boost values along with N75 behavior.

A stage 4 tune requests 24 psi at sea level. If you have visible smoke out the back, and the ECU is requesting 24 psi but the engine isn't seeing it, then you have a boost leak, N75 issue, or mechanical problem with the turbo. Was the cartridge installed in this turbo aftermarket? from someone reputable? actuator movement tested with a vac gauge?

This tune works out of the box for this setup and there are many people running VNT17s with 1019 nozzles, it's the most common configuration.

These exhaust temperatures are not unreasonable for a pre-turbo readout.

 

[tdi_my live]

So I would like to have them together. Then you can see the relationships between air mass, injection and charge pressure better, even if the resolution is worse than individually. Hopefully the diagnosis limiters are increased otherwise you can see next to nothing.

 

[Mongler98]

replace the downpipe and up the boost the tune is calling for more fuel. give it more air.

 

[Andyinchville1]

Can you make a log with VCDS from the numbers 03-08-011.
WOT 4. gear from 1500-4500rpm

Hi

Just curious but is 4th gear the defacto standard to make logs with or can other (lower gears work as well)?

Reason I ask is how fast would one be going in 4th at roughly 4500 RPMs?

I plan on trying to get some logs run is why I am asking

Thanks
Andrew

 

[PradoTDI]

For me 4500rpm in 4th gear would have me going about 170km/h (105mph) and I'm not sure if my LandCruiser is capable of that! Even if it was, I don't think I would be brave enough to try. I just ran a pull in 3rd gear, and with the weight and wind resistance I have it should be plenty of load.

 

[PradoTDI]

Would be best to only log one block at a time since VCDS has a low frame rate on these ECUs. block 11 will show boost values along with N75 behavior.

A stage 4 tune requests 24 psi at sea level. If you have visible smoke out the back, and the ECU is requesting 24 psi but the engine isn't seeing it, then you have a boost leak, N75 issue, or mechanical problem with the turbo. Was the cartridge installed in this turbo aftermarket? from someone reputable? actuator movement tested with a vac gauge?

This tune works out of the box for this setup and there are many people running VNT17s with 1019 nozzles, it's the most common configuration.

These exhaust temperatures are not unreasonable for a pre-turbo readout.

Mark said he set this particular tune up for 22psi, since apparently the VA-variant turbo I have doesn't like much over 23psi. My cheap mechanical boost gauge seems to read fine, and I don't see/hear any indication of a boost leak in the engine bay.

The turbo cartridge was an aftermarket unit I bought about 3 years ago, but since I only got the vehicle running about 5000km ago it is basically new. I believe it was from Ebay, though I can't be sure about that. Actuator movement was tested with a vacuum gauge, but like I said the whole turbo has been apart and I'm not sure if the stop screw is properly adjusted.

 

[PradoTDI]

Here is a graph of boost specified/actual.

Screen Shot 2021-03-19 at 3.14.26 PM.png

• PradoTDI
• Mar 19, 2021

I'm working on a graph of more of the data, which of the parameters from the various groups should I include?

 

[PradoTDI]

Hopefully this is a better representation:

Screen Shot 2021-03-19 at 3.56.34 PM.png

• PradoTDI
• Mar 19, 2021

 

[Nero Morg]

If you're recording a log, you can drag and drop the file on Malone's site and it'll auto graph it, which is very easy to read.

 

[PradoTDI]

If you're recording a log, you can drag and drop the file on Malone's site and it'll auto graph it, which is very easy to read.

Wow, I hadn't realized they had that feature, that's a fantastic tool!

 

[PradoTDI]

Here we go:

Log #466729

log.tunezilla.com

 

[Owain@malonetuning]

Should only log one block at a time to increase the frame rate, you have ~400rpm gaps between data points so a lot of boost readings are missing, hard to tell what's going on.

 

[PradoTDI]

Should only log one block at a time to increase the frame rate, you have ~400rpm gaps between data points so a lot of boost readings are missing, hard to tell what's going on.

Thanks for the tip, I'm still learning how to do all this! I'll get some more data logged tomorrow and post back with the results.

These exhaust temperatures are not unreasonable for a pre-turbo readout.

So 1200-1300ºF continuous at cruising speed isn't a problem? The hottest I hit on my 3rd gear pulls was 1686ºF. Seems scary hot to me, but I'm used to old mechanical diesels that crack heads and drop precups at those temps.

 

[tdi_my live]

Here we go:

Log #466729

log.tunezilla.com

I see enough. The tuning is a big bullshit. Sorry for the hard words, but it is true.

 

[tdi_my live]

I can also explain why this is so bad. 2 serious mistakes are here.
The turbocharger delivers an air mass of 1150mg and at the same time an injection quantity of approx. 40mg in the driver's flood limit. That would mean a lambda of over 1,9. It's mega mega clean. At lambda 1.2 the smoke is still invisible. Since your car is smoking like a steam train, you have at least lambda 1,1. That means that much more than 40mg is injected. Conclusion, the pump voltage is not adjusted for the large nozzles.
Then the VTG of the turbocharger opens to the stop at 94.4% so that it is not over-revved mercilessly.

 

[Mongler98]

I see enough. The tuning is a big bullshit. Sorry for the hard words, but it is true.

How did that get past the filter!

 

[tdi_my live]

How did that get past the filter!

 

[Nero Morg]

I have a very similar tune without issues. Saying the tune is bad is like saying the sun is blue. Maybe actually help with info on what hardware is causing the issue instead of imposing your dislike of tunes or tuners.

 

[tdi_my live]

I have a very similar tune without issues. Saying the tune is bad is like saying the sun is blue. Maybe actually help with info on what hardware is causing the issue instead of imposing your dislike of tunes or tuners.

You can ignore what I gave as a reason. If you only knew how the software works. And then you would understand what I wrote. But it's like an open book, unfortunately it's written in Chinese for you. The tuner who also reads this should understand what I wrote.

 

[PradoTDI]

I was able to log the three measurement groups individually today, here are the results:
Group 003

Log #466997

log.tunezilla.com

Group 008

Log #466998

log.tunezilla.com

Group 011

Log #466999

log.tunezilla.com

 

[Nero Morg]

I understand exactly what you wrote, but if you read OP's original post, he even shows he was overboosting under had 4th pulls. Which means vanes are probably sticky/stuck. Low air volume will cause it to smoke like crazy. So again, if you're not going to be helpful, don't post.

To OP, have you checked your actuator to see if it's adjusted properly or sticking?

 

[PradoTDI]

I understand exactly what you wrote, but if you read OP's original post, he even shows he was overboosting under had 4th pulls. Which means vanes are probably sticky/stuck. Low air volume will cause it to smoke like crazy. So again, if you're not going to be helpful, don't post.

To OP, have you checked your actuator to see if it's adjusted properly or sticking?

I have checked the actuator, it operates very smoothly. I had the whole turbo apart about 3000 miles ago and thoroughly cleaned the vane assembly before putting it back together.

I have no reason to believe that the tune is the problem, from my limited knowledge of the logs it looks like the engine is getting exactly what it is requesting, which has worked for lots of other people with similar setups. I have gotten to wondering if there is a problem with my injector nozzles, if they're putting out more fuel than 0.220 nozzles are generally supposed to, and what the ECU is tuned for, wouldn't that create the exact problems I'm seeing?

 

[PradoTDI]

Re the actuator: I did check it with a vacuum gauge and it starts moving at around 3 inches and stops at about 18, but I don't know if the stop screw is in the correct place, i.e. does it start out with the vanes in the correct position.