Liqui moly ceratec?

Bob_Fout

Oil Wanker
Joined
Sep 5, 2004
Location
Indiana
TDI
2003 Jetta - Alaska Green (sold) / 2015 GTI 2.0T

James & Son

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 10, 2008
Location
Maryhill, Ontario, Canada
TDI
2006 Jetta
Yes that is true, but this product isn't named BoronTec. Even if it contains Boron, It's the nano Ceramic of 3 microns in size that gives it that CeraTec name. It's most likely trying to meet the benefits of ceramic coating of moving engine internals.
The use of ceramic is a play on words. They do not want it to be seen as another solid lubricant in nano form. It may enbed into bearings for 50,000 miles but it will do little good for the PD followers and may hinder getting the proper leak down rate of the follower. It has a very high co-efficient of friction at .15 to .7 which I see as abrasive. See my previous post which I have edited now realizing it is HB in ceratec
 

phaser

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2004
Location
Oregon
TDI
2004 Jetta PD - 490k
LiquiMoly Cera Tec Technical Data

[FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]Base : BN micro ceramic [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Arial]Color: : Yellowish white [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Arial]Ceramic particle size : Majority < 0.5 μm [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Arial]Temperature stability of the [/FONT][FONT=Arial,Arial]ceramic particles : To +1,200 °C [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Arial]Density at +20 °C : 0-89 - 0.90 g/cm³ DIN 51757 [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Arial]Viscosity at +20 °C : ~300 mPa*s DIN 51398 [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Arial]Flash point : 200 °C DIN ISO 2592 [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Arial]Pour point : -20 °C DIN ISO 3016 [/FONT]
[/FONT]
 
Last edited:

James & Son

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 10, 2008
Location
Maryhill, Ontario, Canada
TDI
2006 Jetta
LiquiMoly Cera Tec Technical Data

[FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]Base : BN micro ceramic [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Arial]Color: : Yellowish white [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Arial]Ceramic particle size : Majority < 0.5 μm [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Arial]Temperature stability of the [/FONT][FONT=Arial,Arial]ceramic particles : To +1,200 °C [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Arial]Density at +20 °C : 0-89 - 0.90 g/cm³ DIN 51757 [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Arial]Viscosity at +20 °C : ~300 mPa*s DIN 51398 [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Arial]Flash point : 200 °C DIN ISO 2592 [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Arial]Pour point : -20 °C DIN ISO 3016 [/FONT]
[/FONT]


"Micro ceramic solid lubricant suspension based on hexagonal boron nitride (BN) in mineral oil.

The* laminar graphite similar structure* reduces friction and wear and

prevents direct metal to metal contact.

The < 0.5μm particle size guarantees

optimal filter flow properties and protects against depositing of solid lubricant
particles."
Here is the description from the same page.
Edit; The above is the description from the same page you pulled the specs

http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/500/Liq...ficartions.pdf
This following is my opinion, based on been there done that plus a lot of reading

Do you really think there is ceramic particles floating around in your oil !

Do you really think there is enough of the *...* in there to really embed and stop wear.

In its dry form and embedded it has a co-efficient of friction of .15 to .7. I also see that it is not even nano size but from the discription less than .5 micron. This puts it in the ball park of the cheap stuff and you would need to add a lot compared to the expensive nano particles.

If they put enough in the 500 ml. can to make it worth while half of it would almost immediately settle out. You need a lot of micron size to do any good and that usually means it will thicken your oil just like soot will.

Again their may be some benefit to bedding into the wear spots on PD cam bearings.

Zddplus or equal is the only additive that is beneficial for the PD followers.



 
Last edited:

phaser

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2004
Location
Oregon
TDI
2004 Jetta PD - 490k
Here is the description from the same page.
Not sure what document you're referring to. Can you provide a link?

Here's the entire spec sheet Liqui Moly in Germany sent in response to my e-mail concerning Cera Tec and bypass filters:
The ceramic particles in our CERA TEC have a maximum size of 0,5µm. So it depends on the filter system you have if our particles will pass the filter or not.

We hope we could help you with our informations. Should you have further questions regarding our products we would be very pleased to get contacted from you again.
Best Regards i. A.
Steffen Niemietz
Anwendungstechniker
application engineer


http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/500/LiquiMoly_Cera_Tec_Specificartions.pdf

.
 
Last edited:

James & Son

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 10, 2008
Location
Maryhill, Ontario, Canada
TDI
2006 Jetta
phaser,

I edited my earlier post so that it is clearer.
The amazing thing is they imply ceramic but discribe a well known solid lubricant(BN). The reason they are now promoting this is its another product and they can make a better profit on or can maybe put more in a can than the molydta. These are both compatible with catalyst in small quantities.

the ability to embed and replenish itself is impossible on cam and follower unless you have copious quantities that then would interfere with dispersants and compete with zddp.

Basically, I read it this way when it comes to this product and there simple conveyance of a test. " we can tell you is we have made sure we have not put enough in this can that it will cause any problems". Thats my read on there testing.
 

70MPG-goal

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2012
Location
Quebec, Canada
TDI
1998 Jetta
Personally I've never tried the CeraTec but I've tried MoS2 by the same company. Both contain (BN) boron nitrid. If you use Mobil1 with VW 505.01 rating, they have (BN) in there as well. It's used as an anti-friction by many oil/additive companies. The LM Mos2 always made any car I put it in idle more smoothly and start quicker. I want to try some Ceratec to see if the cost is worth it. They claim improved fuel effiency and I'd like to mesure the results under simular conditions.
 

minis2003

Veteran Member
Joined
May 6, 2014
Location
hampton va
TDI
2006 beetle w/DSG, 2015 Jetta TDI w/DSG
Just added cera tec to my 06 beetle BEW will 82,000 mile running Rotella T6 oil
I am hoping to improve my MPG
I am wondering how long it will take to notice anything
100? 500? Or 1,000 mile?
But I will take my diesel uses
 

alhdude

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2013
Location
London Ont
TDI
2001 Jetta 5 spd TDI
ZOMBIE THREAD!

I honestly doubt you will notice much of an increase.

That being said I just ordered a bottle today at Carquest who are sourcing it through Worldpac (I get a pretty nice discount) I also ordered LM Diesel High Tech 5w40.

LM IMO makes a good product , however there are often other products just as good and at more reasonable prices when you shop around. RT6 being a good example.
 

TDI smile

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2012
Location
Edmonton, Alberta (b4 BC - LOWER MAINLAND = Chilli
TDI
2002 TDI (ALH) with 513,000 km. First Owner and very happy... No Problems, never left us stranded on the Highway. Average useage is about between under 4 ltr. and 5 ltr. Normal longdistance travel: 4.1/100
I tried to order some 2years ago and it was not available in Canada, so I called the distributor in the USA, he told me he would contact me when it was available.
I'm still waiting to hear from him.
NAPA is the store here in Canada.
 

minis2003

Veteran Member
Joined
May 6, 2014
Location
hampton va
TDI
2006 beetle w/DSG, 2015 Jetta TDI w/DSG
yes, an old thread but i thought maybe it will help or inform some new people to the world of vw diesel like i am.
i am used to cummins but vw diesel is a new animal for me
 

Van Wylder

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2011
Location
SE Ohio
TDI
00 Jetta sedan 5 spd. 03 Jetta wagon 5 spd.
Anyone? I'm intrigued, especially given I can acquire the Ceratec at a discounted price.
 

minis2003

Veteran Member
Joined
May 6, 2014
Location
hampton va
TDI
2006 beetle w/DSG, 2015 Jetta TDI w/DSG
i would say try it and see if you feel a difference after a few hundred miles.
just make sure your engine is clean on the inside.

the first time i felt very little change, i did an amsoil engine flush then filled with T6 and changed it at 5,000 before another oil change just to clean the inside of the engine and then in added cera tec. this time i did notice change in the engine sound a little quieter and smoother after a few hundred miles.
 

minis2003

Veteran Member
Joined
May 6, 2014
Location
hampton va
TDI
2006 beetle w/DSG, 2015 Jetta TDI w/DSG
When I was reading the bobisheoilguy forum I saw people talking about liqui-moly products some seem to do the same things. So I was a little confused on how some of them work and how they were different. So I wrote liqui-moly and ask them the that question. This was their reply.

Thank you for your inquiry and your interest in Liqui Moly products.

Our Liqui Moly Motor Protect, Liqui Moly Cera Tec and our Liqui Moly MoS2 Anti-Friction Engine Treatment
reduces all the friction and the wear but in different ways and with different active ingredients.

Liqui Moly MoS2 Anti-Friction Engine Treatment:
This is the classic among our additives.
The solid lubricant MoS2 bilds a lubricating film on the sliding surface and the bearings.
Especially in the starting phase, when the oil pressure is low, can this lubricating film reduce the wear.
The effect lasts until the oil change, because you lost the MoS2 with the old oil.
Therefore, you get the best protection when you use the MoS2 at each oil change.

Liqui Moly Motor Protect:
This additive works compared to the MoS2 purely chemical without a solid lubricant.
Motor Protect contains a chemical friction modifier which modifying the surface under heat and pressure.
This results in a sliding and deformable layer.
Since the surface is modified here yields a long-therm effect of approximately 31.250 miles (50.000 km).
Even when the oil is changed.

Liqui Moly Cera Tec
This is a combination of a chemical friction modifier and a ceramic solid lubricant.
By this combination Cera Tec prevents the direct metal-to-metal contact and this reduces the friction and the wear.
The solid lubricant is stronger then the MoS2 but the friction modifier is not as effective as that of the Motor Protect.
At a oil change you lost the most of the solid lubricants whereby the effect is reduced.
Therefore it is recommended to use Cera Tec at every oil change.

I send you our product informations in the attachment.



should you have any further questions, please contact us.

Best regards

i. A. Roman Göser
Anwendungstechniker
application engineer

F & E / Anwendungstechnik

Phone: +49 731 1420-644
Fax: +49 731 1420-82

LIQUI MOLY GMBH
Jerg-Wieland-Straße 4, D-89081 Ulm

www.liqui-moly.de

Amtsgericht Ulm HRB 1383 | Geschäftsführer: Ernst Prost
Court of registration Ulm, HRB 1383 | Managing Director: Ernst Prost

LIQUI MOLY ist Deutschlands beliebteste Motorenöl-Marke!
LIQUI MOLY is Germany´s most popular motor oil brand!







Von: David Kaiser/Liqui Moly/DE
An: Roman Göser/Liqui Moly/DE@LM,
Datum: 10.06.2015 07:50
Betreff: WG: Neue Kontaktanfrage von der Liqui Moly Website (amerikanisch)
Gesendet von: Roman Göser



----- Weitergeleitet von Roman Göser/Liqui Moly/DE am 10.06.2015 07:50 -----

Von: info@liqui-moly.de @ LIQUIWEB
An: anwendungstechnik@liqui-moly.de,
Datum: 09.06.2015 22:16
Betreff: Neue Kontaktanfrage von der Liqui Moly Website (amerikanisch)
Gesendet von: domweb2@LIQUIWEB
 

SFHGolfTDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2003
Location
Ventura, CA
TDI
2002 Jolf GLS TDI - Reflex Silver (purchased 2011) | Previously: 2001 Golf GL TDI - Indigo Blue (sold 2005)
When I was reading the bobisheoilguy forum I saw people talking about liqui-moly products some seem to do the same things. So I was a little confused on how some of them work and how they were different. So I wrote liqui-moly and ask them the that question. This was their reply.

Thank you for your inquiry and your interest in Liqui Moly products.

Our Liqui Moly Motor Protect, Liqui Moly Cera Tec and our Liqui Moly MoS2 Anti-Friction Engine Treatment
reduces all the friction and the wear but in different ways and with different active ingredients.

Liqui Moly MoS2 Anti-Friction Engine Treatment:
This is the classic among our additives.
The solid lubricant MoS2 bilds a lubricating film on the sliding surface and the bearings.
Especially in the starting phase, when the oil pressure is low, can this lubricating film reduce the wear.
The effect lasts until the oil change, because you lost the MoS2 with the old oil.
Therefore, you get the best protection when you use the MoS2 at each oil change.

Liqui Moly Motor Protect:
This additive works compared to the MoS2 purely chemical without a solid lubricant.
Motor Protect contains a chemical friction modifier which modifying the surface under heat and pressure.
This results in a sliding and deformable layer.
Since the surface is modified here yields a long-therm effect of approximately 31.250 miles (50.000 km).
Even when the oil is changed.

Liqui Moly Cera Tec
This is a combination of a chemical friction modifier and a ceramic solid lubricant.
By this combination Cera Tec prevents the direct metal-to-metal contact and this reduces the friction and the wear.
The solid lubricant is stronger then the MoS2 but the friction modifier is not as effective as that of the Motor Protect.
At a oil change you lost the most of the solid lubricants whereby the effect is reduced.
Therefore it is recommended to use Cera Tec at every oil change.

I send you our product informations in the attachment.



should you have any further questions, please contact us.

Best regards

i. A. Roman Göser
Anwendungstechniker
application engineer

F & E / Anwendungstechnik

Phone: +49 731 1420-644
Fax: +49 731 1420-82

LIQUI MOLY GMBH
Jerg-Wieland-Straße 4, D-89081 Ulm

www.liqui-moly.de

Amtsgericht Ulm HRB 1383 | Geschäftsführer: Ernst Prost
Court of registration Ulm, HRB 1383 | Managing Director: Ernst Prost

LIQUI MOLY ist Deutschlands beliebteste Motorenöl-Marke!
LIQUI MOLY is Germany´s most popular motor oil brand!







Von: David Kaiser/Liqui Moly/DE
An: Roman Göser/Liqui Moly/DE@LM,
Datum: 10.06.2015 07:50
Betreff: WG: Neue Kontaktanfrage von der Liqui Moly Website (amerikanisch)
Gesendet von: Roman Göser



----- Weitergeleitet von Roman Göser/Liqui Moly/DE am 10.06.2015 07:50 -----

Von: info@liqui-moly.de @ LIQUIWEB
An: anwendungstechnik@liqui-moly.de,
Datum: 09.06.2015 22:16
Betreff: Neue Kontaktanfrage von der Liqui Moly Website (amerikanisch)
Gesendet von: domweb2@LIQUIWEB
Thanks for sending this. I'm planning on using some Mos2 in my next oil change actually. Will report back.
 

phaser

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2004
Location
Oregon
TDI
2004 Jetta PD - 490k
From my reading it seems that the rank of benefit would be:

1) Liqui Moly Motor Protect:
This additive works compared to the MoS2 purely chemical without a solid lubricant.
Motor Protect contains a chemical friction modifier which modifying the surface under heat and pressure.
This results in a sliding and deformable layer.
Since the surface is modified here yields a long-term effect of approximately 31.250 miles (50.000 km).
Even when the oil is changed.


2) Liqui Moly Cera Tec
This is a combination of a chemical friction modifier and a ceramic solid lubricant.
By this combination Cera Tec prevents the direct metal-to-metal contact and this reduces the friction and the wear.
The solid lubricant is stronger then the MoS2 but the friction modifier is not as effective as that of the Motor Protect.
At a oil change you lost the most of the solid lubricants whereby the effect is reduced.
Therefore it is recommended to use Cera Tec at every oil change.


3) Liqui Moly MoS2 Anti-Friction Engine Treatment:
This is the classic among our additives.
The solid lubricant MoS2 builds a lubricating film on the sliding surface and the bearings.
Especially in the starting phase, when the oil pressure is low, can this lubricating film reduce the wear.
The effect lasts until the oil change, because you lost the MoS2 with the old oil.
Therefore, you get the best protection when you use the MoS2 at each oil change.



.
 
Last edited:

Zdouble

Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2018
Location
Tampa
TDI
04 Jetta tdi
Ceratec

Yeah I never use additives but stupidly tried this certec additive in my 04 Jetta TDI. Right after changing the oil and adding this motor started knocking loudly. Drive for 1000 miles. Just did the cam/lifter the other day cam lobes were worn down and 4 of the lifters were finished. We drained the oil and it came out like water, viscosity of the oil was that of water!!! I know the cam/lifter wear us normalon this engine but ceratec accelerated it at a rapid rate. I don't know if it is ok to use in other cars/engines but I can only speak for my experience i highly recommend you NOT to use this in a bew engine. I never used attitives and my engine was running perfect till I added this crap , will never use this or any other additive ever again.
 
Last edited:

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
I don't think any additive could cause that. Something else is up. You might want to start by looking for fuel or coolant in the oil.
 
Last edited:

Mongler98

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 23, 2011
Location
COLORADO (SE of Denver)
TDI
98 Jetta TDI AHU 1.9L (944 TDI swap in progress) I moved so now i got nothing but an AHU in a garage on a pallet.
Arnt you supposed to add these things like 10 miles or a few minutes BEFORE the oil change? Not after?
Whatever happed, take a sample and send it to blackstone oil analysts
 

Zdouble

Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2018
Location
Tampa
TDI
04 Jetta tdi
The cam/lifter issue is of course a normal thing with the bew engine. But to go from the engine running perfectly fine no issues to after changing the oil and adding ceratec it starts knocking like crazy is not normal. Than for the oil to come out like it did when we drained it, like I said like water. Never had an issue with coolant or fuel in the oil. Believe what you want, but I don't recommend anyone using this in a bew engine, if you do and have an issue like me don't say I didn't warn you.
 
Last edited:

Mongler98

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 23, 2011
Location
COLORADO (SE of Denver)
TDI
98 Jetta TDI AHU 1.9L (944 TDI swap in progress) I moved so now i got nothing but an AHU in a garage on a pallet.
Unless your oil is sampled and analyzed by blackstone, we wont take it seriously.
 

Zdouble

Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2018
Location
Tampa
TDI
04 Jetta tdi
I can't get a sample it has been disposed of already. I wish I did, but nonetheless I wish all that use this additive all the best and you don't have the same problem. This is just what happened to me in my experience with ceratec.
 

andreigbs

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 27, 2004
Location
Walworth Co., Wisconsin
TDI
N/A
"Right after changing the oil and adding this motor started knocking loudly. Drive for 1000 miles."
Methinks you probably had an issue even before you changed the oil and it just coincided with an oil change. You didn't mention what oil you've been using or what you just put in.

Also, if I had just changed the oil and the engine started knocking I wouldn't be driving it 1000 miles, but that's just me.

Lastly, one cannot do a visual inspection to gauge viscosity. Without a lube test, you simply don't know whether a lube is within spec or not. I wouldn't be so quick to blame Ceratec. Hopefully your new cam and lifter set lasts many tens of thousands of miles; curious what oil you've been running during your ownership.
 
Top