Stories when filling up at "gasoline station"

[hey_allen]

how? Slower ignition is going to be quieter.

The higher cetane slows ignition of diesel, which helps to quiet it.
One way to demonstrate this easily is to fill your tank halfway with biodiesel, it is amazing how quiet your engine will get compared to running straight petroleum diesel.
This is caused because biodiesel has a cetane of around 70, is your overall tank c team well above the minimum of 40 required of D2.


(edit: actually awake now)

I just double checked my information, and might have gotten that backward...
Per the oh so authoritative Wikipedia: A cetane number is a measure of the delay of ignition of a diesel fuel. A higher cetane number indicates that the fuel ignites more readily when sprayed into hot compressed air.


So, I don't know, but do know that the higher the Cetane went, the quieter the car got with the same injection timing, both in my TDI Jetta, and in my old MB 300SD.

 

[[486]]

The higher cetane slows ignition of diesel, which helps to quiet it.
...
This is caused because biodiesel has a cetane of around 70

...well okay, you do you
I'll just be over there being 'wrong'

 

[Lightflyer1]

I found this:

"Good quality combustion starts with rapid ignition, followed by complete fuel combustion. The cetane number is used to measure the quality of this combustion according to the self-ignition delay.
The higher the cetane number, the shorter the self-ignition delay and the better the combustion quality. Conversely, fuels with a low cetane number are slower to ignite and do not burn completely."

"Improved self-ignition /reduce ignition delay
Reduced black smoke and unburnt gas emissions, along with reduced injector fouling
Reduced engine noise, particularly during cold starts
Improved driving comfort"

http://www.acs.total.com/en/refining/cetane-number-improvement.html

 

[kjclow]

Not winterized as much as a normal seasonal move in pricing. In the winter, increased demand for heating oil (the same as #2 diesel, but with red dye added) drives up the price for diesel. In the summer, increased driving drives up the demand for gasoline while the demand for diesel slacks off.

I suppose. The increased noise would be due to lower cetane, not higher. I'd worry if the fuel actually changes the engine sound. It is impossible for you to tell what they've dumped into the tank along with diesel, and you might not want to know. I'm all for lower prices, but if it is that noticeable, I'd go back to the quality stations and continue to use my standard Redline fuel treatment.

Cheers,

PH

You forgot at add that harvest season also pulls the price of diesel up.

I agree that often lower cetane results in a noisier engine and poorer mileage. I filled the JSW in South Bend last summer and must have gotten some lower quality fuel. Saw about a 15% drop in mpg for the tank. Didn't notice much difference in how it ran though.

 

[TDI-WNC]

I live in an area where all fuel must be trucked up the mountain from a pipeline depot. When one of the pipelines ruptured, in Alabama I think, there was a panic rush to fill up and cars were 10 deep at every gas pump.


I go to a station that has diesel at just about every island, and has a diesel only island. I got a bunch of dirty looks as people thought I was trying to cut the line as I weaved through the lot to get to the diesel only island.

 

[TDI-WNC]

pulled up to the sation in the pooring down rain and windy as can be.....cracked the window and said fill it up with diesel please, then rolled back up my window and enjoyed the warm dry car while he pumped my fuel.....lol...gotta love Oregon!!!!

How do you pay, hand the guy your card and let him run off and do some quick online shopping and charge you for the fuel?

Pay at the pump has been the best thing since sliced bread.... and our stations all have canopies over the pumps.

 

[03GolfTDI]

How do you pay, hand the guy your card and let him run off and do some quick online shopping and charge you for the fuel?

Pay at the pump has been the best thing since sliced bread.... and our stations all have canopies over the pumps.

Oregon you are not allowed to pump your own fuel, I think New Jersey is same.

Anyhoo - used to have people try to stop me back when I had my '03, I think VW diesels are now known so have not had any issues. Only gas station stories I have are when gassers take up the only 8 diesel pumps at my local QT with 20 empty gas only pumps in between.

Now when I had my flex fuel MB C300 it was every other fill up I had someone try to stop me, one fillup the station attendant stopped the pump. I would just politely show them the yellow fuel cap and the gas door label saying E85 ok. One particularly macho "mechanic" did not believe me even after showing him the label and the cap and walked away saying 'your going to f&^% up your valvetrain'.

 

[romad]

Oregon you are not allowed to pump your own fuel, I think New Jersey is same.

It is GASOLINE that you can't pump; diesel pumping is allowed (except by ignorant gas station attendants/owners).

 

[MG19]

I found this:

"Good quality combustion starts with rapid ignition, followed by complete fuel combustion. The cetane number is used to measure the quality of this combustion according to the self-ignition delay.
The higher the cetane number, the shorter the self-ignition delay and the better the combustion quality. Conversely, fuels with a low cetane number are slower to ignite and do not burn completely."

"Improved self-ignition /reduce ignition delay
Reduced black smoke and unburnt gas emissions, along with reduced injector fouling
Reduced engine noise, particularly during cold starts
Improved driving comfort"

http://www.acs.total.com/en/refining/cetane-number-improvement.html

That makes sense. Maybe the station is so much cheaper because they get cheap, low cetane fuel. Ok.

So my last fill up was not the cheap station. Recently I've noticed my engine runs a lot quieter and smoother than normal, but it is also reading slightly lower fuel economy. Maybe a something with the possibly winterized fuel and cold weather?

 

[Lightflyer1]

That will do it for sure. Goes back up in the spring.

 

[[486]]

That makes sense. Maybe the station is so much cheaper because they get cheap, low cetane fuel. Ok.

... but it is also reading slightly lower fuel economy.

or they do their business in volume and carry better fuel for better prices
many stations "also carry diesel" whereas that station might "also carry gasoline"
implying that each would be an afterthought and not the main priority in remaining competitive

swhy truck stops have separate cash/credit prices on diesel, they need that couple cents difference to remain competitive and they know that mileage is tracked by truckers like nobody else (when you're getting 8 mpg and driving 10 hours at a time, there's serious money to be made by driving mizerly), so selling a lower quality product would come back to bite them quick.

 

[03 shaker]

I had a nice experience a couple days ago. Maybe a week ago I got the low DEF warning, so I was thinking I was going to a truck stop to use their DEF pump. But Friday night I happened to drive through a gas station and notice they had 2 combo gas/diesel pumps, and between them was a stand alone DEF pump! So I took 3 minutes and filled up. Much easier and cheaper than using the store bought DEF jugs. First time I have seen a DEF pump not in a truck fuel island.

Just wanted to share that. This station was by an interstate but it will be nice to see become more popular.

 

[scooperhsd]

I'm still looking for my first DEF dispenser at the auto diesel pumps. Would really be nice to simply fill up the DEF like the truckers do. Maybe the next time I need DEF I'll see if the truck pumps will fit (for DEF - I have no desire to use truck pump D2 dispensers - even in my 2000 NB that can accept that size).

 

[Lightflyer1]

I have not found any in the greater Austin area either. It would be nice.

 

[Tom Servo]

I'm still looking for my first DEF dispenser at the auto diesel pumps. Would really be nice to simply fill up the DEF like the truckers do. Maybe the next time I need DEF I'll see if the truck pumps will fit (for DEF - I have no desire to use truck pump D2 dispensers - even in my 2000 NB that can accept that size).

The only station where I've seen DEF with auto diesel pumps is at our local Buc-ee's. They must have 40 diesel nozzles and 20 DEF nozzles on their own separate island.

 

[Rob Mayercik]

It is GASOLINE that you can't pump; diesel pumping is allowed (except by ignorant gas station attendants/owners).

This is how it works in NJ too - legal to pump your own diesel, but not gasoline.

That said, many diesel pumps in NJ are programmed to require "attendant" cards to be swiped first to enable them, so I let the attendant start the pump, then I take over and handle the top-off/venting.

 

[Lightflyer1]

Just learned from looking at the Buc-ee's web site that the one here in Bastrop has DEF at the pump. Will have to try there next time instead of the boxes of DEF.

 

[romad]

This is how it works in NJ too - legal to pump your own diesel, but not gasoline.

That said, many diesel pumps in NJ are programmed to require "attendant" cards to be swiped first to enable them, so I let the attendant start the pump, then I take over and handle the top-off/venting.

Are these dual purpose pumps with separate diesel & gasoline hoses?

 

[03 shaker]

The only station where I've seen DEF with auto diesel pumps is at our local Buc-ee's. They must have 40 diesel nozzles and 20 DEF nozzles on their own separate island.

The last time I was down that way they were building that station. It's insane at how big it looked. Seems like new stations by interstates are installing DEF pumps, cool.

 

[pbkid6974]

Are these dual purpose pumps with separate diesel & gasoline hoses?

Some are, some aren't. Mostly they require an attendant card swipe because they don't want people pumping their own gas. By default, they just extend that to the diesel pumps.

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[Rob Mayercik]

Some are, some aren't. Mostly they require an attendant card swipe because they don't want people pumping their own gas. By default, they just extend that to the diesel pumps.

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This.

 

[pbkid6974]

So I had 600 miles to go warning for my adblue so I figured I'd stop at the DEF pumps on the jersey turnpike on my way home from school tonight. The attendant kept pointing to the gas pumps while I was pulling up, then asked me about 4 times if I really wanted to pump the DEF. Finally I just opened the trunk and showed him the fill cap. He just couldn't believe that my little car was a diesel. Oh, and it was $2.89/gal. Better than the $18.99+ for the 2.5 gal. box/jug that most places sell. It cost me a little over $10 to fill it to the brim.

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[n1das]

So I had 600 miles to go warning for my adblue so I figured I'd stop at the DEF pumps on the jersey turnpike on my way home from school tonight. The attendant kept pointing to the gas pumps while I was pulling up, then asked me about 4 times if I really wanted to pump the DEF. Finally I just opened the trunk and showed him the fill cap. He just couldn't believe that my little car was a diesel. Oh, and it was $2.89/gal. Better than the $18.99+ for the 2.5 gal. box/jug that most places sell. It cost me a little over $10 to fill it to the brim.

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Great fillup story. I haven't had any to share in quite a while.

I DIY all DEF fills by gravity filling with a funnel. I will not use a DEF pump due to the "water hammer" effect they create right as the DEF tank gets full. This can force DEF through the air stone vent(s) for the tank. Crystallized DEF then plugs the air stone vents. The DEF tank gets collapsed and cracked during the next DEF pump-out by the car. BMW dealers have damaged a lot of DEF tanks this way. Gravity filling with a funnel is safe to do.

I buy DEF at my local Walmart* store for $7.88 for a 2.5 gallon jug and DIY all DEF fills with a funnel.

 

[pbkid6974]

Great fillup story. I haven't had any to share in quite a while.



I DIY all DEF fills by gravity filling with a funnel. I will not use a DEF pump due to the "water hammer" effect they create right as the DEF tank gets full. This can force DEF through the air stone vent(s) for the tank. Crystallized DEF then plugs the air stone vents. The DEF tank gets collapsed and cracked during the next DEF pump-out by the car. BMW dealers have damaged a lot of DEF tanks this way. Gravity filling with a funnel is safe to do.



I buy DEF at my local Walmart* store for $7.88 for a 2.5 gallon jug and DIY all DEF fills with a funnel.

What "water hammer" effect? Water hammer happens when there is an in incompressible fluid moving and the discharge is stopped causing the rest of the fluid to "hammer" from the momentum. Really can only happen in pipes. The def tank is not under pressure and is open to atmosphere while filling. Definitely no water hammer happening in a tank.

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[Lightflyer1]

Overflow is probably what he meant. But hopefully the stones you are talking about are above the fill hole, then this won't happen. Mine is on the outside by the fuel filler anyway.

 

[DivineChaos]

stopped at truck stop on I-35 on way back from Austin last weekend. topped off with about 15 gallons of diesel at one of those islands with both diesel and gas pumps. went inside to pay cash for the fuel.
cashier said, "$17.18, have a nice day!"
We drove off without further incident.

[ June 10, 2002, 11:55: Message edited by: gardentender ]

well that was sure cheap

 

[Lightflyer1]

stopped at truck stop on I-35 on way back from Austin last weekend. topped off with about 15 gallons of diesel at one of those islands with both diesel and gas pumps. went inside to pay cash for the fuel.
cashier said, "$17.18, have a nice day!"
We drove off without further incident.

[ June 10, 2002, 11:55: Message edited by: gardentender ]

well that was sure cheap

18 year old post you are replying to, and doesn't seem to be with us on this earth any more.

 

[pbkid6974]

18 year old post you are replying to, and doesn't seem to be with us on this earth any more.

He just has some turbo lag...

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[Votblindub]

This is how it works in NJ too - legal to pump your own diesel, but not gasoline.
That said, many diesel pumps in NJ are programmed to require "attendant" cards to be swiped first to enable them, so I let the attendant start the pump, then I take over and handle the top-off/venting.

I asked a guy at a pump in NJ. I pulled up to a pump in NJ on the thruway and asked him about it. He said that because it's the thruway, I'm not allowed for liability reasons, but some other pumps on other regular roads can let you pump your own.

But, does anyone actually have a page out of the law book where it states what is allowed and what isn't allowed?

 

[pbkid6974]

I asked a guy at a pump in NJ. I pulled up to a pump in NJ on the thruway and asked him about it. He said that because it's the thruway, I'm not allowed for liability reasons, but some other pumps on other regular roads can let you pump your own.



But, does anyone actually have a page out of the law book where it states what is allowed and what isn't allowed?

This is New Jersey, people do whatever they want. Some places have and attendant card the must be swiped to activate the pumps while others simply need a card or to hit the "cash" button.

I've never had an issue pumping my own diesel or gas anywhere that didnt have the attendant card swipe requirement. Most times the attendant is thankful because I'm making his job easier.

I'm sure you could look up the code if you really wanted to. But I don't know of any incidents that have resulted in a ticket or summons for simply pumping your own fuel. I've done it right in front of cops and not one has ever said anything.

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