CR190 GTD1449vz charge actuator adjustment?

[jtree]

I recently installed a CR190 / gtd1449vz turbo on my 2016 TDI wagon.
How can I adjust the charge pressure actuator? I have a vcds hooked up and it shows the voltage at 8 instead of the desired 3.6. The actuator has no threads or obvious way to adjust it.
The car isn't making much boost until 3000 rpm and only is making a max of 18 psi of boost at 4000 rpm. I have a Kerma stage 1+ tune on the car and also tried it with the stock tune, which had the same problem. I dynoed the car and it is making less power befor 3500 rpms and a bit more from 3500-4000 rpm.

 

[jtree]

On the drive home tonight I pushed the car pretty hard, it’s quicker than with the stock turbo at high revs maybe the turbo vanes are stuck at the setting for high rpm? It’s a new turbo, a hybrid cr190 56mm from Xman. I’ll triple check the vacuum lines tomorrow. Has anybody had a new turbo with sticky vanes before? From the dyno runs we did after the install it made 20hp more above 4000 rpm but 20 less at 2500 rpm. I logged a couple of 3rd gear pulls and the boost peaked at 4200 rpm, way later than it did before and the boost climb was very linear, before it shot up quickly before 3000 rpm.

 

[Cuzoe]

I would resist pushing the car too much until you get a proper tune for your hardware. I'm running Kerma 1+ also, love it. I emailed them about support for the Xman hybrid as Kerma offers the CR190 themselves (along with required tune). Understandably, I was told that's what they support. Makes sense from their perspective and from customer perspective in most cases I imagine, keeps everybody's expectations in line. I think you're going to need a custom tune to fully support your turbo but at minimum I would try to get a standard CR190 tune flashed before giving it the beans.


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[Markus L]

OP, so you're saying you have GTD14 series turbo with 56 mm compressor wheel? That silly C/T matching will never work properly. You might have some other issues as well but that's the root cause.

 

[adjat84th]

Actuator adjustment is done by loosening the three screws that hold the actuator to the bracket (the holes are slotted to allow adjustment). With the ignition on and VCDS looking at turbine actuator voltage, you slide the actuator unit up or down until the voltage is what you need. I've heard really good things about the CR190 with 56mm wheel from Xman, I don't think that's an issue.

 

[jtree]

Actuator adjustment is done by loosening the three screws that hold the actuator to the bracket (the holes are slotted to allow adjustment). With the ignition on and VCDS looking at turbine actuator voltage, you slide the actuator unit up or down until the voltage is what you need. I've heard really good things about the CR190 with 56mm wheel from Xman, I don't think that's an issue.

Thanks!

That worked. I tried it once before but was too stupid to figure out that the voltage shown on my OBDeleven vcds was as a percentage of 100 so 27.77 is 3.6. I also replaced all the stock hose clamps with t clamps which fixed a boost leak, the car is now much happier. After the holidays I hope to get a correct tune for it.

 

[Cuzoe]

Sweet... looking forward to impressions on how it feels and serving what it does on the dyno if you get back on it, especially once it's tuned.

I assume you're not running stock emissions equipment? Have to keep mine in Cali so I kinda ruled out the hybrid worried I'd be leaving too much on the table without something less restrictive. My understanding about the standard CR190 is the primary benefit (compared to the 1+ tune I'm running now) is felt at high RPM, not sure it would be worth it for me. I'm jealous though, enjoy it.

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[jtree]

Sweet... looking forward to impressions on how it feels and serving what it does on the dyno if you get back on it, especially once it's tuned.

I assume you're not running stock emissions equipment? Have to keep mine in Cali so I kinda ruled out the hybrid worried I'd be leaving too much on the table without something less restrictive. My understanding about the standard CR190 is the primary benefit (compared to the 1+ tune I'm running now) is felt at high RPM, not sure it would be worth it for me. I'm jealous though, enjoy it.

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I live in Mexico City which has strict emissions testing so I kept the emissions intact, the tdi cars sold in Mexico have the ad blue disconnected.

Now that the car is running right I’m happy with the turbo even before i get a new tune. Mexico City is 7500 feet high and my commute goes over a 10,000 ft pass on a steep and twisty road. The stock turbo’s boost was done by 3000 rpm at the high altitude, the new turbo is pulling well to 4200 rpm which doubled the usable rpm range, to me a very noticeable change also I was hitting too high exhaust gas temperatures on the steep, long mountain pass. With the added rpm range the car is more fun to drive? To me it’s worth it because I drive often at high speed 80-110 mph up steep hills so every rpm extra lets me pass all the slow buses quicker and safer. If I lived in Kansas and was most concerned about 0-60 I don’t think it would be worth it.

 

[Kicking Fire 3]

fellow cr190 traveler

Love the cr190, was trying to find the largest to fit on there with stock factory equip, this seems like the one. I too have heard great things about xman, don't know how to get one from him tho, and cannot find examples of a gtd1449vk - only the vz.
gottuned.com has a gtd1449vz with garrett internals and a 7+7 blade which I'm prob going for. If I had to worry about emissions then kerma is the route, but wrapping rawek's cold air intake, neuspeed's turbo discharge (if it'll fit) and a straight is what I'm working on. cr150 passat.
Had a mkvii jetta cvca with the cr190 3" to muffler making 181whp and 310wtq dynoed, then put Bank's 3" cat-back on and welded the connection for a true 3" through. Didn't dyno but would have boost creep and flywheel shudder while merging onto highway (dsg). Manual mode helped minimize that.
I'm trying to get that 78mph to 113mph boost sprint back. To die for, used to flex roll bar on mountain passes up in washington state/ 73mph on 35mph corners, dry, full confidence.
I normally drive with no ac, which caused the glowplug light to come on and cut my throttle (overboost); running the ac minimized this occurrence from 8/10 times to 3/10. Malone stage 3.
I found as well that I would turn my 507 5w-30 spec oil to smoke, caused oil light on dash, pull over and uncap = white cloud on side of highway for 10 minutes. Liquimoly 5w-30 or even better 5w-40 (doesn't burn off nearly as quick) became my go to 505 spec. Also, while enjoying my foot into mine (all else stock internally) I found I would go through a 1/8th inch of coolant in 6-9k miles. This is based off of sea level, high humidity, 90 degree average day temp outside. (florida).
Sorry for the rant, rare to see others with anything done on the cr150 cvca.

 

[Cuzoe]

My Golf and jtree's GSW are CRUA but it's still rare to see discussion about CR150 power mods, outside of adjat84th.

jtree... cool to hear it's that noticeable even with full emissions equipment. With your driving speeds, at elevation, combined with the hills you can better use the CR190/hybrid. I drive slow and everything is flat, haha. Besides the time I was intentionally pushing the car about a month after going 1+ I've never bumped the EGT limiter. My typical driving never has me in that situation.

It would be fun to feel the car pull through 4k+ but probably not worth it before doing/finishing mods that I will use everyday. I'll continue to live through you guys.

 

[jtree]

My Golf and jtree's GSW are CRUA but it's still rare to see discussion about CR150 power mods, outside of adjat84th.
jtree... cool to hear it's that noticeable even with full emissions equipment. With your driving speeds, at elevation, combined with the hills you can better use the CR190/hybrid. I drive slow and everything is flat, haha. Besides the time I was intentionally pushing the car about a month after going 1+ I've never bumped the EGT limiter. My typical driving never has me in that situation.
It would be fun to feel the car pull through 4k+ but probably not worth it before doing/finishing mods that I will use everyday. I'll continue to live through you guys.

I was able to load on a stage 3 tune from Kerma last night and the difference is dramatic, it feels total different from the stage 1+ tune. I will take it to the dyno after l get a DSG tune in a couple of weeks Without a DSG tune the ECU cuts power often unless you roll on to the throttle slowly. It's now much too easy to spin the wheels in 1st or 2nd and the traction control light even flashes in third. It feels a lot like my previous Golf R below 5000 rpm except with more torque and less traction. I'm probably going to add a LSD and then stop messing with this car and start building up my new track/rally toy, a Renault Clio 182 that will also get a turbo

 

[TDIMeister]

The good thing is, with the hot uphill sprints in your daily commute, the DPF should never need any regen; it will do it all by itself!
Please report EGT on those runs. MkVII have watercooled exhaust manifolds IIRC, so I have little worry. I am switching to Evans waterless coolant in my ride.

 

[Cuzoe]

I was able to load on a stage 3 tune from Kerma last night...

Nice, did Kerma send you their CR190 tune? I've been driving my car with the stock tune flashed for the past month (trying to pin down an intermittent glow plug cel that started popping after I installed the digital dash, seems to be a software issue though, not tune related). I can't wait to feel the transformation between stock and 1+ again... your car sounds like a blast to drive. I'm manual so down the line when I upgrade the turbo I'll need to do a clutch at the same time or very shortly after.

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[YanCT]

Hello what rpms do you get max pressure please ?

I have installed the gtd1449vz (stock) on my Golf 1.6tdi and the max pressure (2.8bars) is obtained between 1900 and 2000rpms which seems pretty nice but would like to hear from you

 

[altz1]

Hello what rpms do you get max pressure please ?

I have installed the gtd1449vz (stock) on my Golf 1.6tdi and the max pressure (2.8bars) is obtained between 1900 and 2000rpms which seems pretty nice but would like to hear from you

You mean 2.8bar absolute?

 

[YanCT]

Yes. It’s 1.8 bars boost. In absolute I read 2.8 bars but anyways VCDS talks in absolute (2800hpa—> 2.8bars —> 1.8 bar of boost.
GTD1449vz runs up to 2.5bars (3.5) without any issue on many tuned 1.6 and 2.0L TDI CR all over the world.
My question was not regarding Max pressure but what rpms am I meant to get the 1.8bars as I think the car is a bit laggy under 2000.
Above 2000 there is no problem the engine produces 215hp and 400nm

 

[altz1]

What is your vnt duty cycle from 1500-2500rpm? Do you have a emp gauge? This could say alot, how ever i think your spool is already quite ok. 1.8bar @ 1900 rpm is with 4th gear?

 

[YanCT]

I had a closer look to my logs and in fact the requested manifold pressure is 2700hpa ---> 2.7 bars absolute --> 1.7 bar boost.

What do you mean by emp gauge ?I suppose it means Exhaust Manifold pressure ? I do not... DPF and catalyst has been removed then I do not have anymore any sensor after exhaust manifold (no egt sensor, no lambda, no pressure sensor". Anyway I'll fit a new EGT gauge (vcds can't read it anymore since remap) in the actual egt sensor' hole. Do you mean I can install a emp gauge in this hole just for a try ? and what am I meant to look for ? Thx

I draw graphism using Excel and it shows most of the time I get the 1.7bar requested pressure @ 1900 rpms in 4th gear and 2000-2100rpms in 3rd gear...


What about duty cycle ? I draw a graphism using Excel and it shows this :

N75 DUTY CYCLE.JPG

• YanCT
• Jun 3, 2021

 

[altz1]

Pre-turbo EGT sensor and after turbo lambda sensor are both super important, if you dont have lambda anymore, the dpf delete is done not correct.

Emp is exhaust manifold pressure yes, you need to measure it pre-turbo. If its very high during spool, it will limit your massflow and turbo comes on later. Based on the graph, i would open the vanes a bit more in 1500-2000 rpm area (lower duty cycle) before full boost is reached. And then you can check emp vs. Boost vs. Rpm before and after modifing the precontrol map.

 

[YanCT]

Ok then I'll have a talk with my tuner... And ask him to reactivate those sensors on my ecu. (they are physically here but ecu doesn't read them anymore). For example nothing happens if I disconnect the lambda sensor... no fault code, no lumpy mode, nothing and I still get random values in VCDS if I read oxygen sensor bank, lambda sensor etc... LOL
The other sensors (egts pre-turbo +egt post turbo + egt post dpf) just don't work anymore it shows ZERO in vcds. I can understand for the DPF differential pressure sensor, that's ok, but I can't understand why others are deactivated.
There is an other thing really strange my tuner didn't sort out : When we made my complete downpipe (decat - dpf off - egr off) I had power variations around the 3000 rpms (turbo was doing yoyo... it was rapids variations of boost pressure between the 2800rpms and 3200 rpms... really annoying) you will laugh because the only way we have found to fix this phenomenon was to let the electronic side of the egr (the actuator with the valve) connected in my engine bay... we let it here connected on his cable and we put it in a discret corner of the engine bay.

This car is really nice to daily drive and delivers good power but there is these few things I keep in my mind all the time (the turbo spool slowness and theses deactivated sensors).


When reading your last post I understand it's possible my turbo vanes are too open on low rpms that's right ? --------> too much restriction in exhaust flow ----> back pressure ---> spool is slow ?

It's hard to understand how could I get a faster spool by closing more the vanes as they have been invented to catch maximum exhaust flow at low rpm by getting open and then catch less exhaust flow at high rpm to avoid overboots conditions.

Just to make sure : when you mean close the vanes you means turbo catch less exhaust flow yes ? This way we talk the same way... And when I say duty cycle is high (100%) you understand it means vanes are fully open to catch maximum exhausttflow.

Please help me understanding this phenomena and if it's true a would prefer less vanes at low rpms ? Thx

I also forgot to mention : I have "big injectors" on this 1.6TDI : I took the reference of the 2.0 TDI 184hp injectors on ETKA, and bought news at my local dealer then I installed them (new seals, coding via vids done) and had my tuner appointment next day with dyno. The expected results of operation was here : no more black smoke and same power (maybe a bit more) yeah.... I think my tuner goal was to reduce injection duration thanks to bigger nozzle when he asked me to install bigger Injectors, right ?

 

[YanCT]

Or maybe have I an exhaust flow restriction due to my exhaust line after the downpipe ? My downpipe itself is quite big diameter (3") but the rest of the exhaust line is full stock from end of downpipe to exhaust tails (with the original muffler). There is a precise point on the line where I can disconnect it... it will be really noisy but it will bypass the line, big exhaust line curves and bypass also rear muffler. Should I have this tried ? (my donwpipe is a 76mm diameter : 3inches. The rest of the OEM exhaust line is around 55mm(2.17") + a big curve + the rear muffler

 

[altz1]

Its the other way around. Vanes more closed-> exhaust gas speed up between vanes -> turbo spools up faster.

Vanes too closed during spool -> high EMP, no flow and crappy spool.

Vanes too open -> more flow but slower spool.

Its quite difficult to tune the vane position pre-control to perfection, as you want to avoid large backpressure peaks but in the same time you want your full boost asap. I have been doing this with my twin gtb2260 setup without EMP reading, and its a PITA. If i had option now to weld a boss fitting, it would be much easier...i forgot it while the engine was out.

Maybe your tuner used swiftec or some other DPF removal software that often deletes lambda and egt-s etc. That is crap. Pre-turbo EGT and after turbo lambda MUST work otherwise you have no EGT protection and no idea how rich is the actual mixture.

You can test the exhaust, but being 1.6 i would guess your exhaust is plenty large and has no real backpressure. At the very least it wont affect your spool, if the end is restrictive, your top end power would only suffer.

 

[YanCT]

Anyway I realised my actuator is not the good one for this turbo. The length of the shank is shorter than it would be. Then… when duty cycle is 90% or 100% or 20% for example… (which is too much anyway as you say) in fact the vanes are still too open than they should. It’s also why I have this over boost conditions on long duration full throttle…. (Code fault in vcds) : the turbo reaches 2.3 bars of boost whereas specified boost is 1.8bar. The vanes are never really closed enough like ECU thinks to slow down turbo.

and in low rpms, vanes being too open, are catching too much flow, which slow down exhaust resulting in a low spool ?

I ordered the adequate actuator. Will replace it and make the adaptation with VCDS (I know the procedure is some thing like voltage on full vacuum and voltage on zero vacuum to check and start basic setting… will have to investigate as I don’t know the procedure).

anyway this story of turbo vanes looks like something really precise to adjust and have to find a balance.

 

[YanCT]

Hello @altz1,

I'm really sorry to keep asking you about it but it's a mess in my head.

I have few problems to understand some of your explanations and I'm not sure we talk the same way.

For me, when duty cycle is 100%, vacuum is 100%, the metal rod is fully retracted in the capsule ---> vanes are fully open ---> the vanes send all the exhaust to the turbine.

When duty is 0%, vacuum is zero, the metal rod is completely released --> vanes are fully closed -----> the exhaust makes his way to exhaust line easier and the turbine is less driven.

Its the other way around. Vanes more closed-> exhaust gas speed up between vanes -> turbo spools up faster.

Vanes too closed during spool -> high EMP, no flow and crappy spool. ---> Why high EMP ? If the vanes are closed the exhaust is meant to go easier out because turbine is not on his way acting as a restriction ??? This is what made me think we don't talk and think the same way.
For example when the car is idling and if I disconnect the vacuum of turbo ---> the rod get out --> vanes get closed completely ----> and I can hear the beautiful breathing sound of my engine ad the tailpipe, not being muffled anymore by the (vanes) turbo.

Vanes too open -> more flow but slower spool. ----> I don't understand.

With your previous messages I understood my engine was fighting against himself and I liked this idea because it gave me a good idea of what to correct but now I'm totally lost.

I understood my duty cycle was too high at low rpm ---> vanes too open ----> turbine catching too much exhaust ----> exhaust flow slowing down ---> engine breath less efficient ---> slow spool.

But in the contrary if the vanes were too closed ---> turbine would not catch enough exhaust before high rpms ---> efficient exhaust flow for engine breath but -----> slow spool.

But, is not the goal of VNT to catch maximum exhaust flow on low rpms ? Why do I read everywhere on internet we need to set the vanes fully open at low rpms to catch maximum flow ?

 

[YanCT]

Just to put schemas on my writes :

- Duty cycle 100% --> vanes open --> catching maximum exhaust to turbine

open.jpeg

• YanCT
• Jun 5, 2021

- Duty cycle 0% --> vanes closed ---> catching less possible exhaust to turbine

closed.jpeg

• YanCT
• Jun 5, 2021

 

[altz1]

You have it abit upside down. Check few videos about how VNT works, you will figure it out. Back to basics:

More Closed vanes (higher duty, more vacum) - low rpm and spoolup

More Open vanes (lower duty, less vacum) - full boost and higher rpm.

 

[YanCT]

I was thinking the contrary way !!!! In fact I was not visualing the real and true path of the gaz... Iwas convinced the gaz were coming "on" the turbine and not from the inside of the house... Thx a lot for this !!!

Now I understand