Why not he 1.4T instead?

426HPSS

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Apr 25, 2009
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TORONTO
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2003 TDI
Why not the 1.4T instead?

Been a few years.
Was onto other cars and have recently bought a 19 Jetta 1.4T SEL 6 speed...in usa or Execline in Canuck land.
Simple premise. Amazing economy and amazing torque and power. No DPF and no fuel filters and NO expensive diesel fuel. Regular gas! I used to get 5.0 litres per 100 Kms in my old TDIs and now I get 4.8 litres on way to Montreal.
My question is simple. Is the diesel not truly dead now that VW has worked around the basis for buying it? My numbers are highway and dead accurate. Pump to pump and not on the sometimes inaccurate dash computer.
Cheapest fuel in Canada and usa is plain old regular...
Blown away by this powertrain...durability? Who knows....
Comments?
Expensive 508/509 spec oil though only avail at dealer here. What a VW control joke that is!! When out of warranty I will be going to Mobil 1 0-20 or 5-20 unless someone can tell me my engine will blow up with Mobil 1.
 
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[486]

Top Post Dawg
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4.8l/100km is 48 mi/usg for those of us south of the border
Very nice mileage. I've noticed similar with my mom getting 38 mpg out of an 09 corolla automatic, and she drives hard enough to go through a set of tires and brakes every 20k miles. Something about that variable valve timing just gets nutty fuel economy.
 

turbobrick240

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No fuel filter?- that doesn't sound right. But yeah, new diesel cars are basically dead here. Cars in general are disappearing in favor of hulking SUV's, pickups, and crossovers. VW's 1.4t is a pretty darn good surrogate for a tdi from what I've been hearing.
 

426HPSS

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TORONTO
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2003 TDI
My apologies. Yes fuel filter but NO ongoing steady regular maintenance fuel filter as in a diesel.
Hey I love diesels but this has to be the best work around diesels around... In my opinion.
 

GoFaster

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Brampton, Ontario, Canada
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I've heard nothing but good things about the VW 1.4T.

Certain other manufacturers seem to have trouble getting good real-world fuel consumption out of downsized turbo gasoline engines (*cough* Ford), but this one seems to be for real.
 

Mike_04GolfTDI

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The real world fuel economy of the 1.4 TSI is about 7L/100km, which is not bad.

However, my TDI gets 5.6L/100km and with a stage 4 tune, has way more power.

Diesel here costs $1.38/L while regular gas is $1.63/L, so the 1.4 TSI would cost quite a bit more to drive.

Given that TDIs are no longer available, the 1.4 is a reasonable replacement, but it’s definitely not the same. I have driven a Jetta TSI and it’s just....meh. Decent A to B transportation for sure, but not a TDI.
 

turbobrick240

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Assuming the OP lives in the real world too, his fuel savings with the 1.4T seems legit. Mazda, Toyota, and others also have some impressively efficient gasoline 4 cylinder engines these days. When you factor in the lack of emissions equipment that modern diesels are saddled with, they are almost certainly considerably more reliable.
 

tikal

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Millions of miles of experience!

Here is thought to consider: When comparing passenger vehicle efficiencies you want to look at the expected (average) MPG based on as large database as possible. Here is what Fuelly.com shows for the 2017 Jetta with the 1.4T engine (CZTA):

"Based on data from 67 vehicles, 3,755 fuel-ups and 1,580,398 miles of driving, the 2017 Volkswagen Jetta gets a combined Avg MPG of 36.38 with a 0.18 MPG margin of error."

This is equivalent to 6.47 L/100 Km
 

turbobrick240

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maine
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The combined Fuelly rating for a '15 jetta tdi is 41 mpg. Around here that would make the 1.4T burning RUG @ 36 mpg slightly cheaper to fuel.
 
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scooperhsd

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I think I would prefer a larger turbocharged engine - say, the 2.0T in the Tiguan.


I'm not so crazy about Ford's EcoBoost engines either.
 

tikal

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Of course, as we all know, the size of the vehicle matters in terms of the cost/benefit of diesel vs gasoline. The larger the vehicle the better cost/benefit for the diesel vs the gasoline.

For the American standards a VW Jetta would be considered a relatively small sedan. The newer VW Tiguan is probably where a TDI engine would do well in terms of mass/size (37.6 ft³ of cargo space) ratio to efficiency and performance (torque) and would be a vehicle that the average American would prefer over a sedan (even over a Passat which is larger than the Jetta).
 

turbocharged798

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Of course, as we all know, the size of the vehicle matters in terms of the cost/benefit of diesel vs gasoline. The larger the vehicle the better cost/benefit for the diesel vs the gasoline.

For the American standards a VW Jetta would be considered a relatively small sedan. The newer VW Tiguan is probably where a TDI engine would do well in terms of mass/size (37.6 ft³ of cargo space) ratio to efficiency and performance (torque) and would be a vehicle that the average American would prefer over a sedan (even over a Passat which is larger than the Jetta).
I don't consider the MK5 and newer Jettas to be small cars. They keep getting bigger every generation. I believe the MK7 jetta is bigger than a MK5 passat. I don't understand this, not everyone wants huge cars. Its to the point now there is no new cars I really want to buy. Just imagine the VW 1.4T in a small aerodynamic car, 50+mpg on regular gas would be no problem.
 

Jetta_Pilot

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Yeah but load up the 1.4 with 4-5 passengers and luggage and watch the mileage go all to h e l l !

Do same with a diesel and it makes hardly any difference !
 

turbobrick240

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5 passengers? There must be a clown convention in town. :D
 

GoFaster

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... except that most cars spend most of the time lightly loaded, so it's hardly relevant what full-load operation does.

... and it seems that VW has figured out the calibration on that engine pretty decently, so that it does not have to go into thermal protection mode (rich) very much.

... and if you are driving on the highway, it scarcely matters if you add weight. The aero matters more, and that's not changed by adding passengers.

Different situation with trucks. Some people do tow trailers. The Ecoboosts are quite thirsty when doing that.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

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That is a nice drivetrain. I've driven it in a couple cars, and aside from the revs hanging on shifts I like it.

But Fuelly data supports my belief that that drivetrain won't get the same FE as an older TDI in daily use. Same as a new, fixed, one? It may come close. And with the fuel price difference the cost per mile may well be similar, if not lower for the 1.4T.

Depends on what you like. From what I read the 1.4T isn't plagued with some of the issues that the 2.0TSI and TFSI engines have, like failing timing tensioners and water pumps. But as more cars build up miles perhaps we'll learn something.

If you like it, great. I still prefer diesel for many reasons.
 

03GolfTDI

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I have not driven the 1.4T yet but its specs are pretty impressive, pretty much matches the output of the original 1.8T from back in 1998ish. The reveiws online seem pretty legit.

I drove a 1.8T in a 2015 Jetta SE (180HP) and was not a huge fan of dead response from a get go until the turbo got up to speed, my other half test drove both a Jetta SE 1.8T and the '11 TDI in the signature back to back and felt the 1.8T did not have the same getup and go as the TDI and much preferred the TDI powerband.
 

Mike_04GolfTDI

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I drove a 1.8T in a 2015 Jetta SE (180HP) and was not a huge fan of dead response from a get go until the turbo got up to speed, my other half test drove both a Jetta SE 1.8T and the '11 TDI in the signature back to back and felt the 1.8T did not have the same getup and go as the TDI and much preferred the TDI powerband.
I noticed the same thing with the 1.4 tsi. It’s just kind of dead feeling until it hits its power band and then it takes off. Feels weird to a TDI driver.

It is a good engine, but I’m not going to tell VW that it’s wonderful and I wouldn’t rather have a TDI. Maybe they’ll reintroduce them in the future with a working emissions system.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

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I've found all of VW's turbo gas engines have noticeable lag. Much more so than TDIs.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

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Also Car & Driver noted that the top gear acceleration in the 1.4T/6-speed manual (in a Golf, not Jetta) was beyond pathetic. Of course you can just downshift, but that's the benefit of a TDI. Don't have to do that.
 

oilhammer

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There are just too many to list....
I think that is a decent engine. It is no TDI, and a similar displacement diesel would tag 60+ MPGs (they actually have those, and they actually do). But for the post-Dieselgate wasteland of the USA, if you want a fuel efficient small vehicle your choices are limited, and getting more so by the week it seems.

Volkswagen went too far to one end with the last generation of TDIs in gracing them with lots of power but not any better fuel economy. In other words, the technology was lost to what VoA/VAG thought more Americans wanted. And no doubt the power of the CBEA/CJAA/CKRA/etc. is fantastic, as it happens I drove a customer's 2014 JSW in to work today, and let me tell you, even saddled with the DSG, totally stock this car runs VERY good down the highway. However a lot of us, who drive a lot, and who factor fuel economy pretty high up, would have gladly purchased a ~1.5L CR TDI or even a 3cyl with similar HP to the ALH or BEW and been perfectly happy with that as it would have accompanied that 60+ MPGs. I know I would.

At least the 1.4t is so far proving to be better than the 1.8/2.0 EA888 engines. Every time I think I have seen it all, something new crops up on those turds. We've had several 2015+ cars in here that are burning through oil to the tune of about 1 liter every 800 miles or so. That is ridiculous. :rolleyes:
 

Rob Mayercik

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We've had several 2015+ cars in here that are burning through oil to the tune of about 1 liter every 800 miles or so. That is ridiculous. :rolleyes:
What, did they install the rings on the pistons upside down again like they did with the 2.0s back in the early MKIV days?
 

oilhammer

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There are just too many to list....
No idea, but of course like all manufacturers, they have an obscene amount of "acceptable" oil consumption, which most of these will fall under, so it isn't necessarily like they are going to do anything about it. There are specific engines that just seem to be abysmally bad, though, and once it starts, it only gets worse and worse, until eventually either the engine gets replaced or the owner/operator learns to use the dipstick frequently. Most of the time the engine blows up though.
 

Matt-98AHU

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I think that is a decent engine. It is no TDI, and a similar displacement diesel would tag 60+ MPGs (they actually have those, and they actually do). But for the post-Dieselgate wasteland of the USA, if you want a fuel efficient small vehicle your choices are limited, and getting more so by the week it seems.
Volkswagen went too far to one end with the last generation of TDIs in gracing them with lots of power but not any better fuel economy. In other words, the technology was lost to what VoA/VAG thought more Americans wanted. And no doubt the power of the CBEA/CJAA/CKRA/etc. is fantastic, as it happens I drove a customer's 2014 JSW in to work today, and let me tell you, even saddled with the DSG, totally stock this car runs VERY good down the highway. However a lot of us, who drive a lot, and who factor fuel economy pretty high up, would have gladly purchased a ~1.5L CR TDI or even a 3cyl with similar HP to the ALH or BEW and been perfectly happy with that as it would have accompanied that 60+ MPGs. I know I would.
At least the 1.4t is so far proving to be better than the 1.8/2.0 EA888 engines. Every time I think I have seen it all, something new crops up on those turds. We've had several 2015+ cars in here that are burning through oil to the tune of about 1 liter every 800 miles or so. That is ridiculous. :rolleyes:
I definitely keep eyeballing what the 1.6 CR TDIs do in Europe and so wish we could get those here. The fuel economy those get, even in a Mk7 Golf, is nuts.

The 1.4TSI looks more solid than the EA888s because it's not one. lol! It has a timing belt, for one. Which seems to be more reliable than VAG timing chains, sadly.

Also doesn't have that flimsy barely bonded together rear main seal.... or crappy monstrosity of a water pump assembly that will inevitably puke all the engine's coolant out in a matter of seconds without warning. Wonder if it will suffer from the TSI floppy wastegate syndrome as it ages?
 

tikal

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I don't consider the MK5 and newer Jettas to be small cars. They keep getting bigger every generation. I believe the MK7 jetta is bigger than a MK5 passat. I don't understand this, not everyone wants huge cars. Its to the point now there is no new cars I really want to buy. Just imagine the VW 1.4T in a small aerodynamic car, 50+mpg on regular gas would be no problem.
I agree with you and probably a lot of folks that regularly visit TDIClub would like to have more options similar to a Jetta wagon and/or Golf SportWagen. Unfortunately anything non-SUV and non-truck with a decent amount of cargo is becoming fairly extinct in North America :(
 

IndigoBlueWagon

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The current VW Polo is about the same size as a MKIV Golf. Meaning the Golf has grown one full size in recent years. And the MK6 Jetta is about the same size as a B4 Passat. Same thing.

But it's not just VW. A current C-Class Mercedes is bigger than my '93 300D (an "E" class, technically.) A 2 series BMW is as big or bigger than a early 2000s 3 Series. You get the idea.
 
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