VW Won't Attempt to Regain Diesel Leadership in US; Many TDI Models May Never Return

tadawson

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2013 Passat TDI SEL, 2015 Passat TDI SEL
Losing the manual transmission is akin to what I'm trying to say.

I don't think diesel, objectively, has a place even in the Texas to Maine scenario. How many product offerings do we expect car companies will continue with, if multiple hybrids can match/easily exceed diesel's efficiency? Maintenance costs? By "light duty is done", I'm looking at current manufacturer disposition, recent events and future regulations, and seeing the writing on the wall. Loyalists will be loyal. People will buy more expensive 114 mile i3s, instead of 238 mile Bolts. But for however much some might like small diesels, I think these people, TDIClub, are becoming a shrinking cohort. VW has to maintain a brand, and no matter the fairness we assess to the whole dieselgate situation, the CEO of North America has spoken and it sounds like they don't want to risk the taint of pushing diesel, anymore. Who else was there, in any material numbers?
Because some of us don't want to be bored to death with bozo technology to be able to get likely less efficiency that we already have? Hybrid efficiency comparable to a TDI typically isn't in the same size car . . . show me a realistic comparison of similar body size (and internal space) vehicles, and I might care . .
 

HBarlow

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"Driver's licenses are FAR too easy to obtain and keep, IMHO. "

TOTALLY AGREE. Way too many distracted, inconsiderate, aggressive BOZOs "driving" around these days. Looking at cell phones-causing weaving-even "expressing with their hand(s)" while talking on a cell phone (they can't see you moron-keep your hand(s) on the wheel). At least HALF the people driving don't signal their turns, don't bother to do a "head check" before changing lanes, etc. Not to mention people driving around with brake lights burnt out!!! Where is a cop when you need one.....

I feel better now........off rant.
You just described most driver's in Lubbock, TX.

But drivers are just citizens behind the steering wheels of cars. You also described much of the population of our country. Fundamental courtesy and the most basic element of good manners are lost.
 

turbobrick240

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Although meeting emission regulations may be a cost issue for diesel vehicles, they clearly are NOT a technical issue. The 2017 BMW 328d is arguably the lowest emission vehicle in the U.S. market (from what I've been able to determine at least), based on official emission certs.


2017 BMW 328d vs 2017 Volt (TZEV) vs. 2017 Prius Eco (AT-PZEV)

(Grams/Mile)



Emission....................................328d......................Volt (TZEV)…………….…………Prius Eco (AT-PZEV)


NMOG+NOx (Composite*)............0.008......................0.007 (+0.003 VOC)….……0.0147 (+0.002 VOC)
CO (Composite*).........................0.05….....................0.15………………………………….0.14
PM**.........................................0.0002....................Not Reported…………………..0.0004


*weighted average of FTP/US06/SC03 emissions @ UL
**per EPA cert
It's nice to see such a clean turbodiesel. I just wish the 328d was priced more in my range. Maybe in a couple of years. I think I'll have to test drive one.
 

pparks1

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I don't want an SUV, period! I find them to be the most useless bodge of transportation that has been built in years. High center of gravity to ensure instability . . High profile to ensure drag, and amazingly bad use of interior space. If I want to haul, I use a truck . . . If I want to travel, I use a real car - sedan preferably . . . the "Sport Ute" to me has zero fit . . .
And we carpool with 4-5 kids, so the SUV fits well. There is no sedan I know of that will seat 6-7 people (with 2 adults) We used to have a minivan, but wife got tired of driving it. And when we need to tow something, our Dodge Durango is far superior than a minivan. Nothing wrong with SUV's, they have their place.
 

fnjimmy!

Chucklechump
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Well,if you "own one",
Why did you put "own one" in quotes? Is "own one" a euphemism for something? Or are you suggesting he's lying? :confused:
and don't own a TDI any longer, maybe you should be spending your time over on the Prius boards instead of here? :confused:
I think he makes a valid point.

The golden age of diesel is behind us now, and with the particulate emissions from the now-popular DI gassers coming under scrutiny, pure ICE cars will go the way of the manual transmission and bias-ply tire.

Why isn't the constructive feedback of a former TDI owner welcome here? I know in subjective matters relating to vehicle ownership I would give more weight to the opinions of someone who has owned and liked a TDI that to those of someone who TDIs or VWs never appealed to in the first place. Mind. Parachute. Blah blah blah.
 

ApriliaNut

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the problem is that we drive too much. We commute too far, drive too far to go shopping, have pathetic public transportation systems etc. Plus, since there are no regulations on what we are ALLOWED to drive (I can take a 1 ton truck rather than my Jetta TDI, fuel economy be damned, whenever I please) all these regulations serve to do is unfairly harm compact economy car drivers with overly-expensive, complicated, hard to repair emissions equipment.
I know it's difficult b/c the "system" has done such a good job in entrapping us into various and sundry tontine schemes in the last 75 years or so, but, would you pleeeezzzeee quit drinking the kool aid?!? Allowed to drive?!? What kind of mindset is that? Therein lies the problem: "driving" I don't know about you but the government is intruding way too much into my liberty and freedom...I'll travel where tf I damn well please, when I please, and in whatever I choose to use to travel. No gubbernment is going to tell me what I can and can't do. (withing reason of course; if you're talking about CRIMES with an injured party, a corpus delicti, that's another topic altogether). Additionally, I DO NOT DRIVE. I TRAVEL. Laugh all you want but there is a difference:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cV8gRA-JYeg


And while we're at it the "schooling" I attended in the 50's and 60's had a big periodic table up on the wall in science class. In said table Carbon Dioxide was a central ELEMENT and not a POLLUTANT. It was oxygen to the plant family. But now these corrupt governments have found yet another way to get into everybody's pocketbooks. All you have to know about the bogus carbon exchange is where it's at: Chicago.
 

ApriliaNut

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When I was young and a stud there was a lot of: "hey, look at me" about my car choices. Gas mileage was not ever a consideration.

Now past 80 I'm turned on by a car's appearance and I think a 2012 white Passat is one of the freshest and best looking cars on the road today.

It breaks my heart there will be no 2019 all-new TDI Passat. That was plan A.

It breaks my heart even more that we don't' get the Passat wagon anymore, which I owned 2008 to 2013. It's still beautiful. I'd buy even if 18 mpg.

I may have to gag on low mpg and get a Volvo V9 wagon or Benz E400 wagon next year. I'm torn. Once spoiled by 40 mpg overall diesel it's tough to face 22-24 overall in a Premium gasser. And neither one looks as good as the Euro Passat wagon. You will laugh when I reveal I drive about 3,000 miles per year.
Well, why don't you find another 2012 Passat sedan or a Jetta nee Golf Sportwagon and "refresh" what's needed and not compromise?!?
 

fnjimmy!

Chucklechump
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And while we're at it the "schooling" I attended in the 50's and 60's had a big periodic table up on the wall in science class. In said table Carbon Dioxide was a central ELEMENT and not a POLLUTANT. It was oxygen to the plant family. But now these corrupt governments have found yet another way to get into everybody's pocketbooks.
I feel the same way about the USSR. I can't find it anywhere but I have maps from my childhood that prove it exists. It's a conspiracy. A c-o-n...spiracy.
 

bhtooefr

TDIClub Enthusiast, ToofTek Inventor
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Newark, OH
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I'm curious, what's the atomic number of carbon dioxide? I can't find it on my periodic table.

Also, I'm curious what periodic table had it in the center - mine has iridium there.
 

fnjimmy!

Chucklechump
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I'm curious, what's the atomic number of carbon dioxide? I can't find it on my periodic table.

Also, I'm curious what periodic table had it in the center - mine has iridium there.
On mine it's right above nitric oxide which is above polychlorinated biphenyl. Your table must be redacted by the censors.
 

bhtooefr

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Oh dear ceiling cat, I didn't even click on the video.

Sovereign citizens, on my TDIClub? It's more likely than you think.

If you "travel" behind the wheel of a car without a license (that is called driving), you are going to get into legal trouble, and it would be malpractice for any lawyer to try to defend that as unconstitutional.
 

NYC-TDI

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1. Carbon dioxide will never appear on a periodic table. It is a compound NOT an element.

2. Your ignorance of Constitutional Law is greater than that of chemistry.
 

HBarlow

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I know it's difficult b/c the "system" has done such a good job in entrapping us into various and sundry tontine schemes in the last 75 years or so, but, would you pleeeezzzeee quit drinking the kool aid?!? Allowed to drive?!? What kind of mindset is that? Therein lies the problem: "driving" I don't know about you but the government is intruding way too much into my liberty and freedom...I'll travel where tf I damn well please, when I please, and in whatever I choose to use to travel. No gubbernment is going to tell me what I can and can't do. (withing reason of course; if you're talking about CRIMES with an injured party, a corpus delicti, that's another topic altogether). Additionally, I DO NOT DRIVE. I TRAVEL. Laugh all you want but there is a difference:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cV8gRA-JYeg


And while we're at it the "schooling" I attended in the 50's and 60's had a big periodic table up on the wall in science class. In said table Carbon Dioxide was a central ELEMENT and not a POLLUTANT. It was oxygen to the plant family. But now these corrupt governments have found yet another way to get into everybody's pocketbooks. All you have to know about the bogus carbon exchange is where it's at: Chicago.
Thank you. This post is refreshing. It gives me a little hope that possibly, just possibly, our nation might survive.

I read so many depressing comments that indicate our population has been thoroughly indoctrinated with nonsense I often feel all is lost.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
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outside St Louis, MO
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There are just too many to list....
Thank you. This post is refreshing. It gives me a little hope that possibly, just possibly, our nation might survive.

I read so many depressing comments that indicate our population has been thoroughly indoctrinated with nonsense I often feel all is lost.

Well let's hope they've changed the periodic tables then, or we certainly are doomed and Idiocracy is coming true.
 

tikal

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I don't want an SUV, period! I find them to be the most useless bodge of transportation that has been built in years. High center of gravity to ensure instability . . High profile to ensure drag, and amazingly bad use of interior space. If I want to haul, I use a truck . . . If I want to travel, I use a real car - sedan preferably . . . the "Sport Ute" to me has zero fit . . .
Unfortunately your reasoning will not resonate with the average American consumer. Even in cargo usage I bet you 90 something percent of non-commercial pickup trucks go empty from point A to point B throughout a given year.

So what is the next step to make environmentally better vehicles for the US. Let's get these large SUVs and 'passenger' pick up trucks and electrify them by sticking a huge battery in them. Who cares how is this large battery made, where is made and the environmental impacts on places that have to do the additional mining, production and then subsequent recycling of them. Zero tailpipe emissions is what it counts. I do not want to know how my EV car is made :rolleyes:
 

VeeDubTDI

Wanderluster, Traveler, TDIClub Enthusiast
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Location
Springfield, VA
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‘18 Tesla Model 3D+, ‘14 Cadillac ELR, ‘13 Fiat 500e
I know it's difficult b/c the "system" has done such a good job in entrapping us into various and sundry tontine schemes in the last 75 years or so, but, would you pleeeezzzeee quit drinking the kool aid?!? Allowed to drive?!? What kind of mindset is that? Therein lies the problem: "driving" I don't know about you but the government is intruding way too much into my liberty and freedom...I'll travel where tf I damn well please, when I please, and in whatever I choose to use to travel. No gubbernment is going to tell me what I can and can't do. (withing reason of course; if you're talking about CRIMES with an injured party, a corpus delicti, that's another topic altogether). Additionally, I DO NOT DRIVE. I TRAVEL. Laugh all you want but there is a difference:
Driving a motor vehicle on public roads is a privilege, not a right. If you have demonstrated that you can't handle that responsibility, that privilege will be revoked by your state licensing agency.

Traveling is a right, and you may travel within the country by any means not limited by privilege. You can use public transportation, ride a bike, fly your own airplane (another privilege that requires a license), or go by boat (again, a privilege depending on the type of vessel and where you're operating it).
 

MrSprdSheet

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East Coast
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By "light duty is done", I'm looking at current manufacturer disposition, recent events and future regulations, and seeing the writing on the wall.
More food for the above, from Forbes:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/bertels...lgate-turns-into-teslas-tarbaby/#4171bcc536f0

"done" isn't saying everyone hates diesel. It's the supply side, regardless of how many applications where we think it still makes sense. They won't be making it. Schmitt has written some interesting articles. His take on NOx issues, despite the positive contribution to CO2 versus gasoline power, was spot on. He's basically saying the shift from diesel in Europe is about to be a much bigger boat rock.
 

JSWTDI09

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Well let's hope they've changed the periodic tables then, or we certainly are doomed and Idiocracy is coming true.
Fortunately (or unfortunately, if you prefer) the Periodic Table has not changed. http://www.ptable.com/

Carbon and Oxygen are still elements and Carbon Dioxide is still a compound, not an element.

Perhaps the real question is not whether or not Idiocracy is coming, but rather whether or not it is already here.

Have Fun!

Don
 

kjclow

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Well let's hope they've changed the periodic tables then, or we certainly are doomed and Idiocracy is coming true.
I was debating how to answer that post, Brian, you hit it.

Although, carbon and oxygen are kind of in the middle of the upper left on the table. I suppose one could look at through sleepy eyes and assume they are bonded on the table but then that comes up to carbon monoxide.
 
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tadawson

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And we carpool with 4-5 kids, so the SUV fits well. There is no sedan I know of that will seat 6-7 people (with 2 adults) We used to have a minivan, but wife got tired of driving it. And when we need to tow something, our Dodge Durango is far superior than a minivan. Nothing wrong with SUV's, they have their place.
Makes sense then . . . kind of a corner case, though . . . my thought was more centered on the small-ish SUV's these days that only seat 4, and really offer nothing over a sedan but increased chance of rollower, higher drag, and lower mileage . . . didn't realize you had 6 or 7 bodies . . .
 

tadawson

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Unfortunately your reasoning will not resonate with the average American consumer. Even in cargo usage I bet you 90 something percent of non-commercial pickup trucks go empty from point A to point B throughout a given year.

So what is the next step to make environmentally better vehicles for the US. Let's get these large SUVs and 'passenger' pick up trucks and electrify them by sticking a huge battery in them. Who cares how is this large battery made, where is made and the environmental impacts on places that have to do the additional mining, production and then subsequent recycling of them. Zero tailpipe emissions is what it counts. I do not want to know how my EV car is made :rolleyes:
I'm not advocating clown cars, dammit! Most SUVs I see these days offer *ZERO* additional space over a nice sedan (and often less) but are more hazardous to rollover, and get lower mileage. Yeah, A boat SUV has more space, but so does a Kenworth . . . but the trend these days are smaller, 4 person . . .I'm travelling on business today, and Avis gave us a ghastly little crapwagon Chevy mini SUV. 4 crowded seats, and less than half the cargo capacity of my Passat, and likely heavier with worse aero an mileage . . . what's the point, other than "lemming theory" ? ? ?
 

HBarlow

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Fortunately (or unfortunately, if you prefer) the Periodic Table has not changed. http://www.ptable.com/

Carbon and Oxygen are still elements and Carbon Dioxide is still a compound, not an element.

Perhaps the real question is not whether or not Idiocracy is coming, but rather whether or not it is already here.

Have Fun!

Don
I don't think there is any question that it is here. Sometimes it seem idiocracy is the majority opinion to my deep regret.
 

HBarlow

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Unfortunately your reasoning will not resonate with the average American consumer. Even in cargo usage I bet you 90 something percent of non-commercial pickup trucks go empty from point A to point B throughout a given year.

So what is the next step to make environmentally better vehicles for the US. Let's get these large SUVs and 'passenger' pick up trucks and electrify them by sticking a huge battery in them. Who cares how is this large battery made, where is made and the environmental impacts on places that have to do the additional mining, production and then subsequent recycling of them. Zero tailpipe emissions is what it counts. I do not want to know how my EV car is made :rolleyes:
Let's don't.

If some of you want to drive the so-called clown cars, Prius, or other go carts with electric motors so be it.

I don't mind what you choose to drive but I surely do not want you meddling with my 6.7 liter Cummins-powered Dodge Ram 3500 cab and chassis. I drive it only rarely and only when pulling a heavy trailer.

Battery powered toy cars cannot substitute for the torque of the mighty Cummins when I need it.
 

bhtooefr

TDIClub Enthusiast, ToofTek Inventor
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Allison H40EP: For when the "torque of the mighty Cummins" ISB6.7 just isn't enough, and you need to make a go cart with an electric motor to make up for the ISB6.7 being weaksauce.
 

car54

theGAME
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Driving a motor vehicle on public roads is a privilege, not a right. If you have demonstrated that you can't handle that responsibility, that privilege will be revoked by your state licensing agency.

Traveling is a right, and you may travel within the country by any means not limited by privilege. You can use public transportation, ride a bike, fly your own airplane (another privilege that requires a license), or go by boat (again, a privilege depending on the type of vessel and where you're operating it).
Actually you are wrong. a license is NOT required to fly your own airplane. look up FAR part 103 regulations for clarification.
 

ApriliaNut

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Fortunately (or unfortunately, if you prefer) the Periodic Table has not changed. http://www.ptable.com/

Carbon and Oxygen are still elements and Carbon Dioxide is still a compound, not an element.

Perhaps the real question is not whether or not Idiocracy is coming, but rather whether or not it is already here.

Have Fun!

Don

You and others have pointed out my error and I thank you for that. In my zeal to make a point I was incorrect. Thanks everyone for pointing this out!
But I still stand by the Idiocy that is this bogus scheme purportedly backed by "science".
 

ApriliaNut

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Oh dear ceiling cat, I didn't even click on the video.

Sovereign citizens, on my TDIClub? It's more likely than you think.

If you "travel" behind the wheel of a car without a license (that is called driving), you are going to get into legal trouble, and it would be malpractice for any lawyer to try to defend that as unconstitutional.
It has NOTHING to do with the "constitution". Try the Declaration of Independence. I know it will be hard to believe but the "constitution" is part of the problem.That plus the USC & UCC. {There's that pesky indoctrination err education system again}. Study the common law which is what this country was founded on.

Don't click on this either:
http://usa-the-republic.com/revenue/true_history/Chap6.html
Fair warning: it's lengthy, not for those with short attention spans, and will challenge your preconceived ideas.

(Something tells me HMarlow will click on it but NYC-TDI probably won't lol).

Like I said b4, the "education system" has done its job of deception to a "T" for most of us who are lemmings. It's ultimately all about revenue and control.
 
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NYC-TDI

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It has NOTHING to do with the "constitution". Try the Declaration of Independence. I know it will be hard to believe but the "constitution" is part of the problem.That and the UCC. {There's that pesky indoctrination err education system again}. Study the common law which is what this country was founded on.
Don't click on this either:
http://usa-the-republic.com/revenue/true_history/Chap6.html
Fair warning: it's lengthy, not for those with short attention spans, and will challenge your preconceived ideas.
(Something tells me HMarlow will click on it but NYC-TDI probably won't lol)
hehe I clicked on it and survived.

As for the Constitution being part of the problem, well that depends on what ones vision of government is. It was certainly a problem for both the abolitionists AND the Confederacy, as just one example. It was a problem for women before the 19th amendment, another big example. And it has inconvenienced, annoyed and stymied numerous individuals, corporations, and government officials who had different "visions" of what is and what should be over the years.

Nevertheless it is the legal basis for this government. It has lasted this long due to the wisdom of those who wrote it understanding that it would evolve and laying out the path way it would use to do so.

If one has a problem with the Constitution the most effective way to change it is thru amendment. Good luck. The most common way to attempt change however is thru judicial proceedings. This works much more efficiently than the amendment process.

I suspect your real quarrel is with spefic laws and not with our Constitutional system of government (I certainly hope this is the case.) In that case I recommend robust participation in the electoral process. You do vote I hope.

As for the Declaration of Independence...beautiful prose, a rallying cry, the document that made us "Americans" more so than anything else... It has no legal status. It was never meant to establish a system of government, only to reject one.

And thank you for admitting error about carbon dioxide and the periodic table. I know how it is during the heat of an argument to dig in and defend. Admission of truth is not a sign of weakness.

Also I will admit to being a bit of an ass around here lately...but its just so much fun. For the record I do not wish ill will to anyone here. To VW yes, to you no.
 

Lightflyer1

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Actually you are wrong. a license is NOT required to fly your own airplane. look up FAR part 103 regulations for clarification.
An (254 lb max) ultralight is not an aircraft according to the FAA, it is an ultralight vehicle. Most that fly these aren't real ultralights anyway as almost everyone I have seen fails to meet the weight limit and/or one of the other requirements. They are fun to fly though. But with all their requirements they really aren't good for anything other than getting up in the air. 5 gallons won't take you far or for very long. I enjoyed mine in my younger days. An H-3 Pegasus, kind of looked like an old P-40 or British Spitfire.
 
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