Dieselgate: Volkswagen to Spend Up to $14.7 Billion to Settle ...

[sandydeb]

Thank you for telling me that a Mazda Miata is NOT mass production, but is a "supercar".

Now who'll give me $100,000 for my 1990 Mazda Miata?

Sorry if you thought that was implied. Nothing with a VW or Mazda in its name is anything but mass production.

When I last looked at a Miata, it was quoted almost 5k off MSRP.

 

[2015vwgolfdiesel]

Basically that is the law of supply and demand: if a car has a higher demand than supply, you'll pay at least MSRP if not more; if the demand drops enough and supply is higher, then you can end up paying much less than MSRP.

Least we forget the supply and demand might be vastly higher or lower in a market ... say ... 100 - 250 miles "down the road motors"

..... my local Tulsa dealer had 'bout zip in Golf selection. ALL the wrong color. YUCK

And way to proud in his prices.

 

[Cayman]

I was at the dealer yesterday to pick up a few things using my VW dealer card and was chatting with a sales guy there. He was very informed on dieselgate and mentioned a few things I found interesting:

- they carry a limited selection of new cars, preferring to fill the lot with used cars/CPO's where they can make decent money

- they've had three customers trade in their TDI's since the scandal was announced, all three sold for $20k + and sold immediately (I did not get details on model/year/mileage). They have a list of customers waiting for the stop sell campaign to be lifted, people want new TDI's.

- diesel lovers are hard core, they have doubts as to how many effected customers will hand over their keys unless they can use their car as trade in for a new TDI. Otherwise, why not keep it?

- the upcoming Alltrak is going to sell well

 

[dslman]

Vw killed TDI diesel

Why VW killed its TDI diesels in the U.S.: future emission standards

If you take some time to read this article & the accompanying articles linked within it, ..... The future is a lot more clear when it comes to TDI. IF ANY DIESEL Models are ever certified & sold in USA again, they will likely only be larger expensive models, i.e. SUV’s, maybe larger luxury cars (Maybe not) ... BUT>.. CLEARLY There will be NO DIESELS ANYMORE in Golf/Jetta type models. It’s OVER!
.

 

[Lobo56]

In which case the gas version - selling well off MSRP, would end up being almost $5k cheaper. Which would drive the breakeven-point for gas-diesel to almost 150k miles!


Once again, you may have a specific preference for diesel which is nice and good. But that is NOT going to be the basis of numbers generated from economic model based for average buyers.

I'm not complaining just making a statement on how it was when I bought my car!

Its called supply and demand, just like hot kids toys at Christmas you want them your paying more for them. I've owned VW gassers and I wasn't going that route. If you wanted a TDI in my area you were paying MSRP that was the deal at the time.

 

[sandydeb]

Why VW killed its TDI diesels in the U.S.: future emission standards

If you take some time to read this article & the accompanying articles linked within it, ..... The future is a lot more clear when it comes to TDI. IF ANY DIESEL Models are ever certified & sold in USA again, they will likely only be larger expensive models, i.e. SUV’s, maybe larger luxury cars (Maybe not) ... BUT>.. CLEARLY There will be NO DIESELS ANYMORE in Golf/Jetta type models. It’s OVER!
.

Agreed. It is not like other car makers haven't looked at trying to get economy diesels here. All of them sell diesels to the rest of the world.

Mazda even announced a diesel for the 6 but could never get the emissions-mileage-cost equation into a zone that worked. VW was the only company that could make it work, and now we know how.

 

[romad]

Sorry if you thought that was implied. Nothing with a VW or Mazda in its name is anything but mass production.

When I last looked at a Miata, it was quoted almost 5k off MSRP.

I didn't think it was "implied" since I had specifically used the 1989 Miata pricing as an illustration of the law of supply-and-demand during the discussion. It was only after I made that illustration that you tried to negate it with your post, so it looked deliberate.

BTW folks, I'm lowering my asking price to only a mere $50,000 since Sandy says my Miata is not a "supercar".

PS. was that $5K under MSRP for a 2016 ND generation Miata or for a 2015 NC generation?

 

[romad]

Agreed. It is not like other car makers haven't looked at trying to get economy diesels here. All of them sell diesels to the rest of the world.

Mazda even announced a diesel for the 6 but could never get the emissions-mileage-cost equation into a zone that worked. VW was the only company that could make it work, and now we know how.

Mazda's is the SkyActiv-D and supposedly they are still working on it. It also uses a compression ratio very close to a gasser ratio.

 

[fan of fanboys]

In my case and numbers, I disagree. If I give up both cars in the buyback, I will get around $35k on cars that I spent about $51k on. Yes, I paid sticker on the JSW because they were a rare find in spring of 2010. If I try to replace both cars, I will need around $55k. I typically buy new for two reasons. One, I don't want to deal with someone else's problems. Two, I usually run the wheels off my cars. I know the buyback gives me more than I would get in trade even if dieselgate never happened, I'm just not seeing the rosy pictures others are painting.

so you should get $4k more than you paid on two 6 year old cars?

that is lack of common sense.

also, you can keep the cars you want to run the wheels off and pocket quite a bit of cash and gain some warranty, which I imagine you currently do not have on either on your 6 year old cars

 

[romad]

Why VW killed its TDI diesels in the U.S.: future emission standards

If you take some time to read this article & the accompanying articles linked within it, ..... The future is a lot more clear when it comes to TDI. IF ANY DIESEL Models are ever certified & sold in USA again, they will likely only be larger expensive models, i.e. SUV’s, maybe larger luxury cars (Maybe not) ... BUT>.. CLEARLY There will be NO DIESELS ANYMORE in Golf/Jetta type models. It’s OVER!
.

At least not from the factory. But there are a lot of smart people who have put diesels into cars that weren't designed to be diesel from the factory, so I'm sure if someone wants to put a diesel in a car, they'll do it.

 

[fan of fanboys]

^ and that does not include your 3rd option which is to continue driving your car as is. SInce you have stated yourself you intend to drive until wheels fall of then you are not concerned about resale value. You can keep your cars and your original plan because as of now no state has said if you do not fix they won't allow registration renewal

three pictures, at least one of them is rosy if using common sense

 

[romad]

^ and that does not include your 3rd option which is to continue driving your car as is. SInce you have stated yourself you intend to drive until wheels fall of then you are not concerned about resale value. You can keep your cars and your original plan because as of now no state has said if you do not fix they won't allow registration renewal

three pictures, at least one of them is rosy if using common sense

Except that most likely will NOT be an option in at least some of the CARB states (California, New York, New Jersey, Massachusetts, Maine, Connecticut, Rhode Island, Pennsylvania, Vermont, New Mexico, Oregon, Washington, Maryland, Florida.

It will be either sell the car back to VW or have the fix done. If neither are done, registration will be denied. Since there seems to be a 2 year deadline for these actions to be taken, I would not be surprised to see registration denials start in January 2019.

 

[fan of fanboys]

Except that most likely will NOT be an option in at least some the CARB states (California, New York, New Jersey, Massachusetts, Maine, Connecticut, Rhode Island, Pennsylvania, Vermont, New Mexico, Oregon, Washington, Maryland, Florida.

It will be either sell the car back to VW or have the fix done. If neither are done, registration will be denied. Since there seems to be a 2 year deadline for these actions to be taken, I would not be surprised to see registration denials start in January 2019.

except you nor anyone has any idea about that. it is pure speculation

maybe you will be right, maybe not

but until then just wildly guessing so worthless to mention

 

[DanB36]

Except that most likely will NOT be an option in at least some the CARB states (California, New York, New Jersey, Massachusetts, Maine, Connecticut, Rhode Island, Pennsylvania, Vermont, New Mexico, Oregon, Washington, Maryland, Florida.

If any of those states take any of the settlement funds, they're prohibited from refusing registration for the affected vehicles. And since 44 states have signed on to the proposed settlement, at least some of those states will be in that group.

 

[dslman]

At least not from the factory. But there are a lot of smart people who have put diesels into cars that weren't designed to be diesel from the factory, so I'm sure if someone wants to put a diesel in a car, they'll do it.

I now own 5 TDI's.

Only 2 of them (1998 & 2000) are not involved with Dieselgate.

The other 3 are Dieselgate Mobiles.

I'll sell 2 back & keep the cherry one, I'm all set.

On June 28, All my wishes came true, exactly all 3 options I wanted:

• GRANDFATER OPTION (If I choose, I can just opt out and leave everything as it without worry of blocked Registration in California)
• A simple partial fix that can easily be reversed so I can collect $7000 in Restitution YAY! (CARB PLEASE APROVE ALREADY!)
• Buyback option at nearly what I paid for the car 5 years ago.

Only thing to do now is to hope for CARB To approve the simple FIX so I can collect $7000, then FIX the FIX.

I'm real happy with everything, Thinking about it really doesn't matter if they never sell new Diesel Cars again. I never planned on buying another new CAR ever again anyways even before Dieselgate, I'm already set on that front.

If I live long enough to see an electric vehicle that can go at least 400 miles on a charge & batteries that don't require a mortgage on my house to pay for, AND VERY IMPORTANT: I need to see Electric Vehicles that don't drop 80% of their value in only a few short years.

Only then I MIGHT buy an Electric, but even then it would probably be a USED ONE, so I'll have to live a LONG LONG TIME.


.

 

[2015vwgolfdiesel]

1) You are talking of barely 30% hit for a vehicles over 6 years old, which is quite low. In the normal market (pre disel-gate) your cars would be worth much less than the $35k. If you totaled both your cars tomorrow, no one would pay you $35k.

So VW is paying you UP from the economic value of your cars.

2) The replacement of 6 year old cars from an economic perspective is not two brand new cars. So that comparison is invalid.

Once again, I have no problem with VW paying everyone exactly what they bought their cars for, including taxes and what not. Not money out of my pocket - how do I care.

But no rational company would agree to pay that, and no judge would demand that. Such uneconomic personal preferences are not what settlements are based on. Just setting expectations.

....hmmmmm

VW has little to say about it.

Judge just did what he did.

Part of the price VW is paying is a punishment == and a warning to other evil doers

 

[sandydeb]

It will be either sell the car back to VW or have the fix done. If neither are done, registration will be denied. Since there seems to be a 2 year deadline for these actions to be taken, I would not be surprised to see registration denials start in January 2019.

Assuming there is a fix that VW manages to come up with by then, it will take them years to get cars retrofitted. Once that is complete, the cars may experience SOME decline in power/mileage.

Remember, we are already probably looking at 3-4 years from today, and the owner is still driving a car unchanged from when it was bought. For a 8-9 year plus car then, you have a potentially small mileage/power penalty from there on, and VW would have paid you thousands of $$ to deal with that.

I fail to see how that is worse for the buyer than just driving a 5 year old car to the ground, if that was the original plan anyway.

 

[DanB36]

VW has little to say about it.

VW has quite a lot to say about it, since they have to agree to whatever settlement goes into effect (that's inherent in the nature of a settlement). They're agreeing, so far, because they believe the potential downside of fighting (cost to litigate, even worse PR, possibly higher fines, etc) is worse than what they're agreeing to.

 

[2015vwgolfdiesel]

If any of those states take any of the settlement funds, they're prohibited from refusing registration for the affected vehicles. And since 44 states have signed on to the proposed settlement, at least some of those states will be in that group.

Hi Dan

Let me get this straight -- I live in OKLAHOMA

If OK takes $$$$s == they MUST register my car?

Thanks.

 

[DanB36]

Let me get this straight -- I live in OKLAHOMA

If OK takes $$$$s == they MUST register my car?

With a few stipulations (mainly that your car still has to pass whatever emissions testing OK has been doing, and that there's no reason independent of Dieselgate to refuse registration), yes.

 

[sandydeb]

....hmmmmm

VW has little to say about it.

Judge just did what he did.

The judge has to agree with VW's offer as being reasonable. Class members are free to make their case about why it is not reasonable to the judge.

Just pointing out that a lot of arguments being made are devoid of basic economic rationale and are not likely to get a lot of traction.

 

[dslman]

....It will be either sell the car back to VW or have the fix done. If neither are done, registration will be denied. Since there seems to be a 2 year deadline for these actions to be taken, I would not be surprised to see registration denials start in January 2019.

There will be NO Blocked Registrations on any states that partake in the settlement.

No worries, (Unless you live in New York, Massachusetts or Maryland)

It specifically states in the court documents that any state that participates in the settlement can NOT block owners registrations if the opt out.

PERIOD!

YAY!

California WAS the most likely state to block Registrations, but now they can't do it because not only are they "participating" in the settlement, they're the BIGGEST state getting the MOST Compensation out of the settlement of ANY State!

I can keep my TDI forever and they can't block registration!
HA ha HA!

 

[fan of fanboys]

dslman dropping facts and eliminating lies and ignorance

 

[2015vwgolfdiesel]

With a few stipulations (mainly that your car still has to pass whatever emissions testing OK has been doing, and that there's no reason independent of Dieselgate to refuse registration), yes.

Hi Dan

Oklahoma has had zero testing of any kind for decades. Not even safety checks.

responsible owners look after their ride with care

others ride 'em into the dirt.

We had "safety checks" at gas stations years ago. Cost was about $8 and the service station got $2-3 --- program died for obvious reasons

 

[2015vwgolfdiesel]

dslman dropping facts and eliminating lies and ignorance

Fan of fanboys

dslman is a good guy

play nice please

 

[romad]

except you nor anyone has any idea about that. it is pure speculation

maybe you will be right, maybe not

but until then just wildly guessing so worthless to mention

No, I'm basing it on experience that you don't have as you do NOT live in a CARB state. I, however, have seen how CARB works so it isn't "wildly guessing" but an actual possibility (probability here in California). CARB is one of the reasons I'm getting my property ready for sale so I can move to AZ.

 

[DanB36]

No, I'm basing it on experience that you don't have as you do NOT live in a CARB state.

...and, apparently, on willful ignorance of what the settlement documents actually say.

 

[fan of fanboys]

...and, apparently, on willful ignorance of what the settlement documents actually say.

yeah but the legal documents mean nothing. HE LIVES IN CALIFORNIA!

Those documents obviously do not live in a CARB state

 

[romad]

If any of those states take any of the settlement funds, they're prohibited from refusing registration for the affected vehicles. And since 44 states have signed on to the proposed settlement, at least some of those states will be in that group.

Which is why I said at "least some". However, CARB is crooked enough to take the money, then find some way to either get the prohibition invalidated for California (emissions-wise the state is independent of Federal rules) or failing that weasel around the prohibition!

 

[dslman]

.... CARB is crooked enough to take the money, then find some way to either get the prohibition invalidated for California (emissions-wise the state is independent of Federal rules) or failing that weasel around the prohibition!

That's for sure!

There will be another class action lawsuit, this time against CARB if they try and punish TDI owners in any way for all this BS which has absolutely nothing to do with the Owners of TDI Vehicles.

SCREW YOU CARB! Just try it!