Volkswagen's Clean Air Act violations on 2009+ TDIs spark huge recall, investigations

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2015vwgolfdiesel

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copy and paste Reaters
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Top managers at Volkswagen (VOWG_p.DE) do not expect an agreement before the end of March with U.S. authorities over the German carmaker's rigging of emissions tests, German monthly Manager Magazin reported on Friday, citing company sources.
Negotiations are dragging on because the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency is demanding a long distance test of a technical solution proposed by Volkswagen, the magazine said.
It also said the costs for recalls, buybacks of affected vehicles and compensation of customers would be significantly higher than previously expected.
Volkswagen was not immediately available for comment.
(Reporting by Maria Sheahan and Georgina Prodhan)


Does anyone here believe the EPA is cranking for us owners ?
 

GoFaster

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Came here to post the same thing.

The EPA wants something that is going to work in the long term, and that is a good thing for them, and it is a good thing for owners.

As has been stated numerous times going waaaaay back in this thread ... running a 120,000 mile durability test (quite likely what the EPA wants - and rightly so), takes about 6 months IF nothing goes wrong that forces it to start over from square one.

It is entirely possible that the EPA has taken note of the EGR back-pressure flaps, and the cracked DPFs, and the AdBlue heaters and level sensors.

This is going to take some time!!!
 

Rudyjo

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A word of thanks to my local VW Dealership.
I needed a few parts for a Toyota I own, as the same chain owns both Toyota and VW here in town, I asked VW if it would be possible to order some parts with my $500 VW goodwill dealer card.
There were never any questions asked about why, the whole attitude from the parts manager was " Whatever VW can do to try to make things right with you".
The parts came to $474.

The anger some have should be toward the people at the top of VW who made the decisions. The dealerships, salesmen, parts workers, and mechanics are people who are trying to make a living like all of us.

It's too bad that the "Goodwill" I was shown today does not seem to exist at the top where a few made the decision that making a few more dollars on each car was more important than doing the right thing.
 

Foxfan

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I was at my dealer this morning for my 100K service (oil change, cabin air filter, etc). My service advisor looked over my car and then went to his computer. After a few minutes he came back and said "I recommend that you only do the oil change". When I asked about other services he told me "It would be a waste of money".

I thought this was very interesting because every time I've had my Jetta serviced at the dealer in the past they have always tried to up sell me.
My thoughts on this... the air filters were not in stock and they didn't want to reschedule. :p
 

bubbagumpshrimp

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My thoughts on this... the air filters were not in stock and they didn't want to reschedule. :p
Lol. Yup. It's 1000% more likely that this was the reason for the service persons comments than that particular dealership had inside information on an impending settlement.

Edit: That and air filters are superfluous and just there for decoration. "Woo woo!"
 
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TDILeo

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I found something a little surprising upthread. From the NYT article, TDIs lead at 13.5 per 1,000 of all cars registered from Jan. 2009 to June 2015 in Oregon ...all I ever see around here are Subarus. :)
 

SageBrush

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Well, in a twisted way you can give them "credit" for the Manhattan Project. It was a letter to FDR signed by Albert Einstein that started the ball rolling. If the National Socialist's ideas had not forced Einstein to leave Germany, he would not have been in America.
Einstein was far from the only ex-pat. The Hungarian refugee Edward Teller comes to mind, and Oppenheimer was a first generation child of German Jewish refugees. That is not even close to a complete list.
 

scooperhsd

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Einstein was far from the only ex-pat. The Hungarian refugee Edward Teller comes to mind, and Oppenheimer was a first generation child of German Jewish refugees. That is not even close to a complete list.
The western Allies were not the only ones to benefit from German ex-pats as well.
 

pkhoury

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I ran my 2002 Prius for 11 years and including the battery I put in it before I gave it to my son who totaled it the cost was much lower than the 2009 JSW.
I replaced the inverter electric pump $180.00 and the battery at $1800.
Still got ~ 46 mpg.
The JSW ~40 mpg and well over $4000. in unplanned repairs.
Lucky you. Never got that high on the Prius. What is your average speed though? I think my average when I had the car was 75 on the highway. My repairs on the Prius were around $4000 when the transmission crapped out on me. Toyota Customer Care was less than helpful, and the dealer, even worse. But, you also had a first gen Prius.
 

kjclow

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People think they need the biggest car seat and people think they need to sit as far back as they can. I am over six feet and I can't stand for my arms to be straight to reach the wheel. I sit as straight up as I can and as far forward as I can. This leaves plenty of room behind me for any adult. My wife and I sit in the same seat position, and she is 5' 7". I also don't understand the need to get rid of a car because it only has 2 doors. I raised my kids with 2 doors.
Donald
One thing to keep in mind is the recommended distance from chest to airbag is 10 inches. Too close to the wheel and you could get broken rids, nose, or worse.
 

pkhoury

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I am so glad I can just drive mine and enjoy it. I have more important things to worry about, but this thread is quite entertaining... like "reality" TV. It makes you feel better about your life. :)
Reality TV with a small dose of Jerry Springer at times. For me, it makes me feel good about purchasing my TDI, as I don't truly have any alternatives available.
 

pkhoury

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The person doing the test is just doing his job. BUT, now that we all know ~~ it really ticks me off that citizens (tax payers) have to support this happy talk

The stuff will hit the fan ~~~ if-when the Washington boys dictate 50 state testing

My state Oklahoma now has zippo testing. We did have safety testing 30-35 years ago. Participating gas stations did is for a (too cheap) fee.

Finally the state had so few vendors it just died.
We have safety testing annually here in TX, but it's only 7 bucks. I think they're technically supposed to check under the hood, but nobody in the smaller counties cares. What irritates me when my car was registered in CA was paying $50 a year just so they could record mileage and plug into the OBD2 port. Total waste of money, on top of the $250 or so I paid every year to the DMV, as it doesn't really solve anything. Or, I've known of friends who paid $150-200 to smog shops that do dirty tests (let vehicles sans emissions equipment pass).
 

pkhoury

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That is because those illegals drive around on false driver licenses, carry false ID (or none), give out false addresses, and falsify other things like criminals on the run.
Except illegals can now get legit driver's licenses and other perks that bonafide citizens have in California, like grants to go to college for free. That and CARB were two of the many reasons I left...

Probably 99.44% of TDI drivers carry valid licenses with their actual names, properly register their vehicles to include their addresses, etc. So is it any wonder the Feds would rather come after normal US citizens rather then actually have to do the real work of finding felons, terrorists, etc?
Ironic, isn't it?
 

pkhoury

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No, problem. I accept individual style.

I frequently use ..... when quoting posts to indicate I have deleted parts not applicable to my reply. I don’t know if this is standard punctuation but I have seen it done before. I also sometimes incorrectly place periods outside of quotation marks when it looks better to me that way.

I’m one of easier types to get along with on this forum.
I think it is standard to preface or or end a quote with ... if you delete non-relevant parts out. At least, this is what I did when I wrote my thesis, when I only needed a small line and didn't want a whole paragraph. I try to do the same on here when quoting and don't have a need to include the entire original post.

And apologies for a bunch of consecutive posts - I haven't had a day off all month and am playing catchup on this and other threads.
 

pkhoury

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Go for it! The JSW/Golf makes a great tow vehicle.


I've done ~5500 miles with this setup and not one hiccup.

2015-02-03 17.28.04 by DerekG710, on Flickr
Trailer brakes? And about how much weight? As soon as I can figure out what kind of Class 2 hitch to install and get a brake controller working, I'm fixing to do the same. I'd only be towing about 2800 pounds at most.
 

pkhoury

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Seriously, let's get this thread back on topic to the goats. Bring back the goat pics! :)
I'll post a picture or two (lowered resolution) in a few days. Had 7 kids born this week (1 today), of which 5 are still alive. Also haven't had a day off in about a month.

I've got 10 acres, how many goats do I need to park the lawn mower?
Goats are browsers, not grazers. They only graze out of necessity.

You forgot about the EPA regulations regarding goat feces management, as well as goat flatulence attainment. Heavy fines for violations of those items. ;)
And their flatulence STINKS. Actually heard it for the first time the other day. Probably not far off from the smell in Porter Ranch (smells more like methane though).

It depends on the horsepower rating of the mower.
The average goat is usually about 1/4 HP.
A 2HP mower can be replaced with 8 goats.
Didn't know goats had a HP equivalent. But... I currently have 35 goats in a 13 acre pasture and 10 in an 8 acre pasture, and I still have a brush problem, but due to the grass not being a favorite of my goats (or any goats really). I tried using a Toro mower to mow 3 acres just to see how long it'd take last year - total waste of 2.5 days! Right now, I'm looking at something in the 50-100HP range (and diesel, pre-emissions).

Given the 20+ deer that already wander through the yard, I can't see I'm adding that much to the overall production. Plus I've got woods that need clearing the floor, deer just walk through, goats I know would clear it out nicely.
Depending on the brush, yes. I also have a pet deer as well, so it'll be interesting to see what he eats when he gets older.


You get emissions offset credits for goat milk and cheese production.:cool:
More like property tax credits. I only pay about 40 bucks a year in property taxes for 23 acres.

Is goat milk better than cow's? .....

.....in terms of nutritional value, taste, smell, cost and availability.
Yes, depends on the brand of milk (for taste and smell), no, and most stores carry goat's milk. I like my goat's milk strong and goaty, but the stuff out of my goats tastes just like cow's milk, or better. No joke! As for price, cow's milk is what, like 4 bucks a gallon? Goat's milk is about $16-18 a gallon in the stores. It ain't cheap, when ironically, goats aren't as expensive as cows (until you factor in that all the national brands of goats milk use non-GMO feed, and that's expensive).

Funny we're talking about this in threadzilla. But I guess a deviation is needed once in a while, since we still don't have resolution updates, right?

But it's naturally homogenized and while it still has lactose, is easier to digest than cow's milk and I read somewhere that over 70% of the world population relies on goat's milk. It's just not as popular in the US, as diesel isn't as popular as gasoline.

...Anyway, it seems like people who wind up with a blown goat gut fed their goat hay instead of grass, even though they put a big sign that says "WARNING GRASS ONLY." Stupid people not knowing the difference between grass and hay...
Uhh, it's the same thing, except one is still alive and the other is cut and rolled/baled.
 
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jimbo1mcm

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I was at my dealer this morning for my 100K service (oil change, cabin air filter, etc). My service advisor looked over my car and then went to his computer. After a few minutes he came back and said "I recommend that you only do the oil change". When I asked about other services he told me "It would be a waste of money".
I thought this was very interesting because every time I've had my Jetta serviced at the dealer in the past they have always tried to up sell me.
He probably got his layoff notice.
 

Vidgamer

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Gen 1s are a totally different animal..no AdBlue..a nightmare for engineers.
While the talk of a new converter gave some hopes while back, the more time that passes, the less likely. it seems. Still, that would be great, if they could come up with a technical improvement. Seems unlikely, since the newer cars have been switched to AdBlue, unless it really is an unexpected, new development. It could happen.

Replacing the gen1 system with SCR/AdBlue is unrealistic. Someone suggested recently in this thread that it would be $2000 -- I can't imagine. As someone else posted a while ago, they'd have to replace the instrument cluster just to give us the idiot lights! The exhaust, new converter, tank, hoses, wiring -- it seems like a big job, although I'm not sure how to put a price on it.

There has to be some shred of decency left where we cannot tolerate the continued financial pressure Dieselgate has caused VW's workforce. ...
What did the majority of VWs workforce who are so dependent on VWs sales really know about the NOx cheat ? and... how is that fair to punish blue collar work force for cleverly disguised actions of corporate officials..who now face possible jail time. It's always the little guy that suffers.
First of all, this falls under, "Not everything is under your control." Keep an emergency fund, as you can't depend on your job always being there, regardless of your employer.

Second of all, while I assume that the government is not interested in putting VW out of business or making workers suffer, if some pressure is not put on VW, wher is the incentive for change?

Good luck trying to figure out how to make everything"fair" for everyone.
 

bubbagumpshrimp

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^ Yup. At the end of the day...life is not fair. The only group that will not be significantly impacted by this are the people at the top of the food chain that originally set this train wreck in motion.

When/if VW is punished appropriately, it will be the average workers that feel the bulk of the impact...in the form of lost jobs, lost hours, lost pride, etc. They worked for a company with a good reputation, but they'll be forced to eat the $hit sandwich while their leaders continue to roll in the dough. $hit rolls downhill.
 

Rico567

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Einstein was far from the only ex-pat. The Hungarian refugee Leo Szilard comes to mind, and Oppenheimer was a first generation child of German Jewish refugees. That is not even close to a complete list.
Szilard was really the one who set the ball rolling. He visited Einstein and persuaded him to write a letter to Roosevelt outlining the potential of nuclear energy. I always recommend Richard Rhodes' The Making of the Atomic Bomb on this subject.
The letter was written on August 2, 1939, a month before Germany invaded Poland.
 
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dmarsingill

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One thing to keep in mind is the recommended distance from chest to airbag is 10 inches. Too close to the wheel and you could get broken rids, nose, or worse.
I'm not anywhere near that. My point was, people think they need to drive like they are in a recliner. It's better for your back to sit like you are at a dinner table.

Donald
 

PC Passat

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I had an orthopedic surgeon tell me that the position of sitting in a semi truck is the best for your back. Upright with knees bent and feet on the floor. I know if my back was sore and bending over hurt, by monday afternoon all the pain was gone.
 

2015vwgolfdiesel

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A word of thanks to my local VW Dealership.
I needed a few parts for a Toyota I own, as the same chain owns both Toyota and VW here in town, I asked VW if it would be possible to order some parts with my $500 VW goodwill dealer card.
There were never any questions asked about why, the whole attitude from the parts manager was " Whatever VW can do to try to make things right with you".
The parts came to $474.


The anger some have should be toward the people at the top of VW who made the decisions. The dealerships, salesmen, parts workers, and mechanics are people who are trying to make a living like all of us.

It's too bad that the "Goodwill" I was shown today does not seem to exist at the top where a few made the decision that making a few more dollars on each car was more important than doing the right thing.
I believe you. :) ~~ and at the same time it is un-believable:eek:

I bought my Golf "down the road motors" ~~ mostly because of price. But part of the story on my side the "LOCAL" had zero inventory on the particular car I wanted.
 

Jeta Life

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First of all, this falls under, "Not everything is under your control." Keep an emergency fund, as you can't depend on your job always being there, regardless of your employer.
Second of all, while I assume that the government is not interested in putting VW out of business or making workers suffer, if some pressure is not put on VW, wher is the incentive for change?
Good luck trying to figure out how to make everything"fair" for everyone.
I am honestly getting tired of defending Volkswagen for actions that are beyond our control, you are right. The rule of thumb I was taught is to always have at least 6 months of savings in the event of termination or company bankruptcy. I have not been unemployed since a little before my first daughter was born back in 2002. I've always saved in the event of emergency.
As far as Volkswagen, it has been a sort of love/hate thing with their cars. You love them for their style, performance, fuel economy but hate when the CELs light up the dash, or how their company is managed. Worrying about things beyond our control is senseless at this point. The suspense of what they're going to do next has been frustrating the past 5 months.
I've had my share of issues with this car and just when I brought the car up to date will all required PM, Dieselgate happens. VW has to do something drastic to keep us all as customers for the next go around. They're in a real bind with these 325,000 LNT Gen 1s. And you want to know the real ironic thing is when I bought my TDI certified in 2012, the Passat with AdBlue was staring at me, but that $30,000 price tag.
 

MotoWPK

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Teller was really the one who set the ball rolling. He visited Einstein and persuaded him to write a letter to Roosevelt outlining the potential of nuclear energy. I always recommend Richard Rhodes' The Making of the Atomic Bomb on this subject.
The letter was written on August 2, 1939, a month before Germany invaded Poland.
It wasn't Teller, but Leo Szilard who actually wrote the letter that Einstein signed.
 

2015vwgolfdiesel

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I am honestly getting tired of defending Volkswagen for actions that are beyond our control, you are right.
I have nothing to defend vw for. As a customer I got hurt financially. :mad:


The suspense of what they're going to do next has been frustrating the past 5 months.
YES :mad: YES :mad: YES :mad:

VW has to do something drastic to keep us all as customers for the next go around.
My 2015 Golf was supposed to be my last car. Heck at this point I am not too sure what I will do. Fustrating to the max

And you want to know the real ironic thing is when I bought my TDI certified in 2012, the Passat with AdBlue was staring at me, but that $30,000 price tag.

Price was the only thing going for me from the get-go. MSRP $24,895(?) with healthy discount.
 

Jeta Life

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I have nothing to defend vw for.
Absolutely agreed at this point, I have tired of posting in their defense.

Yeah those small guys at the dealerships are innocent, but their corporation sucks.

I'm tired, this has been way too prolonged. A fix is wishful thinking, doubt EPA would allow the grandfathering of the cars to continue polluting so there's nothing left except a massive buyback for Gen 1s and a fix for Gen 2 & 3 with "generous compensation" for all innocent victims.

We're all innocent, VW guilty.
 

turbobrick240

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It wasn't Teller, but Leo Szilard who actually wrote the letter that Einstein signed.

Good call. Einstein signed the letter and later regretted it. He had no direct participation in the Manhattan Project.
 
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