Volkswagen's Clean Air Act violations on 2009+ TDIs spark huge recall, investigations

[MrSprdSheet]

The law firm filed the lawsuit in the name of an owner of a Mercedes BlueTech diesel car, which was allegedly found to emit dangerous levels of nitrogen oxide (NOx) 65 times higher than permitted when operating in temperatures below 50 degrees Fahrenheit (minus 10 degrees Celsius).
50F = -10C? really? wow!

Exactly. They also don't cite the testing party, so I guess we don't find out if the entire NOx conclusion was during the warm-up cycle. Look, an OEM can afford to put SCR in a diesel whose base price is >50k. Volkswagen would love not to feel alone, but they were the ONLY company looking to push econo diesels in volume, that would even have been tempted to cheat.

The bigger news, from mgt this morning, was about costs "significantly higher than expected", and waiting until late March for a long-distance test. This may basically leak CARB's <2/23 announcement, that this whole debacle is taking even longer to sort out.

My GEN1 is hopeless, and I'm sure I'd bite quick if Feinberg were allowed to make his offer. Right now, I wish I were short VLKAY as the market opens in 5 mins.

There's also this German Prosecutor, looking to jail Porsche's former CEO:
http://www.wsj.com/articles/jail-time-urged-in-vw-takeover-case-1455826033
This was over Germany's own "Big Short".

 

[autdi]

The law firm filed the lawsuit in the name of an owner of a Mercedes BlueTech diesel car, which was allegedly found to emit dangerous levels of nitrogen oxide (NOx) 65 times higher than permitted when operating in temperatures below 50 degrees Fahrenheit (minus 10 degrees Celsius).

50F = -10C? really? wow!

That's how lawyer math works, 110% for me, -10% for you.

 

[minitechnicus]

A good catch !

The law firm filed the lawsuit in the name of an owner of a Mercedes BlueTech diesel car, which was allegedly found to emit dangerous levels of nitrogen oxide (NOx) 65 times higher than permitted when operating in temperatures below 50 degrees Fahrenheit (minus 10 degrees Celsius).
50F = -10C? really? wow!

You are right, a very good catch. I guess I was too upset this morning when I read the news... And I don't think a typo might be the cause, because a 5 F (instead of 50) does not convert to -10 C, it is -15 C

Cheers

 

[miniion26]

It's not really up to you to decide what I, or anyone else NEEDS. If I want to drive a 3/4 ton diesel truck to pull my 13k pound 5th wheel, and you don't like it and think I should pull it with my TDI, then guess who's going to win that argument? Like OH said--I drive my TDI daily as my work vehicle to save money, oil, and the environment, but I drive my truck on weekends and trips...and guess what else--your whining opinion that I, nor anyone else, needs a larger vehicle, means absolutely diddley-squat in the grand scheme of things. So take your condescending attitude and penis insults to the closest Prius forum. Tool.

I have to second that. The same type that tells us"why do you need a 30 rounds mag or an assault rifle".
We don't have to justify"why". As long as it's not against the law, the point is moot.

 

[Jetta Knight]

Enough of VW already! This is my new Sportwagon:

http://www.automobilemag.com/featur...tswagon-is-more-desirable-than-any-crossover/

 

[Torque17]

Cow vs. Goat

You get emissions offset credits for goat milk and cheese production.

Is goat milk better than cow's? .....

.....in terms of nutritional value, taste, smell, cost and availability.

 

[turbobrick240]

Enough of VW already! This is my new Sportwagon:
http://www.automobilemag.com/featur...tswagon-is-more-desirable-than-any-crossover/

Good luck finding that in the state's anytime soon.

 

[St.Hubbins]

Look guys... Michael McKean pops in again with a ridiculous comment and insult. Nice to have you Michael. Please stop back in another 3 days to inject your wisdom into this discussion. We can do without the insults.

i would've thought the absurdity in my post(s) trumped any real potential for hurt feelings - so sorry for my brutal and gratuitous attack!
and c'mon, nearly half of my posts are sincere contributions to "this discussion"

i'm glad we're all free to drive whatever vessel we choose, and don't begrudge anyone their Denali's, Kilimanjaro's, and monster trucks. but like Oilhammer, i can't help but notice these vehicles are hauling lots of stuff/passengers around town pretty rarely. doesn't keep me up at night, but definitely eye roll-worthy... they should've done a sequel to Supersize It on our country's automobile habits!

 

[Jetta Knight]

Good luck finding that in the state's anytime soon.

I can dream. And, it may be here at the same time VW has a resolve for our current dilemma (sure).

 

[romad]

More site wonkiness. Last night a notification email came in for post 20788. This morning I clicked on it to read that post (and later ones), but rather than taking me to post 20788, I was taken to POST 20801! I back paged and was told I had already read posts 20788 through 20800!

The link in the notification emails is supposed to take you to the FIRST UNREAD post in the thread, not mark any remaining unread posts on a page as read then take you to the first unread PAGE!

Edit. When I posted this, the previous post was #20827 but mine has/had #20881! Let's see if editing will change it.

Edit 2. It did.

 

[S2000_guy]

...
I doubt VW is going to get any leniency but allowing for an amendment to the original fix plan frees up some 2015s and 16s for sale and boosts confidence a little at the dealers ?

And it would take the pressure off VW to deal with the gen1 cars, since they'd be back to business as usual at the dealerships. There's profit for VW in selling new cars; dealing with the gen 1 cars will be strictly an expense. Holding up their profits to motivate them to incur the expense is the smart play for the regulators.

 

[kitarkus]

And it would take the pressure off VW to deal with the gen1 cars, since they'd be back to business as usual at the dealerships. There's profit for VW in selling new cars; dealing with the gen 1 cars will be strictly an expense. Holding up their profits to motivate them to incur the expense is the smart play for the regulators.

Agreed. At the expense of sounding cruel...I have no desire to see VW allowed to continue to sell their 2015-2016 TDI's. I cringe at all the VW television ads lately. Unless and until they have addressed my virtually new and within warranty 2013 JSW that I paid $28K for only 2 years ago....I wish them to suffer along. I know all will not agree....but this is the way I feel. I'm getting pissed off.

 

[romad]

The law firm filed the lawsuit in the name of an owner of a Mercedes BlueTech diesel car, which was allegedly found to emit dangerous levels of nitrogen oxide (NOx) 65 times higher than permitted when operating in temperatures below 50 degrees Fahrenheit (minus 10 degrees Celsius).

50F = -10C? really? wow!

Deutsche Welle seems to be using the fired VW engineers for temperature conversions.

50F = 10C

-10C = 14F

 

[DrSmile]

222 diesel cars sold so far this year. Thanks for killing off the entire segment VW!

http://www.nasdaq.com/article/diesel-car-sales-dry-up-20160218-01031

 

[S2000_guy]

Agreed. They were a bit too perfectionist, as someone mentioned above. Not unlike the TDI...when it works, it's great, but when it doesn't work because it's overly complex (HPFP, DPF, etc) it'll leave you stranded on the battlefield, err freeway. I guess not much has changed in 70 years.
If you want to watch something frightening, check out "The Man in the High Castle" on Amazon Prime. Historical fiction by Philip K. Dick about what things would be like if Germany and Japan had won WWII. Scary.

Of course the German war machine's technology was way ahead of the US in the early years of the war: the Germans started re-arming and expanding their military about 1930 while in June 1939 "the roughly 180,000-man U.S. Army ranked 19th in the world--smaller than Portugal’s!" The US population largely believed we could remain isolated from a European war. The Germans had a huge head start.


source for quote:http://www.politifact.com/texas/sta...-army-was-smaller-army-portugal-world-war-ii/

 

[S2000_guy]

And the model year '16 TDI's will be "ready to ship to the dealers" when the EPA grants their certificate of compliance. Until that announcement, don't pay any attention to what someone says they've heard.

 

[JasonCz]

Agreed. At the expense of sounding cruel...I have no desire to see VW allowed to continue to sell their 2015-2016 TDI's. I cringe at all the VW television ads lately. Unless and until they have addressed my virtually new and within warranty 2013 JSW that I paid $28K for only 2 years ago....I wish them to suffer along. I know all will not agree....but this is the way I feel. I'm getting pissed off.

100% agreed.

I don't want VW to go out of business...but I want their punishment for this to hurt enough that they are forced to change their culture, and they never consider fraud as a viable option again.

Unfortunately, the only thing that may be painful enough to accomplish this may be jail sentences for some of the executives who knowingly committed the fraud.

 

[kitarkus]

222 diesel cars sold so far this year. Thanks for killing off the entire segment VW!

http://www.nasdaq.com/article/diesel-car-sales-dry-up-20160218-01031

WOW. Mind blowing. I may have to take a break from the latest news....it's making me angry.

 

[kitarkus]

100% agreed.

I don't want VW to go out of business...but I want their punishment for this to hurt enough that they are forced to change their culture, and they never consider fraud as a viable option again.

Unfortunately, the only thing that may be painful enough to accomplish this may be jail sentences for some of the executives who knowingly committed the fraud.

Respectfully...I don't care whether VW changes their culture. I selfishly want to be made 'whole' so that I can move away from their brand...never to return. Fool me once shame on you...fool my twice shame on me.

 

[mjLyco]

So having a fix worked out by February or March is out... Maybe April? June? 2018?
So sick of waiting.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-volkswagen-emissions-idUSKCN0VS0W9

 

[Jeta Life]

And it would take the pressure off VW to deal with the gen1 cars, since they'd be back to business as usual at the dealerships. There's profit for VW in selling new cars; dealing with the gen 1 cars will be strictly an expense. Holding up their profits to motivate them to incur the expense is the smart play for the regulators.

Gen 1s are a totally different animal..no AdBlue..a nightmare for engineers.

There has to be some shred of decency left where we cannot tolerate the continued financial pressure Dieselgate has caused VW's workforce. While I am disgruntled by my own vehicle's outrageous PM costs (DPF, Turbo), I tolerate it because VW was trying to hit a home run with Common Rail TDIs and instead came up with an infield ground ball seeing eye base hit, or strike-out.

These TDIs have not been the most reliable cars on the road, but I still like them for the quirky sense of appeal and unique nature. Surely the gods must have some sense of humor and not expect us all to drive shamefully depressing econoboxes which despite their better reliability are such boring cars.

Agreed. At the expense of sounding cruel...I have no desire to see VW allowed to continue to sell their 2015-2016 TDI's. I cringe at all the VW television ads lately. Unless and until they have addressed my virtually new and within warranty 2013 JSW that I paid $28K for only 2 years ago....I wish them to suffer along. I know all will not agree....but this is the way I feel. I'm getting pissed off.

I am sorry you feel this way. But the problem then is why should my car dictate what my sense of self esteem should be. Pride and passion used to be qualities we used to have, and although you are in the right, there has to be some leniency, some sense of civility.

What did the majority of VWs workforce who are so dependent on VWs sales really know about the NOx cheat ? and... how is that fair to punish blue collar work force for cleverly disguised actions of corporate officials..who now face possible jail time. It's always the little guy that suffers.

 

[peterdaniel]

WOW. Mind blowing. I may have to take a break from the latest news....it's making me angry.

And the EPA is smiling all the way to the bank... They get their money and get rid of diesels

Think Im gonna drive my '03 TDi even more now..

 

[kitarkus]

I am sorry you feel this way. But the problem then is why should my car dictate what my sense of self esteem should be. Pride and passion used to be qualities we used to have, and although you are in the right, there has to be some leniency, some sense of civility.
What did the majority of VWs workforce who are so dependent on VWs sales really know about the NOx cheat ? and... how is that fair to punish blue collar work force for cleverly disguised actions of corporate officials..who now face possible jail time. It's always the little guy that suffers.

I'm not sure about your deduction from my post. My car does not dictate my self esteem. I am frankly tired of being at the butt end of the stick due to fraudulent companies...whether as customer, shareholder, client or contract employee. Enough is enough. Don't you dare spout that my grievance is in any way the cause of VW employees suffering.

Your rationale...VW should be treated delicately because we wouldn't want their employees to suffer? I understand sticking up for the working/common man...I AM THE WORKING/COMMON MAN. It is not my responsibility to suffer financially and without adequate recourse because of VW's manipulation.

If you are striving for some form of justice for VW employees...you should have expectations that VW should arrange that their employees be adequately cared for and not harmed due to management screwup. Better yet...VW should have thought of their employees prior to making very bad and dangerous manufacturing decisions. You are barking up the wrong tree. It is VW's arrogance that harmed the environment, its employees, its customers, German industry, the automotive industry, and diesel sales in general. Make no mistake...VW dug this hole...and I don't even have a shovel in this game.

 

[bubbagumpshrimp]

And now this:
Top managers at Volkswagen (VOWG_p.DE) do not expect an agreement before the end of March with U.S. authorities over the German carmaker's rigging of emissions tests, German monthly Manager Magazin reported on Friday, citing company sources.
Negotiations are dragging on because the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency is demanding a long distance test of a technical solution proposed by Volkswagen, the magazine said.
It also said the costs for recalls, buybacks of affected vehicles and compensation of customers would be significantly higher than previously expected.
Volkswagen was not immediately available for comment.

I'm amused that they seem surprised that the EPA is expecting a long distance test. Did they seriously expect regulators to just take their word on it at this point?

 

[PFCoppinger]

I wouldn't worry about EPA regulation of your goat emissions...

Shh, I know these guys, and they have goats that are pretty cool. They're a little more expensive than your average Honda lawnmower, but they're for enthusiasts. They are crazy fun to own, especially in the low-end power. They growl, they don't roar. Far more enjoyable than your average-appliance boring Honda mower. Sure, it seems that some of them blow a stomach at random unpredictable times, and those events are punishingly expensive. But that's really rarer than you think, because people only go on the internet to ***** about their goats, not to say how awesome they are. Anyway, it seems like people who wind up with a blown goat gut fed their goat hay instead of grass, even though they put a big sign that says "WARNING GRASS ONLY." Stupid people not knowing the difference between grass and hay.

So these guys say they have a way to keep the EPA happy: they teach the goats to know when the EPA is around, and to hold their farts.

These guys have been out of work since November, and I am pretty sure they would be willing to set you up if you want.

 

[Torque17]

VW's Arrogance

I'm not sure about your deduction from my post. My car does not dictate my self esteem. I am frankly tired of being at the butt end of the stick due to fraudulent companies...whether as customer, shareholder, client or contract employee. Enough is enough. Don't you dare spout that my grievance is in any way the cause of VW employees suffering.

Your rationale...VW should be treated delicately because we wouldn't want their employees to suffer? I understand sticking up for the working/common man...I AM THE WORKING/COMMON MAN. It is not my responsibility to suffer financially and without adequate recourse because of VW's manipulation.

If you are striving for some form of justice for VW employees...you should have expectations that VW should arrange that their employees be adequately cared for and not harmed due to management screwup. Better yet...VW should have thought of their employees prior to making very bad and dangerous manufacturing decisions. You are barking up the wrong tree. It is VW's arrogance that harmed the environment, its employees, its customers, the German industry, the automotive industry, diesel sales in general etc. Make no mistake...VW dug this hole...and I don't even have a shovel in this game.

I agree...it's vw ownership & management's arrogance all the way........that actually blindsided them and like the vw employees, the customers are also in the hole.......I m not a grudge-holder type of guy but in vw's case.....they will pay dearly.

I think a good solution would be that BMW takes over vw and replace all the crooked management policies and culture.

 

[2015vwgolfdiesel]

222 diesel cars sold so far this year. Thanks for killing off the entire segment VW!

http://www.nasdaq.com/article/diesel-car-sales-dry-up-20160218-01031

Good heavens

Who would have guessed VW could kill an entire market niche i. e. ~~ diesel

VW is starting to get me beyond POed. VW is yuckypoo ~~ Just show me the $$$$

 

[bubbagumpshrimp]

Good heavens

Who would have guessed VW could kill an entire market niche i. e. ~~ diesel

VW is starting to get me beyond POed. VW is yuckypoo ~~ Just show me the $$$$

A lot of people (myself included) called that early on. VW has managed to accomplish in just a few months what the EPA was unable to do for the past few decades. It's a shame...

 

[2015vwgolfdiesel]

I'm not sure about your deduction from my post. My car does not dictate my self esteem. I am frankly tired of being at the butt end of the stick due to fraudulent companies...whether as customer, shareholder, client or contract employee. Enough is enough. Don't you dare spout that my grievance is in any way the cause of VW employees suffering.

Your rationale...VW should be treated delicately because we wouldn't want their employees to suffer? I understand sticking up for the working/common man...I AM THE WORKING/COMMON MAN. It is not my responsibility to suffer financially and without adequate recourse because of VW's manipulation.

If you are striving for some form of justice for VW employees...you should have expectations that VW should arrange that their employees be adequately cared for and not harmed due to management screwup. Better yet...VW should have thought of their employees prior to making very bad and dangerous manufacturing decisions. You are barking up the wrong tree. It is VW's arrogance that harmed the environment, its employees, its customers, German industry, the automotive industry, and diesel sales in general. Make no mistake...VW dug this hole...and I don't even have a shovel in this game.

Darn Straight. As far as I am concerned ~~ VW corp ~~ VW Workers ~~ VW stock holders ~~ VW bond holder ~~ debt holders ~~ VW retirees ~~ Take a back seat to my personal finances.

But I am not surprised said group wants to shove us owners in to the pit

 

[2015vwgolfdiesel]

Small world

Just went to a hospital medical procedure

The tech is in the same-same mess . 2015 Jetta diesel

Disturbed about lost resale. Only planed on driving it for 2-3 years.

Oh well......