Volkswagen's Clean Air Act violations on 2009+ TDIs spark huge recall, investigations

[Jimmy Coconuts]

I think it would have been cool if they had Mueller testify instead of Horn. Given his flop with the press...I think the result would have been similar to Jack Nicholson's character flipping out on the stand in 'A Few Good Men'.

Muller would have provided some much needed comic relief for sure. "We did not lie, and you will not laugh...." But to be sure, he is just Ferdinand Piech's hand-picked finger puppet. He's only there to smile for photo ops and put on a show. Piech still pulls the strings. Nothing has changed with this company in terms of structure and leadership at the top.

 

[tadawson]

GM and Honda clearly did not handle the recalls correctly. But they didn't make the make the defective airbags.

VW knowing made defective cars and continued to due so even after the CEO was informed. Then they continued to produce defective cars and continued to deceive CARB and the EPA. VW had control of their situation.

GM and Honda only had control after the airbags were found to be defective.

I disagree! A defect is something that fails, or is not working as per design, causing a problem. The TDI is working exactly as designed . . . a *NON CERTIFIED* design, but still, working flawlessly. Hence, I take exception to the term "defect" . . .

- Tim

 

[KyMoonshine]

If you don't trust the car- don't drive it. I never worried too much about my hpfp before I got a CP3. And I go on 4500 mile road trips every year. Worrying really accomplishes nothing.

Oh I realize how irrational my worrying can be, I wish I could control it, My father suffered the same fate as me, It's just that I have figured out a sort of system where I try to limit the amount of bad things that can and usually do happen to me by taking gambles not in my favor out of the equation.
One of the major reasons I purchased this car was to do a two month cross country trip this year, I have been building myself up for a few years to do it, and I thought this would be the perfect car as I still get around 35 mpg pulling my camper through the mountains. But now after spending days reading on the internet(which I need to just stay off of) I'm now certain I will not be taking this car.
It's just like gambling(I'm not a gambler) for all of us right now, if you leave your house and total your car before you get to work you will now take a significant financial loss, It would be wonderful if I was "wired" so that did not worry me, I truly envy you folks that it don't, and I'm serious about that.
But I have decided today that I am going to dig it out of the snow and drive it the hour commute to work, I'm just going to push my luck and see what happens

 

[haunruh]

You should be adding Power Service to every fill. It's the crap diesel in the US that's causing those HPFP failures.. The high SCAR rating of US diesel is awful compared to everywhere else (Even up here in Canada).. If I owned a CR140 in the US, it would get an additive on every single fillup. No way I'd ever chance that.

Exactly what I do on both my diesels. Haven't had a hickup on my 2003 DMax since new.

 

[2015vwgolfdiesel]

You should be adding Power Service to every fill. It's the crap diesel in the US that's causing those HPFP failures.. The high SCAR rating of US diesel is awful compared to everywhere else (Even up here in Canada).. If I owned a CR140 in the US, it would get an additive on every single fillup. No way I'd ever chance that.

Thanks in advance for any reply

 

[DerekG]

Oh I realize how irrational my worrying can be, I wish I could control it, My father suffered the same fate as me, It's just that I have figured out a sort of system where I try to limit the amount of bad things that can and usually do happen to me by taking gambles not in my favor out of the equation.
One of the major reasons I purchased this car was to do a two month cross country trip this year, I have been building myself up for a few years to do it, and I thought this would be the perfect car as I still get around 35 mpg pulling my camper through the mountains. But now after spending days reading on the internet(which I need to just stay off of) I'm now certain I will not be taking this car.
It's just like gambling(I'm not a gambler) for all of us right now, if you leave your house and total your car before you get to work you will now take a significant financial loss, It would be wonderful if I was "wired" so that did not worry me, I truly envy you folks that it don't, and I'm serious about that.
But I have decided today that I am going to dig it out of the snow and drive it the hour commute to work, I'm just going to push my luck and see what happens

Go for it! The JSW/Golf makes a great tow vehicle.


I've done ~5500 miles with this setup and not one hiccup.

2015-02-03 17.28.04 by DerekG710, on Flickr

 

[paperthin]

anyone else just scan through this thread really fast looking for links to new developments? lol That's me.

Yup...couldn't care less for others commentary.

 

[2015vwgolfdiesel]

Go for it! The JSW/Golf makes a great tow vehicle.


I've done ~5500 miles with this setup and not one hiccup.

2015-02-03 17.28.04 by DerekG710, on Flickr

Great PICs

Thanks

 

[Torque17]

Power Service & Battery

Exactly what I do on both my diesels. Haven't had a hickup on my 2003 DMax since new.

Exactly, I didnt know about the PS cleaner until about a year ago. When I used it, it made such a huge difference in performance. This is while I get diesel for BP (mostly) or shell.

Another observation: what's with vw batteries. For the past 1 year, if the battery is low, the car goes into some sort of dashboard frenzy (a continuous on and off as if something is going to explode). This mostly, from my experience, is an indicative of low battery. On a couple of occasions, when the car was parked for 1.5 days in cold temp days, it didnt start. I had to jump start.

What is wrong with vw batteries - in just 2.5 years of use, they go bad?

 

[NAZ TDI]

Exactly, I didnt know about the PS cleaner until about a year ago. When I used it, it made such a huge difference in performance. This is while I get diesel for BP (mostly) or shell.

Another observation: what's with vw batteries. For the past 1 year, if the battery is low, the car goes into some sort of dashboard frenzy (a continuous on and off as if something is going to explode). This mostly, from my experience, is an indicative of low battery. On a couple of occasions, when the car was parked for 1.5 days in cold temp days, it didnt start. I had to jump start.

What is wrong with vw batteries - in just 2.5 years of use, they go bad?

My Jetta OEM battery lasted just over 4 1/2 years. New one from the dealer was $50 cheaper than anyone else in town and has a two year warranty, where the parts stores are mostly down to one year.

 

[S2000_guy]

VW called the bluff on the EPA's honor system. And here we are.

Which is why VW will get a whopping fine, in addition to the costs of fixing or buying back or whatever they have to do in addition to the whopping fine.

VW called the EPA's bluff and is finding out that the EPA isn't bluffing.

 

[durundal]

Exactly, I didnt know about the PS cleaner until about a year ago. When I used it, it made such a huge difference in performance. This is while I get diesel for BP (mostly) or shell.
Another observation: what's with vw batteries. For the past 1 year, if the battery is low, the car goes into some sort of dashboard frenzy (a continuous on and off as if something is going to explode). This mostly, from my experience, is an indicative of low battery. On a couple of occasions, when the car was parked for 1.5 days in cold temp days, it didnt start. I had to jump start.
What is wrong with vw batteries - in just 2.5 years of use, they go bad?

I had to walk home (I was only a mile and a half away in nice weather fortunately) after discovering this particular piece of German engineering. What I think happens is that when you try to crank it over on a marginal battery the voltage sags, and then this kills the start command without ever actually just letting the starter put out what it can for enough time to actually turn over. Then once the starter is released the voltage recovers immediately (since it was never really drawn down because the load didn't persist), the computer reboots, sees you turning the key, tries to start, dies, reboots, etc etc. I knew my battery was getting on in years and was expecting it to die but thought there would be the more typical slow-crank-to-start indication that something was up and would then go to the auto parts store.

 

[romad]

May I please ask what is an ellipses

three periods in a row like this: ...

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/ellipsis

But based on the definition above it can also be 3 asterisks or 2 em dashes

 

[JohnNS]

You should be adding Power Service to every fill. It's the crap diesel in the US that's causing those HPFP failures.. The high SCAR rating of US diesel is awful compared to everywhere else (Even up here in Canada).. If I owned a CR140 in the US, it would get an additive on every single fillup. No way I'd ever chance that.

Canada's diesel is formulated to Euro standards (so that we can sell there), which is higher than the US. When I was looking in to the HPFP failures I noticed there was almost none in Canada (the ones here tended to be due to other reasons) and less in the more northern states where Canada would sell to.

 

[kitarkus]

I disagree! A defect is something that fails, or is not working as per design, causing a problem. The TDI is working exactly as designed . . . a *NON CERTIFIED* design, but still, working flawlessly. Hence, I take exception to the term "defect" . . .

- Tim

Ah...I see!...thanks for the definition. Could you please define "consumer fraud" for me too?...I'm having trouble with that one. I'm also having trouble with "Bin 5" and "defeat device" and would appreciate your assistance.

 

[jhawklver]

The government has a history of going easy on auto companies even when deceit is proven, often allowing the companies to not only lower their fines but to get away without admitting guilt. Per the latest report from the US Senate:
General Motors (GM). GM’s years-long
cover-up of ignition switch problems in its
vehicles resulted in at least 124 deaths and 275
injuries. But the September 2015 DOJ deferred
prosecution agreement in this case included
a fine for GM ($900 million) that represented
less than one percent of the company’s annual
revenue, held no individual accountable for
the cover-up and included no criminal charges
against any individuals, and suspends the
criminal charges against GM - wire fraud
and false statements - to be dismissed if the
company complies with the agreement.(29) One
critic called this settlement “shamefully weak,”
and University of Virginia Law Professor
Brandon Garrett, said he was “horrified” by
the weakness of the deferred prosecution
agreement.(30)
Note - Honda also had their penalties for the airbag fiasco reduced to just 1% of annual revenue. This issue spanned over a decade, Honda did not fire any employees related to the incident, and the DOJ has declined to press charges.
Any guesses why there is a big shift in attitude towards VW in this issue, considering similar transgressions including fraud, lying the the government and embarrassing a national automotive agency?
Why the strong stance against VW?
These other companies embarrassed the government in similar ways.
Is it due to all of the press and the way the press handled the issue (calling the GM/Honda issue a "recall" while calling VW as cheating)?
Do people expect GM to make faulty products? Is it because it is only one single component (airbag) for Honda?

I haven't looked much into Honda, but for GM and Toyota the DOJ is following the same script. Start the lawsuit very high ($40+ billion) and negotiate down IF the company agrees to deferred prosecution and a number of other things (independent monitor is an example). GM's DOJ settlement was $900 million, Toyota's $1.2 billion. VW isn't getting a much different "stance" than others have. I imagine DOJ is getting sick of auto companies not learning so they may hit VW harder there.

The money above doesn't include over a billion in recalls for Toyota (probably GM too but didn't find the actual number but an article I read said "billions"). It doesn't include compensation programs $600 million in GM's case to victims, nor does it include individual lawsuits of those not joining compensation programs (and since deaths occurred, these were probably millions).

Where VW is going to get nailed compared to those above is the fine from the regulatory agency. Both Toyota and GM got hit with maximum or close by the traffic safety association. They have a cap of $37 million, Toyota was fined for two separate issues (totally $66 million) and GM paid the full $37 million. The EPA fines are different and are per car and another one per day.

My guess is if VW plays ball like Toyota and GM did (after the DOJ lawsuit, non of them played ball at first), the DOJ fine will be somewhere close to Toyota's... but probably more because VW didn't learn from GM or Toyota, and the DOJ is likely to want to make an example out of them and Toyota/GM fine wasn't enough to stop VW doing what it did. Guessing here but $2-3 Billion.

VW is not getting vastly different treatment from the DOJ yet. They are on the hook for more fines from the regulatory agency because that agency can fine much more than the NHTSA can.

 

[RedBug]

I've been reading this thread on a regular basis and have come to a couple of simple conclusions.

1. There is no end to the chaos that we create for ourselves as we try to come to some kind of logical conclusion as to the future of our cars.
2. We will eventually have a resolution to this issue.

Should we expect VW to buy back our cars?
Should we expect VW to fix the cars?
Should we be expecting anything?

I have absolutely no idea. I do know that an investment group is now sueing VW for loss in value. Http://autolinedaily.tv

The soap opera continues...

 

[romad]

Should we be expecting anything?

Yes: death and taxes! The ONLY sure things in life.

 

[RedBug]

Yes: death and taxes! The ONLY sure things in life.

How true...

 

[Rico567]

May I please ask what is an ellipses

Some dots, e.g.: ...

 

[KyMoonshine]

I would just sell it. You should be able to unload it pretty quickly. If you don't trust a car....it's time to get rid of it.
Donald

Donald my luck is so bad that whomever I sold it to now would get a Voucher for a new car, gold toilet seat and a Awesome trained goat named Bob from Volkswagen in two months from now.
I would also "Drive more and Worry less" if I hadn't already cleared about three P0087 codes from this car already, one 900 miles from home, nothing makes your heart jump like a flashing Glow plug light that far from home.

 

[bobgolf2004]

lemon law claim

A guy in Florida obtained a ruling that VW must buy back his TDI under Florida's lemon law due to the emissions issue.

http://www.abcactionnews.com/news/f...ing-hearing-over-volkswagen-emissions-scandal

Just the tip of the iceberg?

 

[coolbreeze]

So I am been seriously considering getting a TDI after 5 years without. Really miss my 09 Jetta Sportwagen. Can't seem to find any 2016's at my local dealers. Must be selling well. Anyone have one for sale? wink

Actually all kidding aside I am buying a 2011 Golf TDI next week at a screaming deal. Excited!

 

[Jeta Life]

You sir are delusional if you think this is a true statement. The only thing VW has shown is they are trying to let the clock run. the goodwill program was the first start, after that what has happened? a small PR blrub by Fienstine? After that nothing.
If they truly were trying to make it right they'd be full disclosing everything they are submitting to CARB EPA about a potential fix.

The reason I remain delusional about the Volkswagen Dieselgate situation is that it gives me a sort of imagined comfort zone and that one day I will wake up to good news, like VW came up with an easy fix that can be performed quickly with minimal invasive surgery.

The stall tactics VW have employed since May 2014 are getting a little ridiculous at this point. Day by day these cars are getting junked through crashes, HPFP explosions, export overseas, wear and tear, etc. More and more time means less and less cars they have to worry about.

I'm guessing the main reason EPA is playing hardball with VW is they are settling for nothing less than an AdBlue fix or a buyback. When Feinberg was hired I thought things would get rolling, but even he is at the mercy of the EPA who has rejected the unreleased proposed fix presented by Matthias Muller behind closed doors. Rumors at the time were it would be an easy swap out fix replacing our LNTs with Mullite ones, but it appears that got rejected.

There is no way VW is going to pull off a complicated retrofit with AdBlue to Gen 1s. Perhaps an invention such as a new fluid or converter cooked up in a Wolfsburg laboratory would be blockbuster type of news but I'm not going to hold my breath for that. I'll continue driving the TDI and filling up at busy truck stop type gas stations where I know the diesel is fresh and turns over daily, but even then you never know.

Who really knows anything anyway, we're here today and should try and continue to enjoy these cars.

 

[gene r]

So I am been seriously considering getting a TDI after 5 years without. Really miss my 09 Jetta Sportwagen. Can't seem to find any 2016's at my local dealers. Must be selling well. Anyone have one for sale? wink

Actually all kidding aside I am buying a 2011 Golf TDI next week at a screaming deal. Excited!

Me, I am pleased to have an extended warranty. The high pressure fuel pump blew out 2 days ago, at only 60,000 miles also damaging the injectors. My son was on the fwy at 70 mph in traffic. The car simply failed on him. He could have been killed. VW dealer says it is a $5,000 repair, seems high but warranty is paying. Dealer says it is a common failure. Add to that the DPF at $3,500 you have $8500 worth of repairs on a $24,000 car at only 60k miles! This is the worst reliable car with greatest repair costs I have ever owned. I would not wish a TDI on anyone. I'm hoping mine gets bought back.

 

[ccbsecu]

A guy in Florida obtained a ruling that VW must buy back his TDI under Florida's lemon law due to the emissions issue.

http://www.abcactionnews.com/news/f...ing-hearing-over-volkswagen-emissions-scandal

Just the tip of the iceberg?

Interesting...and good for him!!

 

[autdi]

A guy in Florida obtained a ruling that VW must buy back his TDI under Florida's lemon law due to the emissions issue.

http://www.abcactionnews.com/news/f...ing-hearing-over-volkswagen-emissions-scandal

Just the tip of the iceberg?

Probably not, but depends on state lemon laws. MI you have 1 year from the date of purchase to have attempted 3 repairs or 30 days at the dealer without a repair being made to file. That ironically puts just about everything except the gen 3 cars beyond the date to file, given the conjecture that the gen 3 is the easiest to fix. I know I bought one of the last 2014 Beetles on the lot, and the story broke after the year was up.

 

[PaulN]

Regarding Horn's subcommittee appearance transcript...

This part: Mr. Murphy to Mr. Horn after oath...

421 Let the record show the witness answered yes. You are now
422 under oath and subject to the penalties set forth in Title 18,
423 Section 1011 of the United States Code.
424 You may now give a 5-minute summary of your written
425 statement.

What is Title 18 section 1011?

18 U.S. Code § 1011 - Federal land bank mortgage transactions

Whoever, being a mortgagee, knowingly makes any false statement
in any paper, proposal, or letter, relating to the sale of any mortgage,
to any Federal land bank; or

Whoever, being an appraiser, willfully over-values any land securing such mortgage—

Shall be fined under this title* or imprisoned not more than one year, or both.

*Amended 1994—Pub. L. 103–322 substituted “fined under this title” for
“fined not more than $5,000” in last par.

Anyone have a clue what that is about?

 

[2015vwgolfdiesel]

My Jetta OEM battery lasted just over 4 1/2 years. New one from the dealer was $50 cheaper than anyone else in town and has a two year warranty, where the parts stores are mostly down to one year.

On my ol' 2003 GSL gasser at a new VW dealer was $200 +

Got one at SAMs for ~~ $129

 

[jimbo1mcm]

Me, I am pleased to have an extended warranty. The high pressure fuel pump blew out 2 days ago, at only 60,000 miles also damaging the injectors. My son was on the fwy at 70 mph in traffic. The car simply failed on him. He could have been killed. VW dealer says it is a $5,000 repair, seems high but warranty is paying. Dealer says it is a common failure. Add to that the DPF at $3,500 you have $8500 worth of repairs on a $24,000 car at only 60k miles! This is the worst reliable car with greatest repair costs I have ever owned. I would not wish a TDI on anyone. I'm hoping mine gets bought back.

Got warranties on both my 2015 TDI's. I sleep well at night.