New Caddy Alltrack that we in North America can't have...

[BeetleGo]

http://www.autoblog.com/2015/09/13/vw-caddy-alltrack-frankfurt-official/

 

[1998993C2S]

... Golf chassis based Caddy 5-door

My folks have the VW Caddy 5-door with a 1.6l or 1.8 diesel. Their Caddy is based on an older MkV chassis I think . . Anyway, its a roomy, efficient, did I mention specious, 5 seat'er with a cavernous cargo area. The exterior is the Platinum Grey metallic (same as my USA TDI) and the interior with a uber sturdy/attractive textured fabric. The plastics are similar if not the same as my MkV Jetta TDI's - that is high quality.

I'd think the Caddy would be a bases loaded Grand Slam hit in the US market. I see the like kind Ford of Germany little van on the roads of Atlanta plenty..
Just look around, Ford of Germany vans of several sizes are running around.

VW snap out of it .... The present day VW Caddy of Germany would be a hit, both as a fleet vehicle or dressed up passenger 5-door

 

[nokivasara]

How's that different to the cross Caddy? Caddy X or whatever it was named as...

http://www.topspeed.com/cars/volkswagen/2013-volkswagen-cross-caddy-ar135071.html

http://www.carmag.co.za/road_test/long-term-introduction-volkswagen-cross-caddy-20-tdi/

 

[fxk]

Doesn't really matter. US will never see it. Might have given the Transit Connect, as well as the RAM, Chevy and MB transporters a run.
Oh well. Too late. VW has no vision. Instead we get a re-badged Chrysler Minivan. Really? And didn't even get the sto-n-go second row seating.
And we'd never see the stick or diesel anyway, just as we don't have the six-speed manual and the diesel in the Transit Connect either.
frank

 

[LRTDI]

The Caddy sized vehicle is a giant hole in the US marketplace. There is a real opportunity for a vehicle in this size group.

I've driven VW Sharan, Ford Smax and latests generation Citroen C4 Grand Picasso. Perfect sized vehicles without being oversized.

 

[frugality]

I'd think the Caddy would be a bases loaded Grand Slam hit in the US market.

The Caddy sized vehicle is a giant hole in the US marketplace. There is a real opportunity for a vehicle in this size group.

I don't agree with either of those comments. The market for those vehicles as personal vehicles is minimal. Look at how poorly the Mazda5 sold, and look at how few Ford Transit Connects are bought as personal vehicles. The only real market is for businesses, like geek squads, flower delivery shops, and cable company work vehicles. And those companies look for low price, low cost of operation, and easy to service at local domestic auto dealers.

Mercedes has taken a risk on this minuscule market and brought something interesting over -- the Metris van. About mini-van sized, with a 2.0T. Available in Europe in Westfalia-style camper versions. I'd love one of those, although price would likely be too high for me. I'd be tempted to get a passenger version and convert it into a homemade RV. However, you can only buy it at Mercedes Truck dealers, and those are few and far between, so I wonder about getting one of these Metrises serviced.

http://www.mbvans.com/sprinter/commercial-vans/metris-passenger-van
http://www.caranddriver.com/mercedes-benz/metris

 

[fxk]

Just up at the Baltimore Auto show. A white, short wheelbase Transit Connect panel van was the only TC on the floor. Gee, wonder why the passenger wagon sells poorly?
The truth is marketing and availability combined to lure a customer base. Ford wants to promote it as the un-minivan. Gotta see one to sell one.
Manufacturers seem to starve a supply line, then complain of poor sales.

 

[frugality]

The truth is marketing and availability combined to lure a customer base.

You can't market ugly.

In similar news, I don't see many Ford C-Maxes on the road at all, and I'm in Michigan, which tends to buy domestic in this car-centric state. The C-max is a lot like the Golf Plus and other 'tall' wagon/cars, and they just don't sell well here. They're seen as dorky. Practical, but unsightly. Again, I point to the Mazda5, another scarce vehicle. No marketing and product placement can do much for homely cars. I think it's a great practical car, but we're in the minority here. TDIclub does not represent the N.A. market well, and VW's marketers have a much better understanding of this than armchair TDIclub marketing gurus.

 

[atc98002]

You can't market ugly.
In similar news, I don't see many Ford C-Maxes on the road at all, and I'm in Michigan, which tends to buy domestic in this car-centric state. The C-max is a lot like the Golf Plus and other 'tall' wagon/cars, and they just don't sell well here. They're seen as dorky. Practical, but unsightly. Again, I point to the Mazda5, another scarce vehicle. No marketing and product placement can do much for homely cars. I think it's a great practical car, but we're in the minority here. TDIclub does not represent the N.A. market well, and VW's marketers have a much better understanding of this than armchair TDIclub marketing gurus.

I considered the C-Max, but the battery for both the hybrid and Energi models took far too much cargo space. With the Energi, I wasn't sure there was room for more than a couple of grocery bags. I mean, it was small. It drove nice, but with the lack of cargo space and feeling a touch cramped in the seating area, it just wasn't worth swapping the Tiguan. I don't regret at all going with the Passat, but I do miss the higher seating position of the Tig. Now waiting to see if one or both of the new VW CUVs come with either diesel or hybrid powertrains. I'm not going back to 22 MPG...

 

[fxk]

You can't market ugly.

I beg to differ. SUVs being one: big-on-the-outside, small-on-the-inside butt-ugly, yet they sell like hotcakes. The cars at the auto show were so much the same, I had a hard time recognizing I went from one brand to another. Carpet color at the hall helped. One ugly car after another with different nameplates.

Big, flashy, and impractical sell. One reason cars get the higher dissatisfaction scores was because the car did not have the cachet the owners thought it would. In this day and age, you have to work at marketing different.

Just my opinion. YMMV.

frank

 

[nokivasara]

I beg to differ. SUVs being one: big-on-the-outside, small-on-the-inside butt-ugly, yet they sell like hotcakes. The cars at the auto show were so much the same, I had a hard time recognizing I went from one brand to another. Carpet color at the hall helped. One ugly car after another with different nameplates.

Big, flashy, and impractical sell. One reason cars get the higher dissatisfaction scores was because the car did not have the cachet the owners thought it would. In this day and age, you have to work at marketing different.

Just my opinion. YMMV.

frank

I agree, it's not the looks that makes a car sell, it's the need. The marketing departments made a very good job in creating a need for the SUV's

Cars like Chrysler Voyager and other of that type did the same job as the SUV's, only better, but suddenly they were out of fashion...

I'm sure a small van would sell in NA, we have lots of them on the roads and not only as company vans for painters, carpenters etc but ordinary folks too. Quite a few of todays truck-owners could be driving a small van instead, with the right marketing

 

[frugality]

I know plenty of guys -- and not too few women, either -- who refuse to drive minivans. I agree, minivans are extremely practical. They're also big boxes with ponderous handling, occupy a lot of space when parking, and look very un-cool. The only minivan that looks remotely attractive is the new Kia Sedona.

Anyone who thinks that it's not looks that sell cars is out of touch with reality. Passion is more of a factor in people's car-buying decisions than practicality. If I could live with practicality only, I'd be driving a Subaru. But I just can't do it. I love my Dubs. This has nothing to do with marketing. This has everything to do with good design and a good product. I love VW's interiors most of all, clean and classy and ergonomic. I love the clean exterior styling. (may folks consider it 'boring') Good design sells itself. That's Apple's key cornerstone. Does Apple do some marketing hype? Sure. But largely, the products are so high-quality and functional that they sell themselves. And Apple can demand high premiums. Anyone who thinks marketing drives things just has to look at the Apple Watch. Lots of hype. Few people want it.

A good product will virtually sell itself, and marketing is there only to get the product in front of the people. If marketing puts a poor product in front of people, people don't buy it. Ronco rotisserie ovens and ab machines are one thing. There is a market for suckers for things like that. But few people are marketed into a car they didn't really want. And if they did, after one SUV there'd be a swing back to smaller, more practical cars. But we haven't seen that. People by and large want SUVs. The swing-back that we're seeing is that people realize they don't really need a truck-style SUV, and are going back to crossovers which are oversized lifted wagons. (think Outback or Santa Fe) Which go back to the original Jeep Grand Cherokee. That vehicle took no marketing at all. It was a cool design (based on the old AMC Eagle Wagons, they even came in woodies like the Eagle wagons), lifted up and made more off-road-ish.

Hey, you want another example of how marketing doesn't work?: Aztek. The concept car looked cool. The actual car looked like crap. A few people bought it because they still dug the fact that you could put your mountain bike in back, or add a tent and camp out of it. No matter how good the marketing, the car stunk and people in general didn't buy it. And really it was on GM's minivan platform. It had all of the practicality, but none of the passion. And people didn't buy it. And now it's on the most-ridiculed-vehicle list.

Good products sell.

 

[LRTDI]

I forgot about the Cmax. Ridden in the new generation that you cannot get in the USA. Interestingly thanks to the Euro model's seven seat configuration, it had the same battery bump as you see on the Hybrid.

The new Gen, even though it has sliding rear doors (!), is a far better external design than the old generation what we still have in the USA. That Euro version was a three cylinder stick shift with stop start. With Five on board and luggage it had no trouble moving along.

There is a market at this size point. The Mazda 5 is "nasty" as a friend who owns one describes it.

People aren't looking for cheap and nasty like Pontiac Aztec's or Mazda 5s. Show and tell a quality feeling and looking product and it will sell.

 

[Mike_04GolfTDI]

I'd think the Caddy would be a bases loaded Grand Slam hit in the US market. I see the like kind Ford of Germany little van on the roads of Atlanta plenty..
Just look around, Ford of Germany vans of several sizes are running around.

Would it still be a grand slam without the diesel engine? In the US it would be a gasser for sure.

 

[fxk]

Would it still be a grand slam without the diesel engine? In the US it would be a gasser for sure.

Maybe a home run with two men on... I could live with a gasser especially if it had a manual tranny...
I'd have a Transit Connect now if I could shift it...

 

[NSTDI]

I know plenty of guys -- and not too few women, either -- who refuse to drive minivans. I agree, minivans are extremely practical. They're also big boxes with ponderous handling, occupy a lot of space when parking, and look very un-cool. The only minivan that looks remotely attractive is the new Kia Sedona.

Anyone who thinks that it's not looks that sell cars is out of touch with reality. Passion is more of a factor in people's car-buying decisions than practicality. If I could live with practicality only, I'd be driving a Subaru. But I just can't do it. I love my Dubs. This has nothing to do with marketing. This has everything to do with good design and a good product. I love VW's interiors most of all, clean and classy and ergonomic. I love the clean exterior styling. (may folks consider it 'boring') Good design sells itself. That's Apple's key cornerstone. Does Apple do some marketing hype? Sure. But largely, the products are so high-quality and functional that they sell themselves. And Apple can demand high premiums. Anyone who thinks marketing drives things just has to look at the Apple Watch. Lots of hype. Few people want it.

A good product will virtually sell itself, and marketing is there only to get the product in front of the people. If marketing puts a poor product in front of people, people don't buy it. Ronco rotisserie ovens and ab machines are one thing. There is a market for suckers for things like that. But few people are marketed into a car they didn't really want. And if they did, after one SUV there'd be a swing back to smaller, more practical cars. But we haven't seen that. People by and large want SUVs. The swing-back that we're seeing is that people realize they don't really need a truck-style SUV, and are going back to crossovers which are oversized lifted wagons. (think Outback or Santa Fe) Which go back to the original Jeep Grand Cherokee. That vehicle took no marketing at all. It was a cool design (based on the old AMC Eagle Wagons, they even came in woodies like the Eagle wagons), lifted up and made more off-road-ish.

Hey, you want another example of how marketing doesn't work?: Aztek. The concept car looked cool. The actual car looked like crap. A few people bought it because they still dug the fact that you could put your mountain bike in back, or add a tent and camp out of it. No matter how good the marketing, the car stunk and people in general didn't buy it. And really it was on GM's minivan platform. It had all of the practicality, but none of the passion. And people didn't buy it. And now it's on the most-ridiculed-vehicle list.

Good products sell.

Frugality, I agree with a lot you said, but with a few comments:

They're also big boxes with ponderous handling, occupy a lot of space when parking, and look very un-cool. Isn't that an SUV or 4 door pickup?

The swing-back that we're seeing is that people realize they don't really need a truck-style SUV, and are going back to crossovers which are oversized lifted wagons. Isn't that the Aztec? It was the first "crossover" a word invented to be a cool way not to be driving a "station wagon" or a "mini van". The Aztec is ugly, but so is the Venza, BMW X4, Honda Crosstour, all knockoffs of the Aztec. Aztec was the first "crossover", it was a poorly made ugly thing, but it was a crossover.

I think SUV's and 4 door pickups are "the cool thing" today (I don't want one though) and cheap gas is keeping them on the road. But the weight and fuel economy, plus the sheer size of these things will eventually catch up with them. Diesel is now screwed again due to "cheatgate" IMHO, there will be no political motivation to allow more diesels to be sold in North America. My guess is we will be seeing newer, more powerful, and light batteries with longer range and electric and hybrid will take over as the "cool" thing to have. Check out who owns a Tesla.

Good marketing will sell things, but not if people don't want them (Apple Watch), or if the quality is crap (Aztec). Repeat business is where it's at over the long haul.

The Caddy or Mazda 5 needs to be marketed with a cool new word, it can't be called a "mini van". Maybe the Eco Family Pod, something along those lines? With seating for more than 5 which is very rare, it could be a winner.