NHTSA Update on CR HPFP failure investigation

[StayPuff]

I'm no expert, but I have been told that a new (not rebuilt) HPFP by itself can be had for anywhere between about $350-400 to about $900 depending on who you buy it from.



This is true unless/until 2micron's fuel system modifications are installed (see my sig below). I have them installed on my car. If/when my HPFP self-destructs, all I will have to do is to replace the HPFP, 2 fuel filters, and a few feet of fuel lines. It should cost well under $1000 to fix (unless I add a timing belt replacement at the same time).

Have Fun!

Don

Yep! I have Andrew's complete 2micron system with filter and gauge......and his timing belt guard. Just haven't got around to installing it all yet. Kinda glad, I'll be waiting now to see what happens with the emissions debacle.

 

[ericy]

This is true unless/until 2micron's fuel system modifications are installed (see my sig below). I have them installed on my car. If/when my HPFP self-destructs, all I will have to do is to replace the HPFP, 2 fuel filters, and a few feet of fuel lines. It should cost well under $1000 to fix (unless I add a timing belt replacement at the same time).

Isn't it the case that the injectors will get crud in them from the fuel pump? Won't those need to be replaced, or can they be cleaned?

 

[JBell]

Isn't it the case that the injectors will get crud in them from the fuel pump? Won't those need to be replaced, or can they be cleaned?

If you have the 2Micron kit installed, the injectors should be fine. Along with the filters catching debris going through the return line and into the tank.

 

[JSWTDI09]

Isn't it the case that the injectors will get crud in them from the fuel pump? Won't those need to be replaced, or can they be cleaned?

There are 2 parts to the 2micron system. One part protects the fuel tank, aux pump and all the other parts in the low pressure part of the system (this is the "contain flow" part). The other half of 2micron's system (the "pure flow" part) protects the high pressure part of the fuel system. This includes the fuel rail, pressure regulator, fuel lines, and the injectors. If both halves of Andrew's system is installed, the entire fuel system is protected except for the filters themselves which do their job.

Have Fun!

Don

 

[Lightflyer1]

Run optilube and don't worry about the HPFP issue.

People using additives have had failures too. Optilube is not a secret fix for this. Use it if you like but don't think it protects you from a failure necessarily.

 

[Mrrogers1]

People using additives have had failures too. Optilube is not a secret fix for this. Use it if you like but don't think it protects you from a failure necessarily.

How many every single tank religious users have failures reported? I'm not saying there have been zero, there are so many posts and one can't truly keep track of everyone but I don't recall any religious users having issues. We know the fuel quality being hit or miss and the fragile pump just compounds the issue so adding lubricity is our only preventative maintenance (*in a bottle).

Going back to the EU versions of our car, they have the same HPFP and they seem to magically be far less prone, than our actually low rates, of failure.

As always, YMMV but I'll keep added preventative maintenance and drive more and worry less.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

 

[Lightflyer1]

How many every single tank religious users have failures reported? I'm not saying there have been zero, there are so many posts and one can't truly keep track of everyone but I don't recall any religious users having issues. We know the fuel quality being hit or miss and the fragile pump just compounds the issue so adding lubricity is our only preventative maintenance (*in a bottle).

Going back to the EU versions of our car, they have the same HPFP and they seem to magically be far less prone, than our actually low rates, of failure.

As always, YMMV but I'll keep added preventative maintenance and drive more and worry less.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

There were a few IIRC that claimed religious use. We aren't talking large numbers here anyway. If Europe is "magically far less prone" but still has them, then higher quality fuel and/or additives still aren't stopping them. I am also not saying additives don't do anything at all. They may do many things but it still doesn't guarantee they will protect you 100%. Remember that it hasn't been proven what the issue is, it is only thought to be lubricity related. As always if you want to use an additive, do. If not don't. Most diesel sold around me has some bio component mixed in already so I never worried about it.

 

[RomanDiesel]

I had a HPFP failure, at 296000km. Almost always i bought diesel from Esso, without problems; exceptions: when I am far away... I bought the car @ 103000km and I am the only one who fill the tank since I have the car. I used fuel additive get from VW dealership counter, but not always during the summer.
In Europe, same car exhaust gas will smell like an ALH, almost. I believe that they have another car tuning, other than different fuel. In Europe, diesel fuel is out of refinery after the gas is out of the crude oil. May explain why "we have gas in diesel tank"!?! I never misfueled a car, and I'm not so young!
In my case, is something that I don't understand: "very extremely" low amount of metal particles in the fuel filter, the HPFP was full of, even the diesel inside the pump had another color. No metal in CR... I will change only the pump, the rest I will clean, to be sure. And, of corse: 2micron. I did not know about before failure !!!

 

[ben2mx]

There were a few IIRC that claimed religious use. We aren't talking large numbers here anyway. If Europe is "magically far less prone" but still has them, then higher quality fuel and/or additives still aren't stopping them. I am also not saying additives don't do anything at all. They may do many things but it still doesn't guarantee they will protect you 100%. Remember that it hasn't been proven what the issue is, it is only thought to be lubricity related. As always if you want to use an additive, do. If not don't. Most diesel sold around me has some bio component mixed in already so I never worried about it.

Is it recommended to use bio-blend to improve lubricity?

 

[Scratcher]

Is it recommended to use bio-blend to improve lubricity?

I think the majority of states have 5% without the need to disclose. Illinois can go up to 20% without disclosure. All this info came from my local dealership who had two failed pumps from Illinois both running bio blend. There have been a few failures with bio blend so, as has been said. " it doesn't guarantee it will protect you 100%"

 

[JBell]

I think the majority of states have 5% without the need to disclose. Illinois can go up to 20% without disclosure. All this info came from my local dealership who had two failed pumps from Illinois both running bio blend. There have been a few failures with bio blend so, as has been said. " it doesn't guarantee it will protect you 100%"

I was all over VW about this when I first bought my 2012 Jetta and was living in Illinois. At the time, the manual stated that we could ONLY use up to B5.

It is now permissible to run up to B20 in states where Bio is highly incentivized. This is clearly stated in my 2016 Touareg manual.

 

[Diesl]

I was all over VW about this when I first bought my 2012 Jetta and was living in Illinois. At the time, the manual stated that we could ONLY use up to B5.
It is now permissible to run up to B20 in states where Bio is highly incentivized. This is clearly stated in my 2016 Touareg manual.

Every owner of an older car got a letter from VW.

 

[Mr. Pink]

Every owner of an older car got a letter from VW.

makes me wonder if it were only original owners whom got this? I bought my 2010 in August with 98k on it and reading through this thread has me wondering if i should get my HPFP checked out/replaced.

 

[Diesl]

makes me wonder if it were only original owners whom got this? I bought my 2010 in August with 98k on it and reading through this thread has me wondering if i should get my HPFP checked out/replaced.

Oops, sorry, every owner in Illinois, where it's difficult to get 5% or lower Biodiesel.

 

[Mr. Pink]

Oops, sorry, every owner in Illinois, where it's difficult to get 5% or lower Biodiesel.

ahh ok.

 

[STRANGETDI]

In case this wasn't posted yet, this appears to be the conclusion of the investigation:

http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/acms/cs/jaxrs/download/doc/UCM475595/INCR-EA11003-61863.pdf

 

[Second Turbo]

in the wider context...

Thanks for posting that link to INCR-EA11003-61863.

They could, of course, have more simply stated the
REASON FOR CLOSING as:
The affected vehicles are all going to be recalled for a more important problem, and crushed or resold in Elbonia.

 

[tadawson]

But then again, that would be total BS, so they didn't . . .

 

[compu_85]

Am I right in interrupting the graphs on page 21 - that there was a much higher failure rate on the early pumps, but production changes make them fail much less often by 2012?

-J

 

[ATR]

Am I right in interrupting the graphs on page 21 - that there was a much higher failure rate on the early pumps, but production changes make them fail much less often by 2012?

-J

I think it has more to do with simply a factor of age more than anything else.

 

[murphyslaw]

I love how the report showed gasoline contamination up to and over 50% did not cause any issues with the pump. But since they added the misfuel guard, There has been less failures. And if they even think there is ANY amount of gas in the fuel they deny the HPFP repairs.

 

[frugality]

Am I right in interrupting the graphs on page 21.....

You are free to interrupt.

And you are free to blame auto-correct.

 

[kjclow]

As I've said all along, no one got hurt, so no action.

 

[vwmk4]

As I've said all along, no one got hurt, so no action.

AMEN to that.

 

[MRO1791]

Reading the report, as an Engineer, and in light of other deceptions by VW.. Here are salient points that are exposed:

- VW flat out miscalculated mis-fuel the central issue, by a factor of 10.. that is outrageous.

- The before and after failure rates with the idiotic mis-fuel guard are statistically unchanged.

- There is a high failure rate, and a vehicle test by VW with an intentional defect on the HPFP roller was run for 23 hours, but had a near instant engine fault, and went to limp mode (this VWs attempt to deny sudden power loss, thus safety issue, but it also shows how any defect in the HPFP causes a near instant power loss).

- It has been clear that VW is well aware a large number of failures are NOT from mis-fuel, yet the freely continue to tell the customer, they are WRONG. This should not be excused. It is outrageous.

This report does not deny there is a problem, in fact it basically proves there IS a problem.. but it says no evidence yet of an accident due to this failure. It also says they are continuing to monitor the situation.

Now, full disclosure, I DUMPED my 2012 TDI, when I dug into the engineering issues of the HPFP, and had metal in my filter, only to have VW tell me it was OK, and charge me to look at it, under WARRANTY. In this report they show a VW provided picture of the fuel filter, mine was not quite as bad, but did have metal particles.. in sharp contrast with my Diesel truck filter with many more miles, and MANY more gallons of fuel through it. This HPFP is way too sensitive to fuel lubricity, and that makes it a fragile at best design, but what's worse, the failure contaminates the entire system due to idiotic and avoidable fuel system design. There simply is no denying it, this HPFP and fuel flow path is an engineering flaw, there are fixes, like the CP3 kit, if you keep your car, I HIGHLY advise that kit.. I went to the Cruze Diesel with a much more robust HPFP, and it does not need an idiotic mis-fuel guard, it has a LARGE fuel neck that even big rig pump nozzles can fit, because it is poor design to have such a fragile pump, and the VW mis-fuel claim was a blame the customer tactic that is proven false in this report, if you read the details.

VW tried to save about $330 per car, with the emission cheat, and the CP4.1/4.2 saved even MORE over the proven reliable CP3 pump.. so it is not hard to figure out why they chose this pump, what is despicable is how they blame the customer, and deny the problem.. and still refuse to make it right. It's sad, because there were some aspects of the car I really liked, but how can I trust such a company? Pretty hard to do given this clear undeniable pattern.

 

[mr_y82]

^fair enough. I agree is was not a desirable outcome... VW doesn't seem to be much into desirable outcomes for us TDI owners lately... Hope mid July brings some kind of good news... Finally thought I had fixed VW's mistakes and now they've thrown us for another loop...

 

[Buckwild90]

Reading the report, as an Engineer, and in light of other deceptions by VW.. Here are salient points that are exposed:

- VW flat out miscalculated mis-fuel the central issue, by a factor of 10.. that is outrageous.

- The before and after failure rates with the idiotic mis-fuel guard are statistically unchanged.

- There is a high failure rate, and a vehicle test by VW with an intentional defect on the HPFP roller was run for 23 hours, but had a near instant engine fault, and went to limp mode (this VWs attempt to deny sudden power loss, thus safety issue, but it also shows how any defect in the HPFP causes a near instant power loss).

- It has been clear that VW is well aware a large number of failures are NOT from mis-fuel, yet the freely continue to tell the customer, they are WRONG. This should not be excused. It is outrageous.

This report does not deny there is a problem, in fact it basically proves there IS a problem.. but it says no evidence yet of an accident due to this failure. It also says they are continuing to monitor the situation.

Now, full disclosure, I DUMPED my 2012 TDI, when I dug into the engineering issues of the HPFP, and had metal in my filter, only to have VW tell me it was OK, and charge me to look at it, under WARRANTY. In this report they show a VW provided picture of the fuel filter, mine was not quite as bad, but did have metal particles.. in sharp contrast with my Diesel truck filter with many more miles, and MANY more gallons of fuel through it. This HPFP is way too sensitive to fuel lubricity, and that makes it a fragile at best design, but what's worse, the failure contaminates the entire system due to idiotic and avoidable fuel system design. There simply is no denying it, this HPFP and fuel flow path is an engineering flaw, there are fixes, like the CP3 kit, if you keep your car, I HIGHLY advise that kit.. I went to the Cruze Diesel with a much more robust HPFP, and it does not need an idiotic mis-fuel guard, it has a LARGE fuel neck that even big rig pump nozzles can fit, because it is poor design to have such a fragile pump, and the VW mis-fuel claim was a blame the customer tactic that is proven false in this report, if you read the details.

VW tried to save about $330 per car, with the emission cheat, and the CP4.1/4.2 saved even MORE over the proven reliable CP3 pump.. so it is not hard to figure out why they chose this pump, what is despicable is how they blame the customer, and deny the problem.. and still refuse to make it right. It's sad, because there were some aspects of the car I really liked, but how can I trust such a company? Pretty hard to do given this clear undeniable pattern.

This guy is exactly right, mine just randomly grenaded at exactly 94700 miles, after meticulously maintenance. VW refuses to cover mine because they only offered the warranty extension to 09-12. It's complete bulshxt. I'm going to complain to the NHSTA till this becomes a recall. CP3 is the way I'm goin.

 

[ATR]

This guy is exactly right, mine just randomly grenaded at exactly 94700 miles, after meticulously maintenance. VW refuses to cover mine because they only offered the warranty extension to 09-12. It's complete bulshxt. I'm going to complain to the NHSTA till this becomes a recall. CP3 is the way I'm goin.

I'd go a step further and also bring up this issue with the emissions case after June 21st. I'd push volkswagen much harder to fix it too. The NHTSA opened the case around the time the 2012s came out. The pump never really got a complete overhaul that it needed from the start.

If you do go with the CP3 I'd be interested to see how the pump actually failed.

 

[Buckwild90]

I'd go a step further and also bring up this issue with the emissions case after June 21st. I'd push volkswagen much harder to fix it too. The NHTSA opened the case around the time the 2012s came out. The pump never really got a complete overhaul that it needed from the start.
If you do go with the CP3 I'd be interested to see how the pump actually failed.

My fuel looks very clean other than the metal shards in it, so my guess is manufacturer defect. My filter was just changed 15k ago

 

[ATR]

My fuel looks very clean other than the metal shards in it, so my guess is manufacturer defect. My filter was just changed 15k ago

I did the fuel filter change at 40k and 60k miles...
On the 40k change I saw "glitter" on the top of the fuel filter.
At 60k there was much less.

Many dealers call the "glitter" normal for the first 60k of service.

We all know the real deal. It's not normal for there to be flakes of metal on the clean side of the filter.