Volkswagen's Clean Air Act violations on 2009+ TDIs spark huge recall, investigations

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cowgirlkaboom

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Some people find it more productive to work in person, though.
In any case, if you're congregating a lot of humans in one place, another solution is to use lower impact transportation in that one place - walking, cycling, mass transit (which, in a dense city works a lot better), or if a car is truly needed, electric vehicles. Get the tailpipe out of the city, at the absolute worst case, and really, don't use a car at all unless you're transporting cargo that needs one. (Easier said than done with current city structures, especially American city structures, though. However, European cities can successfully make it harder and harder for cars to legally coexist, and Paris has actually implemented a car-free day.)
Totally. It depends on the kind of work you do, but in many industries often you work globally with development teams, management in various locations, devices in various locations, customers everywhere, at least in my industry. Here meetings actually slow down process. But there are definitely good applications for group work in other industries and cultures.

As far as public transportation, I loved it when I lived in DC and Boston. However, out here on the the west coast I have yet to be impressed. A bus takes 1:27 with one transfer to get 5 miles to my house. Meanwhile you'll get talked up by drug addicts, people just getting out of jail and intoxicated people in general. I'm very glad the intoxicated people are on the bus but not driving, but gives me zero incentive to use it. I once had a boss ask me if I had been drinking before work because of the oder. I had one job I could cycle to, but it isn't safe to do that here as you will have to pass through homeless encampments and deal with the onslaught of students at the start of the semester with $200k sports cars.

But yeah, most of the above social issues could be solved with less people and value the ones we already have more, but thats way off topic. I'll keep driving my polluter and paying $1500/year for parking. Just too many people. It is hard to compare Europe to the US, smaller landmass, culture, etc.
 

JBell

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Prior wrongdoing? Lol. The only reason VW is in the process of doing something about this is that they were forced to.

That's usually how federal recalls work. Check out Hyundai's latest one with the 2010-2011 Sonatas. We're talking engine replacements. NHTSA mandated it. Had they not, people would still be getting screwed.
 

PlaneCrazy

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Gone...
Where does 'false outrage' end and the 'weird' desire to make clean air and a stable climate our legacy instead of smog and rising sea levels begin?
At vandalizing my automobile (or that of any other TDI driver).

Reminder: owners are the victims, not the perps. We bought our cars in good faith assuming they were approved for sale by our respective government authorities.

For the vast majority of us, the car still runs very well, and few of us can afford to trade a late-model car and take the financial hit that goes with it. So we will keep driving them. Until the friggin' wheels fall off. Stuff that into your self-righteous pipe and smoke it.
 

ChemMan

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Earth
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Or maybe just having too many humans in general and congregating them in one place, and making them travel to and from jobs that could be done remotely could be part of the issue. At least that is how I generate most of my pollution. Travel to an office, bang on keyboard all day, go home. Typical tech work, actual need to in person discussions is rare.
Or it is poor emission control on diesel? Paris (and London) didn't have much of a smog problem before 2000 however after Kyoto to cut CO2 emissions they put tax incentives in place for diesel and the smog problem got worse and worse. There probably is a lot of cheating going on so this a problem self created by the short sighted profit driven companies but it has gotten so bad Paris is considering a ban on diesel in the city limits.
 

nwdiver

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Location
Texas
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2003 Jetta TDI (sold); 2012 Tesla Model S
At vandalizing my automobile (or that of any other TDI driver).
Reminder: owners are the victims, not the perps. We bought our cars in good faith assuming they were approved for sale by our respective government authorities.
For the vast majority of us, the car still runs very well, and few of us can afford to trade a late-model car and take the financial hit that goes with it. So we will keep driving them. Until the friggin' wheels fall off. Stuff that into your self-righteous pipe and smoke it.
I agree there is no excuse for vandalizing cars.... but poisoning pedestrians for better performance is worse...
 

dirtysouthjacket

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2012 Jetta TDI Premium 6MT, 2004 Jetta TDI GLS (sold)
So when is someone going to get the balls to take their brand new VW financed car up to VW Headquarters, fill out some protest forms and let anyone take a baseball bat to their car?

I'm not condoning this and am on the side of everyone chilling out, but it would make for some interested news!
 

JBell

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I agree there is no excuse for vandalizing cars.... but poisoning pedestrians for better performance is worse...

Something 99% of TDI owners don't do. Generalize much?

EDIT: I hope you're referring to people modifying the TDI? If not, that statement is just bizarre. Nobody bought the car knowing it would exceed NOx levels.
 
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VeeDubTDI

Wanderluster, Traveler, TDIClub Enthusiast
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‘18 Tesla Model 3D+, ‘14 Cadillac ELR, ‘13 Fiat 500e
I agree there is no excuse for vandalizing cars.... but poisoning pedestrians for better performance is worse...
Vandalizing a car is willful destruction. Buying a car that turns out to not be what it was advertised is not.

You're getting pretty close to some lines with your generalizations. Don't let your overt agenda get the best of reasonable and intelligent discussion. Let this be a polite warning.
 

nwdiver

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Location
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You're getting pretty close to some lines with your generalizations. Don't let your overt agenda get the best of reasonable and intelligent discussion. Let this be a polite warning.
Re-flashing the software or refusing the recall WOULD be deliberate. That's what I'm referring to.
 

ZeroG

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Location
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I agree there is no excuse for vandalizing cars.... but poisoning pedestrians for better performance is worse...
I have to believe the number one threat to pedestrians from cars is being run over. I myself am certainly a fan of mandating inflatable bubble cars and 10mph speed limits, but only so long as we legalize drunk driving.

Remember, driving down "performance" could mean burning more fuel and increasing other pollutants. It's not a simple morality play.
 

PC Dave

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Re-flashing the software or refusing the recall WOULD be deliberate. That's what I'm referring to.
Your 2003 Jetta - if you actually own one - emits more pollutants of all kinds than a current model (and it's legally allowed to do so). Are you planning on parking it to do the right thing, or do you drive down the street willingly poisoning pedestrians? Are you going out of pocket to modify it to meet the most recent standards you so strongly support? By your own logic, wouldn't it be reasonable if someone came along and vandalized your car since it's a murder machine that you deliberately drive to harm the populace?
 

VeeDubTDI

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Re-flashing the software or refusing the recall WOULD be deliberate. That's what I'm referring to.
That hasn't happened (because there is still no fix), yet people are apparently getting their cars vandalized. You're justifying today's vandalism by talking about what people may or may not do in the future in response to some yet-to-be-determined action from VW.
 

nwdiver

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That hasn't happened (because there is still no fix), yet people are apparently getting their cars vandalized. You're justifying today's vandalism by talking about what people may or may not do in the future in response to some yet-to-be-determined action from VW.
You need to re-read my post... not claiming either is right...

I agree there is no excuse for vandalizing cars.... but poisoning pedestrians for better performance is worse...
Your 2003 Jetta - if you actually own one - emits more pollutants of all kinds than a current model (and it's legally allowed to do so). Are you planning on parking it to do the right thing, or do you drive down the street willingly poisoning pedestrians?
I've since moved on from my Jetta... better options became available ;)

Remember, driving down "performance" could mean burning more fuel and increasing other pollutants. It's not a simple morality play.
Agreed... that's why it's time to start retiring ICE as is practicable... the best thing VW can do now is make a hard turn toward EVs.
 
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divewreck

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Location
NorCal
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2012 A3 TDI
Why VW cheated

So the newer 2.0 TDI's have a urea tank. What was VW going to do with the 09- 14 diesels - NOTHING. Guess they thought no one would detect their deceit
 

cowgirlkaboom

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Location
Everywhere, Oregon
TDI
2011 Golf
I agree there is no excuse for vandalizing cars.... but poisoning pedestrians for better performance is worse...
Don't worry, your being less poisoned then ever: before:http://www3.epa.gov/airtrends/nitrogen.html

And thats with "everyone" removing emissions equipment, rolling coal, not recycling, and everything else you probably lose sleep over.
 

ZeroG

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Location
SF Bay Area, CA
TDI
2015 Golf
that's why it's time to start retiring ICE as is practicable... the best thing VW can do now is make a hard turn toward EVs.[/QUOTE]

I'd like to ride a horse myself, but hitching posts are so hard to find these days and they're not allowed on several of the local bridges.

I hate to get steered back into the EV vs diesel debate, but again I point out the 2014 PNAS paper by Tessum et al, "Life Cycle Air Quality Impacts of Conventional and Alternative Fuel Vehicles." They are generally quite enamored of EV, but point out that the state of the grid, shows EV doing about 2x the amount of damage to the air as conventional gas. EV has it's place, but it is dependent on a grid that doesn't support it yet and won't for decades to come. That's why I'm following a thread on a diesel enthusiasts forum.

(Sorry, I will post any further comment on EV on other thread, though the above paper does directly address diesel as well.)
 

delsvr

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I'm new here so I don't have much authority to say this, but isn't it time for the mods to close this thread? While there is a good deal of informative discussion, it's too long to be of any use. And the personal attacks and tangents aren't helpful.

I'd rather see topics like EV, Solar/renewable, VW press statements, the future of TDI, legal recourse, and pure conjecture addressed separately.
 

VeeDubTDI

Wanderluster, Traveler, TDIClub Enthusiast
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I'm gonna start ramping up my action on the EV discussion if you guys don't cut it out...
 

VeeDubTDI

Wanderluster, Traveler, TDIClub Enthusiast
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‘18 Tesla Model 3D+, ‘14 Cadillac ELR, ‘13 Fiat 500e
I'm new here so I don't have much authority to say this, but isn't it time for the mods to close this thread? While there is a good deal of informative discussion, it's too long to be of any use. And the personal attacks and tangents aren't helpful.

I'd rather see topics like EV, Solar/renewable, VW press statements, the future of TDI, legal recourse, and pure conjecture addressed separately.
EV discussion is getting separated out right now. Find it here: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=448191

VW press statements and other quality Dieselgate news got separated out a week ago. Find it here: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=448336 (this is a thread you should subscribe to if you don't want to sift through all of the posts in this giant thread)
 

bubbagumpshrimp

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Virginia
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'13 Jetta TDI
This thread has taught me that there are TDI owners who grew up driving diesels... and then there are a bunch of whining little *****es who want a handout. I can't believe how many of the latter we have in this thread. I am disappoint.

Sent from my SM-G928V using Tapatalk
I don't think people want a handout...I think most people just want to be squared away (financially). I.e. Myself. I began the process of shopping for a new car a couple weeks before this hit (I wanted something bigger). Fast-forward a couple weeks and I'm stuck with a car that I don't want...and I'm pretty much stuck with until this whole situation is resolved.

Keep in mind...VW intentionally dic*** people over here. We aren't talking about some perceived slight that someone is wanting to "get paid" for.
 

dirtysouthjacket

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TDI
2012 Jetta TDI Premium 6MT, 2004 Jetta TDI GLS (sold)
I'm new here so I don't have much authority to say this, but isn't it time for the mods to close this thread? While there is a good deal of informative discussion, it's too long to be of any use. And the personal attacks and tangents aren't helpful.

I'd rather see topics like EV, Solar/renewable, VW press statements, the future of TDI, legal recourse, and pure conjecture addressed separately.

Unfortunately multiple threads wouldnt improve the content. Just increase the same people posting in multiple threads. One thread is easier on the mods. The FAQ thread is still the most concise way to receive factual information. Everything in here is just venting and talking heads. People do need an outlet, but its not like anyone has flipped sides after reviewing posts in here. :p

It would be nice if the forum software allowed tagging of posts. But not sure if that would truly help find content quicker.
 
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