Why you should buy a Diesel with a DSG transmission

Diesl

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2012
Location
Chicago
TDI
'78 Golf Diesel (long gone); 2012 Jetta Sportwagen TDI w/ DSG
I feel contributing to the negatively titled threads on diesels and DSGs will in the end only support the disinformation and fear mongering. So I thought it is time to start a positive thread.
Personally, I'm very glad that a friend pointed out the Volkswagen TDIs when I was looking to replace my previous car. A thread that summarizes what we like about our TDIs with DSG could be a helpful decision making tool for anybody in a similar situation.
I'll start with some of the reasons why I think a TDI with DSG makes a lot of sense, in my case for an 80 miles per day commute, 2/3 of it on the highway:
  • Switching to the 2 liter turbocharged Diesel was an easy way to improve my fuel milage by 30% without giving up power, and actually gaining low rpm torque and driveability. Being able to go a whole week between fillups is a nice bonus.
  • The DSG, as an automated manual, seems a very good match to the engine characteristics of the TDI: no losses from a torque converter even at low rpms, while having the full convenience of an automatic when you want it, and super fast (8 milliseconds) full power upshifts, manual or automatic.
 

tadawson

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2013
Location
Lewisville, TX
TDI
2013 Passat TDI SEL, 2015 Passat TDI SEL
That, and the tendency of folks to gripe not praise . . .

All in all, I like the DSG, consider the maintenance cost negligible at best, and really can't say in the 2+ years I have been here that I recall more than 1 or 2 threads on a failure. 01M yes, DSG, no . . . Yeah, the purist in me sees the merits of a manual, and the rest notes that those are negligible in the real world . . . I'd take another one in a heartbeat . . .

- Tim
 

ZippyNH

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2015
Location
Southern NH
TDI
2015 JETTA TDI SE
You should get a DSG tranny cause
1) you have no fear of getting called less of a driver or man cause you let the car shift!!
2) it is what you WANT.
3) the 2015 cars have nearly the same gear ratio's as the stick...2000 rpm at about 72 mph..so mpg is similar...
4) You are tired of folks pleading that a stick us the only cheap reliable way to go...
Got news for folks..ease of use and convience costs $$$..ever shop at a 7-11?!
I want every DSG hating poster to remove their AC...it just costs $$ and hurts MPG!! YOU CAN LIVE without it too!! Please do it!! Same goes for every other item on their car that makes it a good place to be ..but removing your AC, would be the same argument...
We all have things we like, want or desire....
Everything has a price, be it an extra tranny flush every 40,000 miles on a DSG or an AC recharge...wow...that's like $200 or less..ouch..
I am starting to believe that many stick shift drivers are just modern bigot's...
Frankly my VW is only the second self shifting/auto car I have owned....and it is a nice change.... How DARE you folks go on multi page rants on how you are better. Cheaper, saving $$ cause you use 3 pedals...I drive a stick at work...I FLOAT MY GEARS, AND DON'T EVEN USE A CLUTCH EXCEPT TO PUT IT IN GEAR....
IMO I have earned the right to say I drive a DSG cause IMO it us a SUPERIOR driving EXPERANCE for just a little bit more $$.
Why is it when DSG folks "invade" the DSG is bad thread we get berated....but we start out own thread, and are told the same things by the same posters on OUR THREAD?!
WE LEFT YPU GUYS ALONE IN your THREAD...
LET US HAVE OURS!!
WE ARE JUST AS RIGHT AND STONG IN OUR OPINIONS AND CONVICTIONS AS YOU.
YOU WILL NEVER CHANGE OUR MINDS.
Rant over.
PS
Anybody care to start a thread on how AC in cars is a waste of $$? :)
 

325_Guy

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2011
Location
West Central Texas
TDI
MkV Jetta
Tell us how you really feel, Zippy! ?

I guess I must be one of those ultra weird people with the capability to engage in independent thought, because I'm a die hard three-pedal kind of guy. I'd never drive an automatic. But damn, my wife's DSG equipped Jetta is fun to drive!

Really though, who cares? It's not like the winner of the epic "manual vs auto" threads is gonna write worldwide law banning either manuals or automatics.

Besides, in ten years time we'll be having equally spirited discussions about "humies vs robbies" or something similar. Lol.
 

lsafford

Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2013
Location
Barre, Vermont
TDI
2013 Passat TDI
I am looking at trading my manual TDI in for a DSG, because: I am having knee issues and am having a harder time working the clutch. But I love the TDI and it would be very hard to go back to gas, even as a hybrid.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
You could make this argument for alloy wheels, power windows, airbags, sunroof...any number of features modern cars have. People seem to have strong opinions about DSGs, some thinking they're dangerous, some thinking they are too expensive to maintain, some thinking they cost too much in fuel. It all seems to be a matter of perspective.

I don't want one because I like to shift myself. I'd probably pay a premium in FE and maintenance to keep that preference. Some feel the reverse. Fine by me.
 

MichaelB

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2009
Location
SE Wisconsin
TDI
2014 Passat SE DSG
You could make this argument for alloy wheels, power windows, airbags, sunroof...any number of features modern cars have.
I agree....... what kinda torqued me off when I went to purchase the Passat. I couldn't get a DSG without 18" alloy wheels and a sunroof. Neither of which I had any desire for.
 

Random_Vibration

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2014
Location
Florida
TDI
2015 Golf SEL TDI (6MT, LP, Driver Assist)
You know...buy what you want. Really, I don't care what people buy. I just hope enough people buy manuals so I can keep enjoying them too. I'm so over the transmission Jihad.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
Differential and final drive are combined in most cars. In VWs they're riveted together.

I doubt anyone has suffered any permanent knee damage from driving a manual transmission car. Trucks, perhaps, but I bet that's rare.
 

Fix_Until_Broke

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 8, 2004
Location
Menomonee Falls, Wisconsin, USA
TDI
03 Jetta, 03 TT TDI
I really need to drive a tuned DSG someday. I've driven 2 or 3 "stock" DSG's and I thought they were horrible. Couldn't decide what gear to be in, can't start out smoothly, takes forever to downshift when you lean into it, downshifts when I don't want it to when you lean into it a little, ugh - horrible.

I've heard that the tuned ones more/less fix all this and drive far better than 'stock', but I'd have to drive one to believe it.

I drive a manual because there's no better option. If there was an automatic that would live behind my TDI and not be a 10+% MPG hit, I'd be all over it. Turbocharged engines are the most fun behind automatics because you don't have to let off the throttle during shifts. The 1-2 shift in my Grand National is highly addictive :)
 

Lightflyer1

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Sep 13, 2005
Location
Round Rock, Texas
TDI
2015 Beetle tdi dsg
Probably "your" driving style doesn't fit well with the DSG. I have suffered none of the things you complain about in normal driving with an untuned DSG (for 3 years now). Today is the last day for my DSG though as it is going to CarMax today and I will move on with my 2003 New Beetle 5 speed manual. I have enjoyed both the manual transmissions and the DSG I have owned.
 

South Coast Guy

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2010
Location
Mattapoisett, MA
TDI
2009 Jetta TDI wagon
I really need to drive a tuned DSG someday. I've driven 2 or 3 "stock" DSG's and I thought they were horrible. Couldn't decide what gear to be in, can't start out smoothly, takes forever to downshift when you lean into it, downshifts when I don't want it to when you lean into it a little, ugh - horrible.

I've heard that the tuned ones more/less fix all this and drive far better than 'stock', but I'd have to drive one to believe it.

I drive a manual because there's no better option. If there was an automatic that would live behind my TDI and not be a 10+% MPG hit, I'd be all over it. Turbocharged engines are the most fun behind automatics because you don't have to let off the throttle during shifts. The 1-2 shift in my Grand National is highly addictive :)

Not sure where you get this number. Many EPA ratings show 1 mpg difference.
 

Bob_Fout

Oil Wanker
Joined
Sep 5, 2004
Location
Indiana
TDI
2003 Jetta - Alaska Green (sold) / 2015 GTI 2.0T
I really need to drive a tuned DSG someday. I've driven 2 or 3 "stock" DSG's and I thought they were horrible. Couldn't decide what gear to be in, can't start out smoothly, takes forever to downshift when you lean into it, downshifts when I don't want it to when you lean into it a little, ugh - horrible.

I've heard that the tuned ones more/less fix all this and drive far better than 'stock', but I'd have to drive one to believe it.

I drive a manual because there's no better option. If there was an automatic that would live behind my TDI and not be a 10+% MPG hit, I'd be all over it. Turbocharged engines are the most fun behind automatics because you don't have to let off the throttle during shifts. The 1-2 shift in my Grand National is highly addictive :)
If you have a chance to drive a DSG 2.0T Passat, GTI or R, they might be different. Or maybe some things were changed/fix in the later models?

My 15 GTI DSG has its quirks (shifting into 5th or 6th at too low an RPM for my taste, for fuel economy I presume), but that's about it. It doesn't appear to change gears unnecessarily, it picks the correct gear for the road speed (previous exception noted, it is a correct gear, just not the best gear in my mind).

It cannot of course pre-select a gear in anticipation of road conditions like you can with a manual, but it downshifts quickly when needed. Over time mine appears to have "learned" to not downshift just because I roll into it some, it takes a deliberate stab for it to kickdown. That is, unless it's at too an low RPM for the requested change in speed, it will downshift (something I would do anyways with a manual)

Take-offs are smooth, but if you lay into it, the GTI readily springs forward. I can't imagine what the R would do in the same situation.

Upshifts are amazingly smooth and quick (one long continuous acceleration), better than I could ever do. Downshifts are quick, but due the nature of them, not perfectly smooth like up shifts.

All this being said, I would consider a DSG tune to keep it from running at too low RPMs. It's not that it's bad from the factory, I just think it could be better. Same with the engine tune, not bad, but we could always use more power.
 

ZippyNH

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2015
Location
Southern NH
TDI
2015 JETTA TDI SE
Not sure where you get this number. Many EPA ratings show 1 mpg difference.
Yup...
Most every modern conventional auto BEATS a stick in other makes, and the DSG seems to match a stick or be so close, it is negilble....likely more of a rounding error when you look at the newer cars....the once large gaps from auto to stick for fuel economy is largely gone.
What I have found is the DSG gets BETTER at guessing the right time to shift as it adapts to how you drive, and maybe a bit of how you adapt your pedal useage to it...
Frankly I wanted a stick when I bought my car, but my wife did now want me to get YET ANOTHER car she will not/cannot drive...so I got the DSG....and I am impressed.
Simple fact is the stick is more of a tranny I expect to see on a track car, a sport car, or other "drivers car" (even there the auto's get better mpg, AND faster 0-60 times) and less on a family hauler...nothing wrong with getting one, like I have said, I have owned my share, but know that the percent of stick cars is falling so fast that having one is likely to be a great anti-theft measure (more than it is now)...
Just try to buy a super-car with a stick...
Most are gone....now history...
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
EPA ratings do not predict FE in use. DSG MKVI Jetta/Golf drivers take about a 5 MPG hit compared to manuals. The difference is greatest in city driving. I think Fuelly supports this, assuming you can correctly sort manuals and DSGs.

If you search around here you'll find that threads where the OP is unhappy with is new TDI's fuel economy are almost universally DSG owners. Perhaps that's because there's more of them, but I rarely hear a MT TDI owner complain that he or she isn't getting the expected FE.
 

ZippyNH

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2015
Location
Southern NH
TDI
2015 JETTA TDI SE
We all know driving style is a GREAT predictor of fuel economy, just as brake pad life is...
Stick shift VW drivers tend to be the hardcorest mpg folks of the bunch...and on this board, often older, and more patient...
And many folks see the mpg ratings of a tdi and switch from other cars..and many of these folks end up with the DSG.....they claim to be "laid back" and economy minded...perhaps they have a mechanical issue, but just like a stick, rpms match road speed...so they are using up the fuel somehow...
Frankly I get 50+ mpg (pen and paper calculation, the computer usually shows 53 or so) driving back and forth up 93 from north reading mass to NH with a DSG in my 2015, AC blowing hard enough to fog my glasses when I get out....and that has been for the last 10,000 miles, tank after tank...
Am I a jackrabbit, no, but do I spend lots of time closer to 80 keeping up with traffic, yes...do I look ahead and let off of the fuel pedal rather than rush up and slam on my brakes, yes...do I roll in traffic at a steady speed as opposed to racing up slamming on my brakes,then getting on Facebook till a car honks, than floor it again and again? You bet..why tear up a car and burn up tons of fuel...we all get there at the same time...
But some folks are not patient.... And will NEVER get rated MPG due to habits...
Frankly the value of the epa ratings is that the cars share the same testing methodology.... The numbers might not be accurate, but they provide a realitive comparison tool...
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
We all know driving style is a GREAT predictor of fuel economy, just as brake pad life is...
Stick shift VW drivers tend to be the hardcorest mpg folks of the bunch...and on this board, often older, and more patient...
And many folks see the mpg ratings of a tdi and switch from other cars..and many of these folks end up with the DSG.....they claim to be "laid back" and economy minded...perhaps they have a mechanical issue, but just like a stick, rpms match road speed...so they are using up the fuel somehow...
Frankly I get 50+ mpg (pen and paper calculation, the computer usually shows 53 or so) driving back and forth up 93 from north reading mass to NH with a DSG in my 2015, AC blowing hard enough to fog my glasses when I get out....and that has been for the last 10,000 miles, tank after tank...
Am I a jackrabbit, no, but do I spend lots of time closer to 80 keeping up with traffic, yes...do I look ahead and let off of the fuel pedal rather than rush up and slam on my brakes, yes...do I roll in traffic at a steady speed as opposed to racing up slamming on my brakes,then getting on Facebook till a car honks, than floor it again and again? You bet..why tear up a car and burn up tons of fuel...we all get there at the same time...
But some folks are not patient.... And will NEVER get rated MPG due to habits...
Frankly the value of the epa ratings is that the cars share the same testing methodology.... The numbers might not be accurate, but they provide a realitive comparison tool...
So you're disproving your own point by describing your driving habits as more conservative and "laid back" to use your term.

And my point is that EPA ratings are not a good relative comparison tool for FE. Just ask any Ford Fusion Hybrid or Prius owner.
 

cowgirlkaboom

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 22, 2014
Location
Everywhere, Oregon
TDI
2011 Golf
I do appreciate the DSG for what it is. I drive a lot of rental cars and it is one to the best I've run into of the options available currently. My only reservation about the DSG is how it isn't rated for towing, it makes me wonder if my somewhat aggressive driving style will kill it faster then a manual. This is my first diesel without a hitch and it would have come in really handy lately. I hate to bust the Jeep out for little jobs this car could totally handle and probably even do better at.
 

S2000_guy

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 4, 2013
Location
ohio
TDI
2014 Sportwagen TDI
Yup...
...but know that the percent of stick cars is falling so fast that having one is likely to be a great anti-theft measure (more than it is now)...
Back in March, we left the JSW in valet parking at a hotel in downtown Memphis while we took a river cruise. (Yes it was expensive, but I REALLY wanted to ensure that the car would be there when we returned to a strange city in the middle of the night.)

When we returned, we gave the young man the ticket, and he went to look for the car. He looked in the garage, then found it in a surface lot within eyesight of where we were standing. Rather than bringing the car over, he returned and apologized for his inability to drive "stick." I tipped him well and commended him to the lady in the booth for 'fessing up rather than burning my clutch trying to learn at my expense.
 

Ol'Rattler

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 3, 2007
Location
PNA
TDI
2006 BRM Jetta
Rather than bringing the car over, he returned and apologized for his inability to drive "stick." I tipped him well and commended him to the lady in the booth for 'fessing up rather than burning my clutch trying to learn at my expense.
You sir have touched on one of the the best reason for driving a DSG.

A lot of Americans just don't know how to drive a manual without destroying it. I thank Drivers Ed's cost cutting budget constraints to make Drivers Ed easier and cheaper to teach has a lot to do with a lot of Americans inability to drive a manual.

A kid posted here on Fred's, IIRC, that he bought a brand spanking new manual Golf and completely destroyed the clutch by the time he got the car home. Maybe 20 miles.

So I guess if you are completely clueless at driving a manual then a DSG with it's higher maintenance cost and potential stupid expensive repair costs might be an acceptable trade off.

There ya go, a reason to buy a DSG car. Sure the millisecond shifts are just awesome, but not worth the added expense.
 
Last edited:

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
Back in March, we left the JSW in valet parking at a hotel in downtown Memphis while we took a river cruise. (Yes it was expensive, but I REALLY wanted to ensure that the car would be there when we returned to a strange city in the middle of the night.)

When we returned, we gave the young man the ticket, and he went to look for the car. He looked in the garage, then found it in a surface lot within eyesight of where we were standing. Rather than bringing the car over, he returned and apologized for his inability to drive "stick." I tipped him well and commended him to the lady in the booth for 'fessing up rather than burning my clutch trying to learn at my expense.
This is why I never give my cars to valets. I travel a fair amount and it's not been a problem. Only exception is in parking garages in NYC, where you have no choice. However, I've never encountered a parking attendant in NYC that was in the least phased by a manual transmission.

Do you really want the competence of teen parking attendants determine what car you drive? I don't.
 

no-blue-screen

TDI Nut
Joined
Feb 9, 2006
Location
Maryland
TDI
TDI
I drove my Passat TDI for 3 years with a manual transmission. When I switch to the golf I wanted to go with the DSG for a number of reasons but the main two reasons were not having to shift when I don't want to and having something my wife to drive as she doesn't know how to drive a stick. The cost of the DSG service while not cheap is not unreasonable in my mind if you're going by dealer prices everything is inflated. The DSG is not perfect but then again I don't think any piece of equipment is. The only thing that matters is that you make the right decision for your needs and desires. Everyone is different and everyone likes different things.
 

Lightflyer1

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Sep 13, 2005
Location
Round Rock, Texas
TDI
2015 Beetle tdi dsg
You sir have touched on one of the the best reason for driving a DSG.

A lot of Americans just don't know how to drive a manual without destroying it. I thank Drivers Ed's cost cutting budget constraints to make Drivers Ed easier and cheaper to teach has a lot to do with a lot of Americans inability to drive a manual.
My oldest daughters first car was a 1999 Saturn manual. I taught her how to drive a stick in 2 hours. It had a weak clutch to start with as well. She learned and drove that car for 3 years before selling it, still with a weak but good clutch. Don't blame everything on the government. If you want to learn something you can with the help of an interested party or just on your own. She has only owned manual transmission cars/trucks (6) her whole life so far.

The problem isn't with being able to learn, it is with wanting to learn. The majority just don't want to learn, and the market reflects that.
 

Ol'Rattler

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 3, 2007
Location
PNA
TDI
2006 BRM Jetta
The problem isn't with being able to learn, it is with wanting to learn. The majority just don't want to learn, and the market reflects that.
A VG point.

I encountered that with my Grand Daughter. I offered to teach her how to drive a manual, but in her mind she was of the opinion that why should I?

Driving a manual isn't all that difficult, but does take a concentrated effort to learn because it is a new skill. Once you master that skill, you have it for life.

I really think that Drivers Ed is doing a big disservice to us by not teaching folks how to drive a manual. Of course they don't teach how to change a tire. check tire pressure or check oil either which folks have to learn in many European countries to get a Drivers License.
 

Lightflyer1

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Sep 13, 2005
Location
Round Rock, Texas
TDI
2015 Beetle tdi dsg
They also don't teach Vocational classes much any more. Fewer and fewer people are mechanically inclined and/or know how to work with their hands any more. I am surprised Drivers Ed. even "is" taught anymore in the public school system.

I taught my daughters how to drive, including a manual trans, and how to at least check all of the fluids properly, and how to change a tire. I taught them your car needs fluids just like your body needs blood.

When my daughter got back from Afghanistan and was discharged, she drove her manual trans pickup, towing her manual trans car, back to Texas. She had a flat on the truck in Alabama. She changed it herself as the Highway Patrol rolled up and complimented her. She called to thank me for teaching her these things.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
I took Driver's Ed 43 years ago, in 1972...on an automatic. No manual cars available then. And two years later when my brother took his driving test I had to rent a Ford Maverick with an automatic, because at that time Massachusetts didn't allow you to take the test in a car with a manual transmission. Of course at that time my family only owned manual transmission cars so we learned. So if you want to complain about the erosion of education in our culture or whatever, keep in mind it's been a while.
 

ezshift5

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 2, 2003
Location
West Coast
TDI
2013 JSW TDI (Enroute BB).......2017 Jetta 1.4 turbo 5M ....................
When my daughter got back from Afghanistan and was discharged, she drove her manual trans pickup, towing her manual trans car, back to Texas. She had a flat on the truck in Alabama. She changed it herself as the Highway Patrol rolled up and complimented her. She called to thank me for teaching her these things.
I appreciate this. Some bias possible here (20 years in uniform: mostly going to meetings)


ez
 

ZippyNH

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2015
Location
Southern NH
TDI
2015 JETTA TDI SE
Pretty good attempt to hijack a useful thread!!

Now back to the original question!!

Why buy a DSG equipped diesel?!
Well....
It seems it may be your only choice in a PASSAT for 2016....:eek:
The Canadian folks are reporting that the stick is dead for 2016.....
So it seems if you want a new VW...unless you get a jetta tdi, you WILL be getting a tdi DSG PASSAT...
Kinda says lots...
The end of an era?!
 
Last edited:

Lightflyer1

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Sep 13, 2005
Location
Round Rock, Texas
TDI
2015 Beetle tdi dsg
Not really useful. The same arguments by mostly the same people for something that is a personal choice, which affects no one else but the owner(s), as is in the other opposite titled thread. Fun reading though, sorry about the hijack!
 
Last edited:
Top