NHSTA ends investigation...

[Lencher]

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/bu.../us-closes-probe-diesel-vw-vehicles/70713086/


Is VW going to continue to cover the HPFP replacements after this announcement? I am not optimistic #potentialforonehugebill

 

[I800C0LLECT]

interesting. Wonder if they'll take after VW of Canada and deny deny deny

 

[El Dobro]

Only time will tell.

 

[roostre]

Below is a link to the March 27, 2015 NHTSA Engineering Analysis Closing Report for investigation EA 11-003 concerning failure of the TDI HPFP

http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/acms/cs/jaxrs/download/doc/UCM475595/INCR-EA11003-61863.pdf

 

[CoriolisSTORM]

My guess, and it's not just a VW problem, all auto manufacturers do it, but YES, deny, deny, deny. Toyota, Fiat-Chrysler (well, personal experience with me was 4 Chrysler Corporations ago!), etc.

 

[Lencher]

TY roostre for that, very interesting. I did notice in consumer reports that fuel system reliability for model years 2013 and particularly 2014 have improved a lot. I know CR is not the be all end all but it is one source of information.

 

[Matt927]

Interesting:

No performance problems were observed in 378 miles of test driving a vehicle with 5% gasoline added to the diesel fuel and Volkswagen has indicated that operation with small amounts of gasoline contamination should have no effect on HPFP durability. No damage to the HPFP’s were observed by Volkswagen after misfuel tests with either low or high amounts of gasoline misfueling.

 

[Matt927]

Sure is going to be interesting to see how VWoA handles this and their goodwill replacements......

 

[evantful]

Drive more, worry less? Right guys......

I suspect we will be seeing the end of the goodwill replacements in the US, given the actions VW of Canada.


Drive more Worry more

 

[Lightflyer1]

I don't even own a Common Rail VW and this isn't acceptable to me. Wife, kids, .9% chance and increasing of stalling and potentially getting wacked by a 80,000lb semi.. no thanks.

From the engineering closing report, of those who reported no warning of the failure, 100% were given warning of at least 1 mile and up to 60 miles, before failure (CEL, chimes etc.). This from data retrieved from the cars involved. Pay attention and you won't get wacked. A less than 1% failure rate isn't unusual as compared to other vehicles/engines of similar specs (from the report). I have no issues with buying and owning my CR car. If I have an issue I will just turn it over to GEICO MBI to get repaired. $7 a month is easy on the wallet and provides some peace of mind, just in case.

 

[eb2143]

Great find roostre.

Decent snapshot of US diesel fuel quality from VW's fuel station samples:
6.2% of fuel with wear scar >520 microns. Pretty pathetic.

Got a chuckle out of this:

According to Volkswagen, the samples from 37 of the vehicles “clearly showed average contamination of 8.5% gasoline in the diesel fuel.” However, ODI’s review of the test results provided by Volkswagen determined that the average contamination for the 37 vehicles was actually 0.85% based on the data provided

 

[roostre]

NHTSA Engineering Analysis EA11-003 lasted about 50 months from February 7, 2011 to March 27, 2015.

The HPFP incident data provided by VW for the analysis only includes incidents which occurred prior to October 12, 2012 which was about 30 months ago.

I was surprised the NHTSA closed a 50 month investigation without requesting or using any incident data from VW for the most recent 30 months.

 

[turbovan+tdi]

Pretty sad.

 

[atc98002]

Got a chuckle out of this:

Darn decimal points can really mess with your mind!

 

[LRTDI]

Had a feeling it was heading this way. I sensed far fewer if any failures being reported and VW improved its response to the problem.

But it does seem like VW got away with something big here, not even a slap on the wrist.

 

[South Coast Guy]

Had a feeling it was heading this way. I sensed far fewer if any failures being reported and VW improved its response to the problem.

But it does seem like VW got away with something big here, not even a slap on the wrist.

Yes, in the sense that they weren't required to replace all HPFP pumps installed before a certain date. VW has replaced hundreds (if not thousands) of them on their dime, though.

 

[Claudio]

i was thinking about trading my 09 when the new 16 AWD Tdi was out...not thinking anymore

 

[Second Turbo]

Implications of warning.

re: ... 100% were given warning of at least 1 mile and up to 60 miles, before failure (CEL, chimes etc.). This from data retrieved from the cars involved. Pay attention and you won't get wacked. ...

What triggers the alarm?
Is irreversible systemic damage already in progress at that point?

Assuming a halt on warning and tow ...

Is the repair effort/bill actually reduced?

 

[GoFaster]

The "warning" that NHTSA is talking about involves fault codes, warning lamps (MIL a.k.a. "check engine" lamp), engine running rough or losing power, etc.

By the time you get that "warning", your fuel system is toast. The fuel rail is already losing pressure because the metal shrapnel is already going through the system from the self-destructing injection pump.

Remember, the NHTSA is not concerned with whether or not repairs are covered under warranty or not, and they're not concerned with how much the repair costs, they are ONLY concerned with whether the failure results in injuries or fatalities. They do not care if your 2 year old $30,000 car goes to the scrap heap because its manufacturer won't pay to fix it.

 

[Second Turbo]

Dat's whut i thot

re: By the time you get that "warning", your fuel system is toast.

Thanks for confirming my suspicion. I knew about or concur with your other remarks.

 

[Mike in Anchorage]

"Acht punkt funf" oder "punkt acht funf?" Macht es einen Unterschied machen?

 

[Roshermoore]

Agreed

Remember, the NHTSA is not concerned with whether or not repairs are covered under warranty or not, and they're not concerned with how much the repair costs, they are ONLY concerned with whether the failure results in injuries or fatalities. They do not care if your 2 year old $30,000 car goes to the scrap heap because its manufacturer won't pay to fix it.

This is what so many fail to recognize.

 

[Smokin_Joe]

This is what so many fail to recognize.

Something else everyone seems to fail to realize
The report is full of evidence that doesn't support VW in its blame of misfueling.
It will be gold in the hands of a professional in a claim against VWoA.
Canada has different laws when it comes to suing. Our compensation for punitive is way less and in some cases nonexistent.
I think the report is damming for VW and they better keep up the good work in keeping the tdi's healthy or else they will get sued..
Think positive!

 

[GoFaster]

^ No argument from me on that point.

NHTSA to VW: "Your misfueling argument is BS, but given that the fuel system failures haven't killed anyone and don't appear likely to, we're not in a position to do anything about it."

 

[mrvermin]

^ No argument from me on that point.

NHTSA to VW: "Your misfueling argument is BS, but given that the fuel system failures haven't killed anyone and don't appear likely to, we're not in a position to do anything about it."

Basically, since the HPFP pump hasn't failed leaving a family of 5 and their little dog Toto to die after it stalled at a level crossing and got hit by a train, the rest of those who had to pay obscene amounts to get this repaired are SOL.....

I'll stick with my Mk4

MrVermin

 

[Lightflyer1]

Basically, since the HPFP pump hasn't failed leaving a family of 5 and their little dog Toto to die after it stalled at a level crossing and got hit by a train, the rest of those who had to pay obscene amounts to get this repaired are SOL.....

I'll stick with my Mk4

MrVermin

Please don't do this. You are trying to make it worse than it actually is. One mile to 60 miles warning is enough to get off the tracks. If not get out of the car. You should never stop on a crossing any way. Very few have failed and the huge safety issue you try and bring up just isn't really there. You probably have a way better chance dying from something else driving than this to worry about. You are sensationalizing a made up event that in all likely hood won't happen.

 

[mrvermin]

Please don't do this. You are trying to make it worse than it actually is. One mile to 60 miles warning is enough to get off the tracks. If not get out of the car. You should never stop on a crossing any way. Very few have failed and the huge safety issue you try and bring up just isn't really there. You probably have a way better chance dying from something else driving than this to worry about. You are sensationalizing a made up event that in all likely hood won't happen.

The point I am trying to make, is that the NHTSA will never force the manufacturer to recall and fix any issue with their vehicles unless there is a tragic death involved that is caused by the defect. This report will not force VW to compensate those who have been affected by the HPFP failures, now or in the future.

MrVermin

 

[Windex]

Please don't do this. You are trying to make it worse than it actually is. One mile to 60 miles warning is enough to get off the tracks. If not get out of the car. You should never stop on a crossing any way. Very few have failed and the huge safety issue you try and bring up just isn't really there. You probably have a way better chance dying from something else driving than this to worry about. You are sensationalizing a made up event that in all likely hood won't happen.

1 mile - 60 miles should be enough to get off the tracks, but history has shown that humans will not do the right thing in all cases.

Take the CHP officer who perished with his family when his floor mats caused their throttle to be stuck to the floor.

He could have held the Start/Stop button for three seconds to shut off the car, and much more intuitively, could have shifted the car to neutral.

But he didn't and tragically died. I work in a company that deals with many vehicles and drivers, and far too many of them figure out ways to ignore symptoms/lights/warnings until they are stranded.

Build a better mousetrap and the world will build better idiots. It will only be a matter of time before an HPFP does directly cause harm through a stall.

 

[GTIDan]

For me the report was a relief. My HPFP blewup about six months ago while driving home. It went into limp mode but I continued to drive hoping to get home (about a mile away) didn't make it and it quit in the middle of the street at a traffic light. Luckily some strangers came to my rescue and we pushed it out of the street and into a parking lot.

It should be noted that the car DID in fact give me ample warning to pull over........I just didn't heed the call. The car was towed to my dealer and the car was fixed without a hitch in less than two days and free of charge. VW did come through... (BTW: I just turned 60K on the car and had never used any additives) The new pump is a re-manufactured unit. At first I was pissed but after thinking about it I think it was a better deal because I'm thinking VW must have by now figured out the problem and fixed it. After reading the closing report it appears I was right as they have made several changes to the pump since my original pump was installed in Sept, 09.

The car is running fine but I did make one change............I now add the recommended dose of power service at each fill up. With this change and a newer pump I feel much more secure with the car...........time will tell I guess.

 

[Lightflyer1]

The point I am trying to make, is that the NHTSA will never force the manufacturer to recall and fix any issue with their vehicles unless there is a tragic death involved that is caused by the defect. This report will not force VW to compensate those who have been affected by the HPFP failures, now or in the future.

MrVermin

Sorry you were confused about what this investigation was responsible for. As stated before it is only to insure there isn't a defect that would cause death or great bodily harm to a significant number of people. It was never about holding VW responsible for anything but that. Sure a death may occur as it will with anything. But if it is statistically insignificant and not an intentional act, it will be hard to get anything else done. Unless someone sues or class action.