Strange Thing Happend On The Way Home

TheGrove

TDIClub Enthusiast, Veteran Member
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S Central PA (Breezewood)
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2012 Passat SEL Premium Opera Red - Dieselgate Fix, KermaTDI Tune, 2004 Passat GLS Northern Green-RIP
So last Thursday I was on my way home from work cruising down I70W in the left lane about 75MPH (normal routine) when about 2 miles before Clear Spring my Passat went into limp mode and the glow plug light started flashing. I made it to the right shoulder, fearing the worst, and the car stalled as I came to a stop.

After shutting the car off it restarted with no problem. But as I accelerated away as it would go to shift under load it would do the same thing - limp mode with glow plug light flashing. After a couple of times doing this I found that if I put the trans in tip mode I could use 1st and 2nd gears without a problem but when I tried to shift to 3rd it would stumble and go into limp mode.

Using just 1st and 2nd I was able to get off the highway onto US40 and continue, at a reduced rate, on my way home. After going over the mountain west of Clear Spring I was able to coast downhill and pick up some good speed. After coasting and driving it carefully in 1st and 2nd for several miles I found that if I kept the RPM's above 2k I could shift up thru the rest of the gears without a problem. If I went below 2K and tried to shift the engine would stumble and if I wasn't careful go into limp mode again. But I was able to keep my speed up and made it the rest of the way home (40 miles).

I had the car towed into the shop (Sharrett VW in Hagerstown) on Friday. They did a quick code pull but couldn't do anything more. The initial codes pulled were

P0016 - Camshaft Position Sensor / Engine Speed Sensor Incorrect Correlation
P21490 - Fuel Injector Circuit Open

On Tuesday they drove it checked it out some more they found one more code P13D000 which is a Glow Plug Implausible Signal.

So they repaired the car, the timing was off by 1 tooth, so they say, and replaced the #1 glow plug. I picked the car up Tuesday evening and drove it home without any more problems or stumbling.

Hopefully this is the end of it. They said that if it has any more problems there may be a fuel injector going bad - especially if the injector code is thrown again.
 

ChadS99SVT

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2012
Location
Parker, CO
TDI
2013 Passat TDI DSG
thanks for sharing. What's your miles up to now? 140K? :cool:

At least for the most part it sounds like the fix was pretty painless.

Is there just 4 injectors on this car? I'm guessing they are not cheap if one goes.

how much was the glowplug replacement?
 

TheGrove

TDIClub Enthusiast, Veteran Member
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Location
S Central PA (Breezewood)
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2012 Passat SEL Premium Opera Red - Dieselgate Fix, KermaTDI Tune, 2004 Passat GLS Northern Green-RIP
137K miles right now. Yes there are only 4 injectors and I'm sure they are not cheap since they do more than just inject it sounds like (other sensors in the injector).

The glow plug was $176 for the plug and $95 for labor. Supposedly the glow plug has sensors in it as well. The expensive part of the repair was the retiming at $398.
 

jrm

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Jul 24, 2013
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Oregon
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2013 Passat SE with nav (totaled)
They monitor compression in real time. Who changed your timing belt?
 

TheGrove

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S Central PA (Breezewood)
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2012 Passat SEL Premium Opera Red - Dieselgate Fix, KermaTDI Tune, 2004 Passat GLS Northern Green-RIP
Timing belt was changed at 120K by Oilhammer. It is possible he was off by the tooth, but I doubt it. Also I've had the 130K service done since then and unless they didn't scan for codes (which is probably true) they should have seen the code then.

Also if the timing was the ultimate culprit why did it take 17,000 miles to show up? My guess is the glow plug was the problem and while the timing may have been off it wasn't enough to affect the running.
 

ChadS99SVT

Veteran Member
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2013 Passat TDI DSG
Thanks for the info.

kind of on the same subject. Are these engines interferance engines at all? If the timing belt goes is it going to cause major damage to the engine??

Just curious.
 

Rico567

Top Post Dawg
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Jun 13, 2003
Location
Central IL
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2013 Passat TDI SEL Premium (Turned in 7/7/18)
Thanks for the info.

kind of on the same subject. Are these engines interferance engines at all? If the timing belt goes is it going to cause major damage to the engine??

Just curious.
Yep. Lots of interference engines out there, too.
 

jrm

Veteran Member
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Location
Oregon
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2013 Passat SE with nav (totaled)
Now that I think about it, your timing almost couldn't have been off- these engines are ultra-interference as when at TDC the valves hit a piston when rolling the cam either way by even 1 tooth. If this was true it would have completely destroyed at least one cylinder.
 

TheGrove

TDIClub Enthusiast, Veteran Member
Joined
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Location
S Central PA (Breezewood)
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2012 Passat SEL Premium Opera Red - Dieselgate Fix, KermaTDI Tune, 2004 Passat GLS Northern Green-RIP
Yeah my thoughts as well.

Anyhow unfortunately the problem came back last night just as I was about to exit the interstate. I got home without a problem but the engine had a definite stumble in it. Back to get it serviced again.:(
 

VeeDubTDI

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‘18 Tesla Model 3D+, ‘14 Cadillac ELR, ‘13 Fiat 500e
Interesting experience, Bill! It's perplexing that they say your timing was off by a tooth. It sounds to me more like an intermittent electrical issue, perhaps a bad position sensor or a tone wheel with gunk on it.
 

TheGrove

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Joined
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S Central PA (Breezewood)
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2012 Passat SEL Premium Opera Red - Dieselgate Fix, KermaTDI Tune, 2004 Passat GLS Northern Green-RIP
I would agree, or even that the stumbling was causing false readings.

So I forgot to post over the weekend that it stumbled and went into limp mode again Friday just as I was about to get off the interstate. I got it the 10 miles from the interstate home with a few more stumbles but no more limp mode. Had it towed back to the shop Saturday.

I need to get the exact code but the message was about the B+ voltage open. The shop called VW's support line and their recommendation is to replace the wiring harnes as they have seen that problem with bad harnesses. Hopefully I'll get it back from the 2nd round today.
 

VeeDubTDI

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Early on, people were noticing that one harness (not sure which one) was in a location that could cause chafing. Perhaps this (or similar) is causing your problem.
 

TheGrove

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Joined
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Location
S Central PA (Breezewood)
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2012 Passat SEL Premium Opera Red - Dieselgate Fix, KermaTDI Tune, 2004 Passat GLS Northern Green-RIP
Got it back yesterday. Forgot to ask about the chafing. We'll see how it goes I'm not going to call it fixed unless it goes until the 140K service in 2,500 miles.
 

psd1

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Location
OR
TDI
2006 Jetta 2013 Passat SE 6Man
Thanks for keeping us updated, you are one of the high mileage guys and this is a little depressing for all of us who hoped that things like this wouldn't occur.

I think everyone was hopeful that VW had cleaned up their electronics, maybe wishful thinking?
 

jrm

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Location
Oregon
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2013 Passat SE with nav (totaled)
I just recently had the hoods on my 2010 Accord and NMS open side by side. Honda has tons more rubber and wire protecting flexible conduit under the hood while the NMS just runs 18GA wire to sensors ( mostly ones behind the battery and one to the coolant reservoir ) This caught my eye on the dealer lot, but didn't really bother me to much. We will see in a half million miles as every one of my cars turns over the big 500K at some point in its life before I give them to charity. If my 1988 Hyundai made it to 503,000 miles without the head ever coming off (amsoil) I would expect the NMS to as well.
 

TheGrove

TDIClub Enthusiast, Veteran Member
Joined
May 17, 2006
Location
S Central PA (Breezewood)
TDI
2012 Passat SEL Premium Opera Red - Dieselgate Fix, KermaTDI Tune, 2004 Passat GLS Northern Green-RIP
Interesting experience, Bill! It's perplexing that they say your timing was off by a tooth. It sounds to me more like an intermittent electrical issue, perhaps a bad position sensor or a tone wheel with gunk on it.
Thinking about this over the last couple weeks and I'm wondering if the "tooth" they meant was the position sensor and not the timing belt. I could see possibly the sensor, if it has teeth, as it's teeth would be much closer together.

Got it back yesterday. Forgot to ask about the chafing. We'll see how it goes I'm not going to call it fixed unless it goes until the 140K service in 2,500 miles.
So I did the 140k service Wednesday (actual mileage 141,640). Knock on wood I have not had a problem since they replaced the wiring harnes. My belief at this point is there was a chafing issue and replacing the harness fixed that problem.
 

Ace Deprave

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May 29, 2012
Location
Louisiana
TDI
Former owner of a 2012 Passat SE TDI (traded for a 2015 Golf R)
So I did the 140k service Wednesday (actual mileage 141,640). Knock on wood I have not had a problem since they replaced the wiring harnes. My belief at this point is there was a chafing issue and replacing the harness fixed that problem.
That's great to hear!
 
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