Am I a member of the club everyone loves to hate?

[steve05ram360]

I'm not sure I buy the failure was caused by the lift pump... The way I see it... lift pump runs dry, rail pressure drops, power drops then motor stalls. What would make sense to me is the HPFP blows, debris gets into the tank and sucked into the lift pump jamming it, then the knock from the tech loosens the debris and pump starts back up. If the secondary pump has enough pull to draw fuel thru the filter & lift pump then it might still have enough pressure to keep the motor running but power would be down. I've seen this on the ram where the lift pump is dead but the CP3 continues to draw fuel & it runs but under higher fuel demands it just rattles. Different setup I know but the low fuel pressure effects would be similar I think...

 

[texnkeroburner]

sucks Canada plays like that

Here in the US General Motors is getting raked over the coals for airbags and ignition switches. Seems that should be a wakeup call for VW to do something about a power killing defect. If millions are fined for just a key switch shutting off the motor I can't imagine how they'd react when someone dies because of a crap pump they've known about for years now.

 

[geodug]

Right now I'm waiting on a call back from VW Canada. I did ring them yesterday & pled my case. I'm told I should hear something today or tomorrow. The fact the car had a dead lift pump had the dealer & I thinking it starved the HPFP.

I'll keep the thread updated

I am from Canada too and feeling your pain. The price for fixing this problem in Canada or the US is too high and that's why so much discussion on these forums.

There must be crate engines available that could cost less than $8K to $13K to swap out in our cars. Anybody have any intel on that?

 

[PlaneCrazy]

sucks Canada plays like that

Here in the US General Motors is getting raked over the coals for airbags and ignition switches. Seems that should be a wakeup call for VW to do something about a power killing defect. If millions are fined for just a key switch shutting off the motor I can't imagine how they'd react when someone dies because of a crap pump they've known about for years now.

It wasn't just the key shutting off the motor. When the car would go out of control, the faulty switch would kill the ignition due to the movement of the keys. Problem is, that disabled everything including the airbags, so when the out-of-control car collided with something like a tree or bridge abutment, the airbags wouldn't deploy.

At least that's how I understand the problem. That's a lot different from just cruising down the highway and the engine suddenly dies. That can happen for any manner of (non-recallable) reasons such as simply running out of fuel.

We tried the "bad things can happen if the engine dies" routine with the balance shaft issue on the B5.5 Passats. Got us exactly nowhere.

That said, agree, really sux that VW Canada takes this attitude.

 

[53 willys]

I'm not sure I buy the failure was caused by the lift pump... The way I see it... lift pump runs dry, rail pressure drops, power drops then motor stalls. What would make sense to me is the HPFP blows, debris gets into the tank and sucked into the lift pump jamming it, then the knock from the tech loosens the debris and pump starts back up. If the secondary pump has enough pull to draw fuel thru the filter & lift pump then it might still have enough pressure to keep the motor running but power would be down. I've seen this on the ram where the lift pump is dead but the CP3 continues to draw fuel & it runs but under higher fuel demands it just rattles. Different setup I know but the low fuel pressure effects would be similar I think...

I have had a suspicion about lift pump failures on these cars coming from my experience with cummins vp44 injection pumps and cp3....we have had many injection pumps and cp3 pumps fail from bad lift pumps...the injection pump and cp3 still have the suction power to supply the engine what it needs to run normal but it lacks the fuel volume to lube the pump and slowly starves the pumps to death.

We see this often at our fleet shop and after my vw failed I was suspect of that more then bad fuel...nobody knows if this is the case with vw cr's because 99% of the dealers never check the lift pumps.

 

[steve05ram360]

I have had a suspicion about lift pump failures on these cars coming from my experience with cummins vp44 injection pumps and cp3....we have had many injection pumps and cp3 pumps fail from bad lift pumps...the injection pump and cp3 still have the suction power to supply the engine what it needs to run normal but it lacks the fuel volume to lube the pump and slowly starves the pumps to death.

We see this often at our fleet shop and after my vw failed I was suspect of that more then bad fuel...nobody knows if this is the case with vw cr's because 99% of the dealers never check the lift pumps.

Yeah you do bring up an excellent point on the VP44 pumps... forgot about that. I dont recall what was happening when the VP's failed, can you tell me what happened? All I recall was a dead truck with no fuel pressure (no other parts required other than the VP44 to bring it back up)...?

 

[53 willys]

Yeah you do bring up an excellent point on the VP44 pumps... forgot about that. I dont recall what was happening when the VP's failed, can you tell me what happened? All I recall was a dead truck with no fuel pressure (no other parts required other than the VP44 to bring it back up)...?

Most guys never knew they had a bad lift pump with the vp44 trucks until they changed their fuel filter and then could never get them to reprime or the vp44 just stopped sucking fuel and creating high pressure.

I have seen the same thing happen with our cp3 pump Cummins as well.....and the cp3 pump is way more resilient then tye cp4 in our veedubs.

The good about the vp44 and cp3 is all you needed to repair it was a new lift pump and a injection pump.....they did not cause a total fuel system failure.

 

[d2305]

Wonder what would happen if you towed it here http://www.walkervolkswagenvt.com/

 

[NovaMoto]

I rang VW corporate back after waiting 72h (they said they would have a decision for me after 48h) & after a short while the agent said I must speak with the original agent as they 'required more information'. I left a couple of messages but have yet to reach said agent.

And so it continues

 

[NovaMoto]

It's been a week now and VW corp continue to ignore my calls.

 

[2011tdiproject]

NovaMoto, keep your head up, not to sound cliche, but I'm sure you'll figure it out one way or another.
I also had my lift pump go out, which just about gave me a heart attack, due to the shrieking, grinding, horrible noise the second electric pump was making, and symptoms that mimicked a failing hpfp exactly, while I was in the middle of nowhere in a snowstorm. But my hpfp is still good, all it needed was a new lift pump and fuel filter. I hope the hpfp wasn't hurt by that though!

I find the advertised cost of the hpfp repairs to be absolutely insane, especially when you can buy a whole motor/powertrain used with low mileage for only a few grand.

If this ever does happen to me, it's cp3 swap time. People say the cp3s can pump fuel with water in it and still not fail.

 

[53 willys]

NovaMoto, keep your head up, not to sound cliche, but I'm sure you'll figure it out one way or another.
I also had my lift pump go out, which just about gave me a heart attack, due to the shrieking, grinding, horrible noise the second electric pump was making, and symptoms that mimicked a failing hpfp exactly, while I was in the middle of nowhere in a snowstorm. But my hpfp is still good, all it needed was a new lift pump and fuel filter. I hope the hpfp wasn't hurt by that though!

I find the advertised cost of the hpfp repairs to be absolutely insane, especially when you can buy a whole motor/powertrain used with low mileage for only a few grand.

If this ever does happen to me, it's cp3 swap time. People say the cp3s can pump fuel with water in it and still not fail.

Cp3 is a great pump no doubt... but wont fit where the cp4 on our car mounts.....
I know 2micron tried a cp3 but I dont think it ended up being a practical option.
There is a thread in the mk5 section where some are trying a different version of the cp4..

 

[geodug]

It's been a week now and VW corp continue to ignore my calls.

We all should be disappointed by this. VW corporate needs to step up and deal with you honestly.

 

[gmcjetpilot]

get a used motor, 2500$ or so, another grand to install. scr3w 13000$$!!!

The motor is GREAT... it is the fuel system that is shot...

HPFP and Injectors would likely come with a used engine, but swapping engines is a lot more than changing out the HPFP and injectors.

The labor to swap engines is about $2000 not a thousand... And if you swap the motor you would still need to clean out the fuel lines, fuel tank and replace all the electrical pumps, tank and aux pump under-hood...


PS if want their attention, get a lawyer on retainer and have them send a demand letter. If that does not work, take them to court.

 

[NovaMoto]

VW Corp just called. They won't cover any of the damage. The car is 20k km out of warranty & the dealer determined the car had been improperly fueled.

I'm going to approach the service manager this afternoon & find out how he determined that. I want to see the proof.

 

[Wolf359]

Did you ever hear anything from/about the Shell you last fueled up at?

Sorry to hear about your continued woes with VW Corp, that's really awful of them.

 

[squeegee_boy]

And you wonder why....

http://www.fool.com/investing/gener...r-guess-what-car-brand-finished-dead-las.aspx

 

[turbovan+tdi]

That sucks, so sorry to read all these HPFP failures. To me, its actually disgusting that it even got this far. I have never been a VW fanboy until my 2000 Jetta but now with the way they treat everyone, and the cost, I'll never buy a new car from them.

 

[NovaMoto]

So the dealer confirmed they said no such thing to VW Canada with regard to suspect mis-fueling. I saw the dealer email correspondence myself. Their investigation was inconclusive as stated by the dealer service manager.

This is what we're dealing with, folks. Denial, lies.
I've personally convinced my parents, spouse, coworkers and friends to buy these cars. That's 8 vehicles total in 7 years. This is how we're being treated by VW Canada.

I've pulled a sample of fuel from the car under witness and have sent it for analyses. Once I have results I will approach CBC's Go Public. Let's see how VW reacts to that.

 

[2.2TDI]

That's just sad... I love VW's but this makes me not want to buy another one... I would personally got to end's meet to make sure I got my car fixed, sue if you have too but whatever you do, please don't let them win, just don't. Big corporations shouldn't be allowed to stomp and crushus like ants when we pay so much money for a car, service, etc...

 

[NovaMoto]

It makes me sad too. I was test driving Honda's and Toyota's on the weekend. None of them are as nice as my Golf. It really sucks VW are leaving me high and dry on a 3 year old car.

 

[tdi90hp]

sad to here Nova....I bailed at 108,000kms out of my 11 Golf Highline.... into a 14 Mazda 3 6 speed....VWs are a blast..I LOVE them......UNDER warranty...CRs are a dangerous item out of warranty especially in Canuck land. VW basically has now told a few of us Canadians to bite me when the pumps blow....Whatever decisions you make remember that a used engine may have a bad pump now or soon...and rebuilding your fuel system does NOT guarantee you anything this month next month next year. I know what I would do. Used motor and BAIL. My M3 gets fabulous gas mileage and is fun to drive. Good option IMHO.We will see what the Mark 7 brings....

 

[tdi90hp]

and you should read my thread in fuel Economy and how many members railed about the HUGE depreciation hit I take when move cars every 3 years,,,,uh huh......VW USA has been stepping up....NOT VW Canada...all CR Canadian owners should smoke on that for awhile as soon a you cross 80,000kms.

 

[PlaneCrazy]

I'm at 113k kms and am one of the ones VW told to buzz off when I complained about my pump supposedly needing replacement at just over 90k kms... with the power train warranty still in effect. VW Canada doesn't consider the HPFP as part of the power train. What a load. But they didn't change the system end to end and as it turns out that didn't even solve the problem I was complaining about.

I now have a love-hate relationship with my Golf. It's great to drive, comfortable, easy on fuel. But reliability and customer-service wise it's been near the bottom of the heap. On the other hand my wife's '13 wagon has been perfect so far.

So far:

Subframe bushings when the car was nearly new, warranty
Intercooler icing-installed kit when car was less than 1 year old warranty
Catastrophic coolant loss when car was 1 year old, caused by improper installation of IC kit, dealer it was towed to had dealer that did the TSB pick up the tab
Seized right rear caliper when car was just over one year old, warranty
Seized left rear caliper when car was just over 2 years old, paid out of pocket
Sudden, nearly complete loss of power at full throttle (i.e. when overtaking); first attempt to correct problem was changing the HPFP (partly at my expense, VW picked offered 2/3 of a reman pump, but ended up paying 50% of a new pump)
Multiple attempts to solve problem failed, it still exists.
Edit: forgot, also exhaust flap replaced (under extended warranty)

Now there's a loud rattle from the rear suspension. I took out the spare tire and tools to see if that was the cause. No luck. And it sounds like I might be developing a bad wheel bearing.

Alas I'm unemployed at the moment and the car is completely paid for, so I am going to just have to cross my fingers; for $13k you can almost get a brand-new car ($13.9k for a Hyundai Accent hatch; the sedan is even cheaper, and you can get a Nissan Micra for $10k).

But it sure is fun to drive

 

[ticketed2much]

sad to here Nova....I bailed at 108,000kms out of my 11 Golf Highline.... into a 14 Mazda 3 6 speed....VWs are a blast..I LOVE them......UNDER warranty...CRs are a dangerous item out of warranty especially in Canuck land. VW basically has now told a few of us Canadians to bite me when the pumps blow....Whatever decisions you make remember that a used engine may have a bad pump now or soon...and rebuilding your fuel system does NOT guarantee you anything this month next month next year. I know what I would do. Used motor and BAIL. My M3 gets fabulous gas mileage and is fun to drive. Good option IMHO.We will see what the Mark 7 brings....

I don't think you don't need a used engine. Someone I know recently bought a TDI with a bad HPFP and did the work himself for $2K in parts. If you can find a local TDI mechanic, you could probably get it done under $4k. This time put a 2micron filter on it, if I lived in Canada I would have one on the day my car went out of warranty.

 

[NovaMoto]

So I bought a '12 Civic SI as replacement. Easy to work on & should be more reliable. I sold my beloved Golf for parts. Lost my shirt on the deal along with all respect for VW Canada.

 

[PlaneCrazy]

So I bought a '12 Civic SI as replacement. Easy to work on & should be more reliable. I sold my beloved Golf for parts. Lost my shirt on the deal along with all respect for VW Canada.

Well good luck, the SI should be a relatively fun ride. I'd consider a Civic when it's time to trade my Golf but I need a hatch for the road bike...

 

[MEIN_VW]

So is this HPFP issue one of those situations where buying an extended warranty wouldn't be a waste of money? Provided said warranty covered the HPFP failure?

 

[turbovan+tdi]

So I bought a '12 Civic SI as replacement. Easy to work on & should be more reliable. I sold my beloved Golf for parts. Lost my shirt on the deal along with all respect for VW Canada.

Wow, sorry to read that, wow,

What did CBC or any other news program say?

So is this HPFP issue one of those situations where buying an extended warranty wouldn't be a waste of money? Provided said warranty covered the HPFP failure?

Call them, ask if its covered. How much is the extended warranty? The price will dictate if its worth buying.

 

[disco biscuit]

So if we don't mind can I drag some info outta this? Mine has had a noisey secondary pump which I have always referred to as auxilary. I always thought it came on during high demand situations. Its the pump on the passenger side top of wheel well in engine compartment.

Was the O.P.'s secondary pump making groaning noises. Mine has always made some noise but just at certain times...it got worst. A fitting on mine leaked, I took a pair of pliers and tightened it up slightly and the noise seemed to get a little bit louder. A couple months after that I got a letter from VW saying there was a recall for a fuel leak on the aux fuel pump and it requires the fitting of vibration dampners. I plan to go this week early and have them look at it. But I'm wanting to tie all his type problems to this fuel pump recall. I understood the recall went through due to fuel leaking in the engine bay. It sprayed pretty good in mine for a couple days before the old lady noticed it.

...thoughts?