First owner car, possible accident and clear title?

mrrhtuner

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Mar 29, 2011
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London Ont Canada
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2003 Jetta Wagon TDI, 2015 Passat TDI, 2015 Touareg TDI
Hey guys, I am looking at a one owner car from a fellow polak and I am a bit worried that the car could have been in an accident but the title remained clear.

If an accident occurred and the insurance company choose to fix it...from what I remember the title would stay clear (not rebuilt).

If the car was totalled by the insurance company, then it would be either rebuilt (if repaired) or irreparable.

The reasons for my concern are:

-Polish car owner, claims to be selling the car because children can't drive standard but also has a pickup for sale.
-Claims he is the original owner and claims it wasn't in any accidents.

Nothing bad about my fellow countrymen but I know that most tend to dabble in rebuilding cars.

I know I will be inspecting the car for any shady repair work by the frame/rear and sides but I am wondering if Carfax or those VIN reportings services would have knowledge of a car accident if the damage was repaired and the car title kept clean.


Does anybody have a suggestion/advice that they could share?
 

steve6

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Get a carfax, it would show if insurance reported an accident. Not every accident is bad enough to brand the ownership. Any frame repair the ownership should have it branded.
 

strikeraj

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Oakville,ON
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2004 Golf TDI.... FINALLY
you can quickly google online
there are some links that goes through the dealership system that you can use to check the VIN for free
 

mrrhtuner

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2003 Jetta Wagon TDI, 2015 Passat TDI, 2015 Touareg TDI
But would an insurance company have to report the accident if they will cover the repair and the vehicle is not branded? Our old 2000 BMW had 7k worth of front end damage and the title never changed from what I remember.
 

Windex

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Not all accidents get reported.

I personally don't trust carfax reports any more than a cereal box to be a complete and accurate reporting of a vehicle's history.

Best defense is a complete inspection by a qualified mechanic.
 

mo_focus

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stouffville, Ontario, canada
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What is it you are buying? Get vin and as others have said just google it.

I know some vw models have dates stamped at various parts, that could be checked to see if its changed.

If seller bought an accident car from joe blow on kijiji then there will be no records of it. Carfax cant help.
 

imo000

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The damage usually has to be about 80% of the car's value before an insurance company would brand the car. Are there any signs of body repair? If you don't know how to check this, get someone that does.
 

amightymouse

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Erin, Ontario, Canada
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Jetta, 2002, Baltic Green Pearl
Get a full inspection of the vehicle done to confirm the cars pedigree with respect to any accident repairs and general condition. Sure a minor fender bender may not be detectable if it was repaired outside of the insurance co.
 

Brooklin Express

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Brooklin, Ontario
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2003 TDI jetta Wagon 5spd 2014 Audi Q 5 TDI
I had my other car checked vin # and it all came back clear no accidents. After buying the car and driving it home and changing all the fluids and taking the spare tire out. I noticed that the car had been rear end, I called the old owner up and of course he said he didnt know anything.
Looking back I realized how he staged the car I got caught up finding the car looked in perfect shape for a 2 year old car. This guy was buying and fixing car from his home.
The cars accident was never reported so the vin# came back Clear.
So lesson learned bring the car to a good body shop and have them look at the car before buying it.
 

steve6

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The OP said 'First Owner' so the idea of curbsidding shouldn't be relative here, just make sure the first owner is the one selling it? Not someone selling it while its still in someone elses name. At the end of the day, all the paperwork trail can mean nothing, get it checked yourself if its a significant investment.
 

mrrhtuner

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The OP said 'First Owner' so the idea of curbsidding shouldn't be relative here, just make sure the first owner is the one selling it? Not someone selling it while its still in someone elses name. At the end of the day, all the paperwork trail can mean nothing, get it checked yourself if its a significant investment.
Thank you. It will be a larger purchase then I've ever made before for a car so I want to make sure its fine. I did do some research and found the previous owners current and previous address. The previous address shows the car on the driveway via google maps.

He said he switched insurance companies recently and had to do the safety on the car.



I plan to check the frame rails by the engine, normally if it's been repaired they will look beat slightly. I also plan to check the trunk where the spare tire is for any rear end accidents.

Will be going to view the car tomorrow so fingers crossed!
 

P2B

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If an accident occurred and the insurance company choose to fix it...from what I remember the title would stay clear (not rebuilt).
Correct

If the car was totalled by the insurance company, then it would be either rebuilt (if repaired) or irreparable.
Not necessarily. The rules say they have to brand the car if it is written off AND has structural damage, where structural damage is defined in the rules.

Windex said:
I personally don't trust carfax reports any more than a cereal box to be a complete and accurate reporting of a vehicle's history.
+1

My '98 TDI was written off twice by the same insurance company. Both times I took a cash settlement and fixed it. It still has a clean title and a clean carfax report.

Simon
 

Wingnut

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Safety for insurance??? Never heard of that before. Sounds like he is feeding you some BS there.

Does the seller have the UVIP? It is required whenever selling a vehicle, so he should. It lists all previous registered owners. So his name should be the only one on there except for the dealer that sold it when new. Ask to see it, or spend the $20 yourself and get one from the MTO. You will need the VIN to get the UVIP.
 

jeff_vapelane

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If it was in an accident in the past and it was repaired by an insurance company, it will be on record on CarProof / Carfax. If it was in a fender bender and the repairs never went through insurance (cash deal), you'll never see it in any history reports. Unfortunately, there's no way to find out if it was in a non-reported fender bender, unless you bring a device and measure each panel's paint thickness for any deviation.

The vehicle brand will stay "none" as long as the insurance company never wrote off the vehicle.
 

mrrhtuner

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If it was in an accident in the past and it was repaired by an insurance company, it will be on record on CarProof / Carfax. If it was in a fender bender and the repairs never went through insurance (cash deal), you'll never see it in any history reports. Unfortunately, there's no way to find out if it was in a non-reported fender bender, unless you bring a device and measure each panel's paint thickness for any deviation.

The vehicle brand will stay "none" as long as the insurance company never wrote off the vehicle.


That is what I was after. I should have re-clarified what I was asking.

I realize if a fender bender happens and it was never reported to the insurance company I realize it won't be on there.

My main concern is if the fender bender happened and insurance company repaired the car but kept the clean title, would it show on a report.
 

jeff_vapelane

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Milton, ON
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My main concern is if the fender bender happened and insurance company repaired the car but kept the clean title, would it show on a report.
It should. Any repair that was reported and paid for by the insurance company will be on CarProof / Carfax, even if it was a minor dent pull or a fuel door repaint.

Basically, all accident repair (claims) that went through insurance will be revelead in CarProof / Carfax, including (and specially) write offs. Anything that was dealt with in cash (no report), you're gonna have to trust your eyes and take the seller's word.
 

Wingnut

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Carproof would be a much better choice for a Canadian car. It picks up a lot more info than Carfax. Because it is a Canadian company, it has more resources and is affiliated with more companies/agencies for reporting. There was an example on another forum that showed 2 reports for the same VIN. The Carproof report showed a $20,000 repair, the Carfax report was clean.

Having said that, the only way a claim is going to show on Carproof is if the repair was paid through insurance. If a car was written off and repaired by the owner out of pocket, or a cash settlement with the at fault party, there will be no record. Body shops do not report repairs.

Carproof is a good tool, but nothing beats a detailed inspection from someone who knows what they are looking at.
 
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imo000

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Minor fender benders are not a big deal as most cars will have it at soke point in their time, the big ones are what you want to stay away from. If thisnis a fairly new car and is prices lower than all in the market then it probably has some fishy story behind it. Some people sell cars for bodynshops but pretend to be private sellers. This is not exactly the same as a curbsider....these are much worse. I buy fix and sell the odd car every now and then but I don't hide anything. Honesty goes a long way.
 

993er

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I personally don't trust Carfax reports...
I can't believe so many people do.

I was over at a friend's place earlier today and ran my paint thickness gauge on all body panels because I could not believe 18 year old paint with 160K kilometers could look that good.

Sure enough, the driver's door and whole roof had substantially thicker paint than the rest of the car. His Carfax does not report anything.
 

yatzee

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in the end, just because a panel or 2 has been repaired doesn't mean the car should be avoided. It all comes down to how much damage was done to the vehicle and if it was repaired properly or not.
 

Doc_Oc

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Orangeville, Ontario
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I was under the impression that even quotes from body shops (reputable ones) show on carproof.
With the VIN number, call a dealer and ask them to check it. I was looking into a 2009 Audi A4 and when I called the dealer they told me minor frame touch up shows for that VIN. Again, Carfax didn't show anything. The owner didn't know about that either. He was the 4th owner though.
 

993er

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in the end, just because a panel or 2 has been repaired doesn't mean the car should be avoided.
Some buyers might want a car that is 100% original paint.

It also depends how that panel or 2 was repaired. Most if not all body shops do a repair to "look good". In many cases the repair starts to rust far sooner than original sections of the car.
 

mrrhtuner

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Well I'm going to pass on the car.

They wouldn't take 2k cash and the rest (5500) via cheque and my bank (PC financial) is super slow with bank drafts.

Oh well, time to find something else.
 

imo000

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Its possible that the panel respray was done because of damage from delivery when the car was brand new. You would be suprised how much repairs a dealer can do to a car even if its new and the owner will never be told.
 

993er

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Its possible that the panel respray was done because of damage from delivery when the car was brand new. You would be surprised how much repairs a dealer can do to a car even if its new and the owner will never be told.
I know. I worked for two VW dealerships.

That is why I brought my Defelsko paint thickness gauge with me when I picked up my new 2013 Jetta. ;)
 

petea4

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Well I'm going to pass on the car.

They wouldn't take 2k cash and the rest (5500) via cheque and my bank (PC financial) is super slow with bank drafts.

Oh well, time to find something else.

Sounds like your bank failed you. Why use them if they cannot address your needs?

I know. I worked for two VW dealerships.

That is why I brought my Defelsko paint thickness gauge with me when I picked up my new 2013 Jetta. ;)
Good idea.
 

deflux

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Niagara, ON
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you can get certified cheque at any cibc branch.
Unless that changed recently it's not true. I left PC a while ago because I decided that paying no fees wasn't worth having no service. CIBC branches aren't able to help PC customers.
 
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