VCDS Mobile email notification this morning...

[Uwe]

I think NO PC is going to be where more of us are in the next few years.

Personally, I don't see having NO PC in my lifetime. Use a tablet or even my phone on the go? Sure. But when I sit down at my desk (either in my office or at home) to get real work done, or even just to pursue my own interests, there will be a real keyboard, a real mouse, and a large monitor there. In a few more years, I could see the "PC" that drives these peripherals being a phone-sized device that you can also use stand-alone with its own touch screen, but when it comes to getting things done in a fixed location, a touch screen is no substitute for an old-school keyboard, a precision pointing device, and a large monitor.

 

[tadawson]

No PC and no internet? Sorry but we're almost half way into the second decade of the 21st century, when most people do have one or the other. If you have neither, then I apologize that we don't have a product for you, but no one product can meet everyone's needs.

-Uwe-

I have a PC (does nothing more than VCDS, though . . . Everything else I do works better elsewhere), and I have Internet *IN THE HOUSE*. Coverage out to where I work is spotty at best, and I have no desire to $pend even more to accommodate your design choices.

My point, more speaking for others is that non-Windows environments are getting more plentiful by the day, and for those who work outside, Internet coverage is not a given, even if you have the best service in the world in the house.

Think *OUTSIDE* the dedicated repair shop environment, and the issues rapidly become visible. Roadside repair (or remote location) that needs coding and no PC? ==>> BONED! Even though all the parts are capable. How about 30 mins (or whatever) capability off net at the last validated level before bricking?

- Tim

 

[tadawson]

Personally, I don't see having NO PC in my lifetime. Use a tablet or even my phone on the go? Sure. But when I sit down at my desk (either in my office or at home) to get real work done, or even just to pursue my own interests, there will be a real keyboard, a real mouse, and a large monitor there. In a few more years, I could see the "PC" that drives these peripherals being a phone-sized device that you can also use stand-alone with its own touch screen, but when it comes to getting things done in a fixed location, a touch screen is no substitute for an old-school keyboard, a precision pointing device, and a large monitor.

To most in this day and age, PC == Personal Computer, not Windows box, and in that context, I too have a beast of a system, but no Windows . . . All it offered me was more cost and less performance and less stability, so I gleefully walked away over 10 years ago. I do agree with real keyboard, though . . . Typing on tablets sucks, even though I spend a fair amount of time on one.

- Tim

 

[MonsterTDI09]

Does it ping the mother ship the hole time in use and how manny MB it use I was just thinking you use it like a scan gauge threw your phone or tablet. Dose it have a new screen for the car vitals. It would be real cool if it had indicator when the car in regen. I guess you can't have it go threw a garman.

 

[oilhammer]

To most in this day and age, PC == Personal Computer, not Windows box, and in that context, I too have a beast of a system, but no Windows . . . All it offered me was more cost and less performance and less stability, so I gleefully walked away over 10 years ago.
- Tim

Now I see the problem. Heck, a lot has changed in 10 years.

But seriously, what Windows problems are you speaking of? My machines die of old age related to hardware LONG before any software problems. I've only ever had one Windows machine totally die, and that was (at the time) an 11 year old IBM Thinkpad running Windows 2000 that I had been using here at the shop and its battery finally would not hold a charge anymore.

The machine I am typing on now is cobbled together from leftover parts, running Windows 7, an early version at that, that has all the updates turned off... and it has never ONCE updated, since I installed it, never crashed, never done squat... and this machine is running 24/7, all the time, in a shop with no A/C and it gets below 50 here in the winter sometimes. Both the case fans are clogged full of grit and who knows what, the keyboard is filthy, the mouse is filthy, pretty sure I splashed DSG oil on it last week because now it is slippery... but it is still working fine, same as all the other Windows machines we have here.

If this machine caught fire, today, right now, right in front of me, I'd just cobble something else together for free from spare parts, load whichever version of Windows I could scrounge up for cheap, and move on. Who cares?

My gaming machines have all never had an issue either, and some of those endure 24+ hours straight of heavy duty heat intensive stuff, even had a few MoBo heat sensor alarms go off... but Windows (I have 2 XP SE machines, a 7 machine, and even a 2003 Server machine) has never once so much as peeped.

And I am certainly no operating system expert, but if I can make it work, I'd sure think most anyone can.

BTW, all our shop machines (all running Windows) have all been working perfect and the current crop is nearing 4 years old... never turned off either.

So where exactly is this "expensive instability" you speak of? I can't find it. And I am not trying to be confrontational, I really just don't see what Windows/Microsoft haters are seeing here.

 

[romad]

And will I be able to produce and render 3D AutoCad drawings on a tablet?

That is what the "iPad Air 3D AC" will be able to do.

 

[wilcharl]

JSWTDI09:

I make sure I use the word Tablet because I have an iPad , an Android Tablet and a WebOS HP touchpad along with a "netbook" I use for my VCDS cable


As for the authentication, I don't know the answer, I just don't think the current scheme is the best..


1854Sailor no.. don't see you rendering AutoCad on a tablet, but I do have AutoCad WS on my tablet and pull up basic drawings at work on it. 3 years ago I would have thought that was a crazy idea...

 

[romad]

I really don't understand the hate for Windows. I must be missing something. I turn the machine on, it works, it does what it needs to do, always, every day, every time, year after year.

Unless it is Windows 1, 2, 3.11, Me, Vista, or 8.

 

[compu_85]

As much as I love watching the Mac vs. PC debate (really???), we should keep this thread on topic. I do have top agree with everything Uwe says in post #181 though

-J

 

[oilhammer]

There may be some truth in that, in that I've not ever had or built any machine with those versions. '95, '98, '98SE, 2000, XP, and 7. Lots of '98 and XP machines. I still have the original '98 machine that I built, it would probably still fire right up and work just fine. Plays Diablo II as good as anything! Maybe even better, because the older hardware and video drivers usually work better with the older games anyways. It even still has my 3Dfx Voodoo3 card installed!

 

[roostre]

I will probably never have a smart phone because of the monthly data plan fees and the limited cellular access where I live and prefer to travel.

I purchased an Android based Nexus 7 tablet for use with "Torque Pro" but unexpectedly have enjoyed it more just comparing it overall to my wife's iPad Mini. I don't have a Windows 8 desktop, laptop or tablet but there are some inexpensive tablet offerings like the Dell 32GB Venue 8 Pro for ~$249 that I would be interested in exploring for use with the HEX-NET adapter and as a bonus be able to compare a Windows 8 tablet to both the Nexus 7 and iPad for my own entertainment.

A Windows 8 tablet may offer the best compromise solution for me assuming I could load classic VCDS and connect to the HEX-NET adapter using "Access Point" mode to an "ad-hoc" network. This way I would have the full capabilities of VCDS anywhere and all the time without requiring cellular capabilities or internet access to the World Wide Web or even needing a WiFi router.

I would move the Windows 8 tablet in and out of the vehicle so I did not have to worry about the tablet being stolen and would not need to re-attach a cable when in the vehicle. I could then use the only Micro USB port on the tablet to keep the tablet charged instead of having to use this one USB port for connecting a cable to the HEX-NET adapter.

NOTE: I would still worry about the more valuable HEX-NET adapter being stolen when left in the vehicle, so I'll probably order the optional OBD-II right angle extension cable from Ross-Tech and securely attach and hide the HEX-NET adapter under the dash.

NOTE: I realize it may be possible to use an adapter cable to attach a Windows 8 tablet to the Micro-CAN directly instead of using WiFi on the HEX-NET and then I could use the $250 in savings to pay for the tablet. But I prefer the HEX-NET and If you want one, you accept the additional cost and enjoy it without trying to defend your choice by comparing it to other options or pretending you could not live without it.

QUESTIONS: My questions are not about VCDS-Mobile they are about classic VCDS. For those who have used classic VCDS on Windows 8 tablets:

1) How well does VCDS work on a Windows 8 tablets which have smaller displays than laptops and also do not have a mouse or keyboard?

2) Is it too easy to make a fumbled "tap" or "touch and hold" gesture that would mess you up when using VCDS on a tablet?

3) Did you need to purchase a more expensive tablet like the Microsoft Surface Pro which has additional full size USB ports or were you able to use tablets which have only one Micro USB port (whose purpose is mainly intended for charging the tablet)?

4) Were any special cables (like an OTG adapter) required to connect the Windows 8 tablet which has only one Micro USB port to the Ross-Tech Micro-CAN or HEX-USB+CAN products?

 

[romad]

No PC and no internet? Sorry but we're almost half way into the second decade of the 21st century, when most people do have one or the other. If you have neither, then I apologize that we don't have a product for you, but no one product can meet everyone's needs.

-Uwe-

I think he is referring to a scenario like this. You are at a GTG held in a location without WiFi and you only brought your Android/Kindle/iOS tablet. I have a desktop computer, a tablet, and a smartphone; nary a laptop computer. If there isn't a WiFi signal, then I can't access the Internet to connect to your server.

 

[romad]

To most in this day and age, PC == Personal Computer, not Windows box, and in that context, I too have a beast of a system, but no Windows . . . All it offered me was more cost and less performance and less stability, so I gleefully walked away over 10 years ago. I do agree with real keyboard, though . . . Typing on tablets sucks, even though I spend a fair amount of time on one.

- Tim

iPads can be used with a Bluetooth keyboard, and most likely so can Android & Kindle tablets.

 

[bhtooefr]

You will need a Windows 8 tablet, not a Windows RT tablet.

If the Micro-USB port is USB OTG, you may be able to use an OTG-to-host cable, but I'm not certain there.

 

[Santos_V]

You will need a Windows 8 tablet, not a Windows RT tablet.

If the Micro-USB port is USB OTG, you may be able to use an OTG-to-host cable, but I'm not certain there.

I tested this config on an Acer Iconia w8 tablet with a HEX+CAN interface. I had no issues with the software. I was very concerned with the micro-usb port breaking. It seems kinda flimsy.

 

[wilcharl]

Santos

this is great news I may seem like Mr. negative here but I'm glad to hear that the Legacy space product does work with a Windows 8 tablets (as long as it's running the full version of Windows 8 and not RT)

I can certainly deal with the corded cable plugged into the micro USB port on I four Windows tablet no issues there! portability with the traditional tethered cable works for me!!

 

[Uwe]

Think *OUTSIDE* the dedicated repair shop environment, and the issues rapidly become visible. Roadside repair (or remote location) that needs coding and no PC? ==>> BONED!

Please describe a roadside repair that actually requires coding. Personally, I can't think of one. Please remember, I drive nothing but VWs and Audis myself, and I personally would have no compunctions going on a month-long road-trip with just the capabilities that VCDS-Mobile has in stand-alone mode.

Even though all the parts are capable. How about 30 mins (or whatever) capability off net at the last validated level before bricking?

This isn't a question of authentication before allowing certain functionality; the functionality that's missing in stand-alone mode simply doesn't exist in VCDS-Mobile; that stuff is actually being done on the server.

I think he is referring to a scenario like this. You are at a GTG held in a location without WiFi and you only brought your Android/Kindle/iOS tablet.

Seriously? Who planned this GTG? The location was obviously chosen poorly and nobody thought to bring a laptop, or even a phone that can provide a hotspot?

 

[bhtooefr]

Well, a lot of GTGs are hosted at people's houses, and they may not want to hand out their wifi password, or it may not make it out to the garage or driveway. And cell service has been spotty at some GTGs I've been at.

But, then, I've not been to a wrenching GTG that someone didn't bring a laptop (and I usually bring one to wrenching GTGs that I attend), making the point completely moot.

 

[romad]

Please describe a roadside repair that actually requires coding. Personally, I can't think of one. Please remember, I drive nothing but VWs and Audis myself, and I personally would have no compunctions going on a month-long road-trip with just the capabilities that VCDS-Mobile has in stand-alone mode.


This isn't a question of authentication before allowing certain functionality; the functionality that's missing in stand-alone mode simply doesn't exist in VCDS-Mobile; that stuff is actually being done on the server.


Seriously? Who planned this GTG? The location was obviously chosen poorly and nobody thought to bring a laptop, or even a phone that can provide a hotspot?

Uwe, I've been to GTGs held in industrial areas where there is room for 40/50 cars that show up (not a lot of neighborhoods would welcome this number); the industrial buildings don't have ubiquitous WiFi. Those attendees that have the original VCDS will have their Windows laptops; those that DON'T have Windows laptops (you know, the ones you designed Hex-Net for) are SOL without a WiFi connection. As for using phones as hotspots, that is usually an extra monthly charge (assuming that 1. the phone can be used that way, and 2. the carrier allows it).

Hey, I have an idea: Why don't you, Santos, Bruce, et al, come out to the next Bay Area GTG and do a demo of the various ways Hex-Net can be connected to the Internet? That would be a great learning experience both ways.

BTW, will there be a Hex-Net User's Manual for download like the current VCDS manual, or will a Hex-Net section be added to the VCDS manual?

 

[bhtooefr]

Actually, most carriers allow free tethering on the capped plans (because Verizon was forced to by the FCC, and AT&T followed to stay in pricing lockstep with them), and the unlimited plans are seriously dying off now.

 

[romad]

I'm grandfathered in with my unlimited data plan on my phone so I don't want to lose it, had it for 7 years now.

 

[79TA7.6]

QUESTIONS: My questions are not about VCDS-Mobile they are about classic VCDS. For those who have used classic VCDS on Windows 8 tablets:

1) How well does VCDS work on a Windows 8 tablets which have smaller displays than laptops and also do not have a mouse or keyboard?

2) Is it too easy to make a fumbled "tap" or "touch and hold" gesture that would mess you up when using VCDS on a tablet?

3) Did you need to purchase a more expensive tablet like the Microsoft Surface Pro which has additional full size USB ports or were you able to use tablets which have only one Micro USB port (whose purpose is mainly intended for charging the tablet)?

4) Were any special cables (like an OTG adapter) required to connect the Windows 8 tablet which has only one Micro USB port to the Ross-Tech Micro-CAN or HEX-USB+CAN products?

Questions 3 and 4 seem to have been answered, so 1) I think it works great. The screen size is perfect on my Lenovo Thinkpad table 2. I have been using it for so long that the no keyboard/mouse thing does not bother me.
2) I have not tried to code with my tablet so I am not sure how this would be for pushing the wrong thing. What I have played with all the buttons seem large enough to be able to hit fine with my finger tip. If I were to have issues I would just use my stylus. Smaller than my finger. I would think that if you were keying something in no matter if you did it by keyboard or tablet you would want to double check it for accuracy so I do not see that as being an issue either.

 

[penclnck]

I really don't understand the hate for Windows. I must be missing something.

Because when you pay $2000 for a shiny computer so you can blog about what you had for breakfast at Starbucks, it is hard to admit you can do the same thing with a $500 Windows machine. Then after paying $1500 dollars more for something that is "better", complain cost a $499 tool that does 97.4% of what a $12,000 tool (Autologic anyone?) does.

 

[Rico567]

I really want to believe I can order the new Ross-Tech Wi-Fi version of VCDS in only 48 hours, that I'm not really back in 1995 listening to arguments among operating system fans. Really? In 2014? Really, guys?

 

[bhtooefr]

Here's the list of OSes I'm running right now:

The Mac I'm typing this on: OS X 10.8.5, Windows XP
An old ThinkPad next to me: Windows 98 SE
A Fujitsu tablet somewhere (I can see it on the network): Windows 7
The server 5 feet from me: FreeBSD 9.2, a VM running something Linux-based
The old RS/6000 on top of my server: AIX 4.3.3, VM/ESA V2R4 (on a S/390 card)
My router: DD-WRT v24-sp2 (so, Linux-based)
My phone: Android 4.4
My work phone: Windows Phone 8
My Raspberry Pi: RISC OS 5.21

And what's my opinion on them? Well, let's ask Three Dead Trolls In A Baggie: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPRvc2UMeMI

That is all.

 

[Santos_V]

Really? In 2014? Really, guys?

I wish i could find a window/mac version of this gif.

oh, and i'm posting this on a mac, i dont own any windows computers...

 

[Vince Waldon]

Well played... /thread.

 

[tadawson]

Now I see the problem. Heck, a lot has changed in 10 years.

But seriously, what Windows problems are you speaking of? My machines die of old age related to hardware LONG before any software problems. I've only ever had one Windows machine totally die, and that was (at the time) an 11 year old IBM Thinkpad running Windows 2000 that I had been using here at the shop and its battery finally would not hold a charge anymore.

The machine I am typing on now is cobbled together from leftover parts, running Windows 7, an early version at that, that has all the updates turned off... and it has never ONCE updated, since I installed it, never crashed, never done squat... and this machine is running 24/7, all the time, in a shop with no A/C and it gets below 50 here in the winter sometimes. Both the case fans are clogged full of grit and who knows what, the keyboard is filthy, the mouse is filthy, pretty sure I splashed DSG oil on it last week because now it is slippery... but it is still working fine, same as all the other Windows machines we have here.

If this machine caught fire, today, right now, right in front of me, I'd just cobble something else together for free from spare parts, load whichever version of Windows I could scrounge up for cheap, and move on. Who cares?

My gaming machines have all never had an issue either, and some of those endure 24+ hours straight of heavy duty heat intensive stuff, even had a few MoBo heat sensor alarms go off... but Windows (I have 2 XP SE machines, a 7 machine, and even a 2003 Server machine) has never once so much as peeped.

And I am certainly no operating system expert, but if I can make it work, I'd sure think most anyone can.

BTW, all our shop machines (all running Windows) have all been working perfect and the current crop is nearing 4 years old... never turned off either.

So where exactly is this "expensive instability" you speak of? I can't find it. And I am not trying to be confrontational, I really just don't see what Windows/Microsoft haters are seeing here.

Expensive: Windows comes at an initial price, price to upgrade, and $$$ if you call for support.

Instability: My job used to use Win (globally switched to Linux due to unacceptable security in Win). Those systems would not run more than 2 weeks or so without lockup or crash. Wife had a Win box that over 2 years corrupted itself badly - kept confusing users. (Yes, always had anti-virus). Granted, this was Vista, the one so bad that corporate America largely banned it.

Speed: a 3 year old system not on Windows will outrun a current Win box handily due to the bloat in Windows.

Security: Win only needs antivirus because it's security is *CRAP*! Other platforms are secure with zero additional speed robbing $$$ bloatware.

I walked away 10 years ago, *AND HAVE NEVER SEEN A REASON TO GO BACK* and I work with all of this stuff on a professional level daily.

Use what you like, I just take exception to all the lemmings who think Microsoft is the center of the world, and have never looked anything else. I've tried them all, and my choices are all based on the technology involved . . .

When I do need Win, I run XP - lean (for Win), pretty stable, and mature. Vista was a joke, 7 looks promising but majorly bloated, and 8 looks like yet another one that corporate America may ignore as another bad idea . .

- Tim

 

[tadawson]

iPads can be used with a Bluetooth keyboard, and most likely so can Android & Kindle tablets.

True, but kinda kills the point of a tablet. If I want that form factor, I'll lo laptop and have a complete OS and feature set. (Sent from my tablet on the couch . . . )

- Tim

 

[bhtooefr]

Expensive: Windows comes at an initial price, price to upgrade, and $$$ if you call for support.

Although, if you buy a computer with Windows on it, cost is a non-issue, and you can often get computers with licenses on them if you don't need the latest version. Upgrade cost is falling. Support, yes, I'll grant that, but who actually calls Microsoft for support?

Instability: My job used to use Win (globally switched to Linux due to unacceptable security in Win). Those systems would not run more than 2 weeks or so without lockup or crash. Wife had a Win box that over 2 years corrupted itself badly - kept confusing users. (Yes, always had anti-virus). Granted, this was Vista, the one so bad that corporate America largely banned it.

When was this? Because a lot of the problem with Vista wasn't the underlying OS, it was the hardware companies not having good drivers for it. Nowadays, even Vista works fine, although Win7 is basically a better tuned version of Vista.

Speed: a 3 year old system not on Windows will outrun a current Win box handily due to the bloat in Windows.

Maybe a consumer machine with the image provided by the manufacturer. A clean install, on the other hand...

Security: Win only needs antivirus because it's security is *CRAP*! Other platforms are secure with zero additional speed robbing $$$ bloatware.

Windows security is actually halfway decent lately, ever since the Vista era. It only needs antivirus because it's the biggest target for desktops. And, most Windows vulnerabilities are Java, Flash, and Adobe Reader vulnerabilities, and a Mac (or, except for Adobe Reader, a Linux machine) is just as vulnerable to those (but the payloads aren't written to target them). OS X specifically is actually fairly weak as far as security goes if someone wants to try.