BHW 5 speed conversion; a great experience!

[jonlowe]

NOW for Sale, see classifieds:BHW 5 speed conversion; a great experience!

Vwztips just converted my 2005 GLS wagon from auto to a 5 speed manual, with major conversion parts from Frans in the Netherlands. What a great change! Everything works, no codes, smooth shifts, very flexible on the highway due to all of the torque. If you are on the fence about doing this, just do it! Jeff (vwztips), did a great job, and Frans sent quality parts. Highly recommend these two members to others out there. To say I'm happy would be an understatement.

I also had Jeff install some new Koni FSD shocks and struts. While expensive, these work as advertised. I have 17" wheels, and you could feel every flaw in the pavement on the highway, feeling somewhat harsh, even though they were getting pretty worn. These greatly reduce that, while providing great control when pushed.

Jeff also did some general maintenance such as the latest revision to the glow plugs. Great work and a fair price.

All in all, a great experience.

Jon

 

[Windex]

Total costs?

 

[jonlowe]

Hard to break down into just the tranny mods, and I selected options others might do different. Frans would have sold a 5 speed conversion with a dual mass clutch for around $1600 shipped at dollar/euro exchange prices back in the May time period. However, I went with a new Sachs flywheel/pressure plate/clutch single mass system, so I didn't get the flywheel, but also got some other pieces on the same shipping pallet. Also bought some other miscellaneous pieces from Frans. I'd guess in the low to mid $3k range for parts and labor if you went a totally stock route. Jeff also sends the ecu out for reprogramming and that is included in his labor. If you haven't had the balance shaft mod or balance delete mod done, its best to do that at the same time. So things can vary a lot.

Jon

 

[DeliveryValve]

Did you have auto trans issues that prompted the manual conversion, or you did it as a personal choice?

 

[tikal]

I bought the five speed conversion kit from Frans minus the actual gearbox. Frans did a great job and followed up on some issues I was having with great professionalism.

 

[jonlowe]

Did you have auto trans issues that prompted the manual conversion, or you did it as a personal choice?

Personal preference. Never liked the way the auto shifted even in sport mode.
Jon

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4

 

[Uberhare]

Personal preference. Never liked the way the auto shifted even in sport mode.
Jon
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4

Ditto. I yanked mine out while it still worked and was worth something.

 

[RSMS]

I'm guessing a manual transmission is probably one of the best modification you could do. Someday I hope to getting around to trying one myself. Jealous for time being

 

[jonlowe]

My auto had about 110k on it, and it worked fine. Jeff still has it, as I didn't want it. If someone is desperate for a working auto, I don't care what happens to it. Jeff is probably going to take it to the scrap yard at some point. Contact him directly (vwztips).
Jon

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4

 

[jonlowe]

BTW, a six speed is about $1k more from Frans. Frankly, I don't see the need for another gear as the engine has so much torque. Final gear ratios are the same in any event. You need a bunch of other parts also, and according to Jeff, the 6 speed limits clutch choices.

Jon

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4

 

[HUVW]

Frankly, I don't see the need for another gear as the engine has so much torque.

It's funny you should feel that way as I find myself wishing I had a 7th gear while cruising the interstate.

 

[2004PassatTDI]

Does the 5/6 speed trans have more ultimate strength than the auto? How much HP and torques can the manual trans/clutch safely handle ?

 

[aja8888]

Does the 5/6 speed trans have more ultimate strength than the auto? How much HP and torques can the manual trans/clutch safely handle ?

If you notice these days, many high horsepower drag racing machines use automatics.

 

[newlitemotorist]

If you notice these days, many high horsepower drag racing machines use automatics.

Not "just" because of strength but almost exclusively for consistency and quicker times.

Now to answer the question, the 5 speed trannies are good to a safe 350 wtq whereas the 6 speeds are much stronger(400+ dont know exactly) but they have issues with syncros and diff bearings. choose your poison. The stock autos are pretty stout when they are healthy....but!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[jonlowe]

One of the reasons the 6 speeds cost more from Frans is that he rebuilds them with some sort of modification to fix the problems noted above. The 5 speeds he says are fairly bullet proof. I'm not doing any drag racing, and I know to let the synchros do their job, so I'm expecting a very long life.

One of the problems with the automatics, is that no one has a good rebuild except the factory, and they cost as much or more than the manual conversion. Plus, since it is a pre-DSG style transmission, it also has a torque convertor (another problem area), which reduces mileage. And, I've never liked they way they shifted, even in sport mode.

Jon

 

[DanMaker]

More gears doesn't mean higher top speed

It's funny you should feel that way as I find myself wishing I had a 7th gear while cruising the interstate.

If the gear ratio of fifth gear in a five speed is the same as sixth in a six speed, the top speed of the vehicle is still the same, you just have more gears to go through to get to it. If you could get the same 1 - 5 gears plus a taller sixth, then a six speed would give faster top speed.

There may be a rebuild gear set that can be done with. I haven't looked. On the other hand, maybe rebuilding your five speed with taller gears could give you what you are looking for. Bora Parts has replacement fourth and fifth gears:
http://shopping.boraparts.com/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=vw+gear+mod
maybe change 4th to their .917 and 5th to their .622 gearing.

 

[jonlowe]

Those gears aren't for the Passat. Different gearbox. I'm fine with the gears in the 5 speed.

Jon

 

[KITEWAGON]

I know that you've only had this a week, but I'm very interested in the mileage that you're seeing with this swap or what you are expecting.

I'm suddenly interested in getting a BHW Passat but the auto trans and the 35ish MPG is the main thing holding me back. I'd greatly prefer the manual and the mileage improvement would be how I could kinda sorta justify it.

 

[jonlowe]

I didn't see any change in highway driving, but I didn't expect to because the torque converter locks up anyway, and top dear is the same for both manual and auto gearboxes. I'm not expecting more than a couple mpg increase around town, and the computer seems to be indicating that, although I haven't used a complete tank around town. Jeff indicates that if you do the BSM delete rather than the geared BSM, you see better mileage. My car already had the geared BSM in it, so I didn't change. I also have the factory 17" wheels, so my rolling resistance is somewhat higher than the 15 and 16" tires.

The biggest thing is being in the gear you want when you want it. The gearing is amazingly flexible due to the torque of the motor. Jeff puts a stage 2 ecu upgrade/tune in it at the same time. I had a RC2 tune, and this feels similar, accounting for the difference in a manual and an auto. I also had the version 3 glowplugs and firmware done at the same time, so there are a number of things that can get done synergistically if you plan right.

This is one of those mods you just have to do because you want to, unless your auto dies. Not sure you would ever justify it by fuel savings.

Jon

If your auto is on it's way to self destruction, then this is a no brainer. This mod is cheaper than a factory auto rebuild installed, if you do it right.

It is weird not seeing the PRNDL indicator in the dash anymore. The display looks a little empty without it.

 

[Nash_TDI]

I have a great candidate for sale. You can get into in reasonable enough with a great working auto with a fresh fluid change. Slowly build up the parts needed for the conversion and convert it if it ever goes out or more than likely you just get bored and have all the parts.

 

[KITEWAGON]

I didn't see any change in highway driving, but I didn't expect to because the torque converter locks up anyway, and top dear is the same for both manual and auto gearboxes. I'm not expecting more than a couple mpg increase around town, and the computer seems to be indicating that, although I haven't used a complete tank around town.

That is too bad. I didn't realize that top gear was the same ratio. I was hoping this would bump it up from the 35-38 mpg range to 45 or so. Still seems worthwhile to me, but I couldn't make the change only for the gear rowing enjoyment.

 

[peiphil]

In all fairness would the clutch on a standard not wear out just about the same time a torque converter does?
Cant imagine a clutch,flywheel,bearing and presure plate for one of these being that cheap!
plus more labour and tools to do a clutch!

 

[jonlowe]

I bought a Valeo flywheel, pressure plate, clutch, and throwout bearing from Autoparts Warehouse for a little over $400. That is hundreds cheaper than a new torque convertor from VW, which is the only one that most people recommend. And the torque convertor is not the only thing that wears on the automatics.

I did it not for the mileage and not because my automatic had problems, but because the manual makes this a much more pleasurable car to drive. If this had been a DSG equipped car like the Sportwagens, I probably wouldn't have done it, as I probably would have added a paddle shifter steering wheel. But that wasn't what I had. My auto had been serviced by Oilhammer in the past, was in good shape, had been set permanently to the sport shifting settings, and at 110,000 miles probably would have lasted a while longer. But I didn't care for it.

Jon

 

[peiphil]

What does DSG stand for?

 

[Windex]

What does DSG stand for?

Doppelkupplungsgetriebe

Literally Double Clutch Gearbox

Anglicized to Direct Shift Gearbox

 

[tikal]

So far, after a few tanks, I have gained around 15% in mileage with approx. 60% to 65% city driving.

It is better in my view to give % gain rather than absolute MPG numbers.

 

[jonlowe]

Basically an automatically shifted manual transmission. No torque converter, so no converter losses/slippage.

There is a good intro to the DSG here:http://www.myturbodiesel.com/1000q/DSG-faq-VW-Audi.htm

Jon

Doppelkupplungsgetriebe

Literally Double Clutch Gearbox

Anglicized to Direct Shift Gearbox

 

[Warthog]

I just bought a 2005 Passat 5/spd conversion from vwztips. Very nice, well-kept leater interior and SOOOOO clean. A lot more doo-dads than in any of the other TDIs we have, I think I am driving some funeral-home limo.

NOW I'm looking for a service/repair manual. Not one listed in the Bentley wedsite, only have 2 vol manuals for gasoline engines.
Don't want a CD as I bought both CD and paper for the 2000 Jetta TDI and the paper books are more useful; not the same info, can you believe? Can't take the CD to someone else's house either, to work on their car!

 

[peiphil]

I just bought a 2005 Passat 5/spd conversion from vwztips. Very nice, well-kept leater interior and SOOOOO clean. A lot more doo-dads than in any of the other TDIs we have, I think I am driving some funeral-home limo.

NOW I'm looking for a service/repair manual. Not one listed in the Bentley wedsite, only have 2 vol manuals for gasoline engines.
Don't want a CD as I bought both CD and paper for the 2000 Jetta TDI and the paper books are more useful; not the same info, can you believe? Can't take the CD to someone else's house either, to work on their car!

This forum is better than any service manual.
Pretty much every trick these things have has been dealt with on here!

 

[jonlowe]

There is no paper manual for our cars that I am aware of. The best thing to do is get a small netbook computer, and put Bentley on there. I have the Bentley, and it will ONLY run on XP or earlier. I run it in a Virtual PC on a Windows 7 machine. Or you can get ELSA Win, the factory software, off of Ebay. In any event, to do anything serious with your Passat, you will need VCDS, and that requires a computer anyway.

If you want to know more, PM me.

Jon

I just bought a 2005 Passat 5/spd conversion from vwztips. Very nice, well-kept leater interior and SOOOOO clean. A lot more doo-dads than in any of the other TDIs we have, I think I am driving some funeral-home limo.

NOW I'm looking for a service/repair manual. Not one listed in the Bentley wedsite, only have 2 vol manuals for gasoline engines.
Don't want a CD as I bought both CD and paper for the 2000 Jetta TDI and the paper books are more useful; not the same info, can you believe? Can't take the CD to someone else's house either, to work on their car!