Fuel in Oil?

[WAKeele]

I tried doing a search, but didn't come across anything like I'm dealing with.

So while responding to a family health emergency over 2,000 miles from me in Montana, my timing belt strips on me in Kansas City--on a Friday night. The kick in the nuts is that I scheduled to have the timing belt done while I was in Tennessee since I couldn't get it done before I left.

Anyways, it jacked up everything it normally does when you're driving down the road at 70+ mph and the belt strips. New valves, camshaft and resurfaced the head at Northtowne VW just north of KC. They cleaned out my intake manifold too. So after my trip back to Montana (had to rent a car to get to TN since they had it for about a week and a half), I checked things out along the way. Two of the injectors were leaking very slightly. Cute. I tighten them up. Something is now rattling under the hood or undercarriage. Super. I'm starting to believe it's the serpentine belt tensioner. I check my oil and find it is well over full. Also, the oil seems A LOT thinner. Turns out they didn't change the oil too. My EGR is blowing oil (nothing new), but it is MUCH cleaner on the cover than before--almost as if it had the cleaning power of diesel in it.

I'm wondering if something from work is now causing fuel to get into the oil, or did fuel get in the oil from the breakdown or from the repair? Since they didn't change the oil, I'm wondering more now, but they did say they topped off the oil, so I would hope that meant they checked the level before doing so--among a lot of other things. It doesn't seem to be showing up higher on the dipstick, so maybe it is the mechanics doing. Unless anyone has any ideas, I'm going to change the oil (did it about 3,000 miles ago now) and see if it continues. I need to head back to TN sometime tomorrow (a bit more long-term this time), so hopefully some doesn't crop up. The tensioner has me a little concerned too.

This is off-topic, but I have a new limp mode fix kit from IDParts.com on the car and it went out for the first time since changing out the old parts in the Rockies on the way back. I got an overboost code again too. I didn't replace all the tubing, just what attached to the new hardware--since the kit didn't come with that much tubing. Any suggestions on this front?

THANKS!
--Adam

 

[ksmitty244]

Wow that is some really bad luck I feel for you! The only way you will be getting fuel in the oil is from an injector(s). Like a bad spray patner, or stuck open and just filling it up. Normally you have some driveablity issuse along with that. Do you have quiet abit of smoke? (Normaly with an injector stuck open its white, and will have a slight miss) what did they rack you for the repairs? Since you were in WV, coulda had it towed here and I would have done the work.

Oh yea, they SHOULD have changed your oil. That's bs

 

[Lightflyer1]

Why did you use the dealer though? KC has some top mechanics and Franko6 is close also IIRC.

 

[schwarze Käfer]

Wow, pulled the head and DIDN'T change the oil?!? You're kidding, right?

Uhm, change your oil and filter, NOW.

That should be part of a head R/R .

 

[schwarze Käfer]

BTW, they should've also checked your injectors. You easily could have damaged nozzle(s) that need replacing, and one or more could be way overfueling/leaking.

I'd get a guru to check your car, right NOW, before it's totally effed up!

If you have damaged injector nozzle(s), it could hydrolock and bend a rod!

 

[WAKeele]

Thanks guys!

The engine ran great on the return trip. No missing, plenty of power (when it doesn't go into limp), and normal fuel economy (actually, a little better).
Only a little smoke on start-up--gray.
Yeah, I would have liked to take it to an independent, but it was late Friday and I had little time and resources to research my options. We had been driving about 15 hours at that point and weren't firing on all cylinders ourselves. When I found out they were open on Saturday, I just went with it. I will certainly make sure to find a way to get on here to find shops/people if something like this happens again. My grandmother died right before this past Christmas while we were on the road to visit her (only about an hour away), so I didn't want to delay getting to my mother (her cancer became terminal about a month ago and I had just found out).
I found out about them not changing out the oil a few days later when I called about the concerns. That's just something basic I would never expect to have to make sure they did. They did talk about dropping the pan before they were able to do anything, so I would have expected new oil.
It ended up costing me about $3,300--and that's after a couple hundred discounted because it took them longer than they said it would (mostly due to "receiving the wrong cam shaft"). Now I did have them throw on all the suspension bushings and such from an IDParts refresh kit I had in the trunk with all my timing belt hardware I had--I'm glad I had all the hardware in the trunk! They also cleaned the intake manifold since they were there and it has been needing it. But still, some BS moves otherwise.
I'm about to change the oil and filter in a few minutes. If it doesn't yield the same results, do you think it's safe to say it's just due to the timing belt damage and any crap that got in there while they were working on it?
Thanks again guys!

 

[ksmitty244]

Why they did not change your oil blows my mind. I just hope they did a quality job on the rest. You shgould really pull your injectors out and have them pop tested by a fuel shop, or someone that has the equpment and know how. Good Luck, Kurt

 

[visionlogic]

They did talk about dropping the pan before they were able to do anything, so I would have expected new oil.

You and everyone else on the planet would have expected new oil. Did they drain the oil, drop the pan, reinstall the pan, and reuse the drained oil? Even in a minimally rational universe this does not add up.

 

[schwarze Käfer]

Bizzarro

You and everyone else on the planet would have expected new oil. Did they drain the oil, drop the pan, reinstall the pan, and reuse the drained oil? Even in a minimally rational universe this does not add up.

And they just got confused and topped it up with diesel, right?

 

[CopaMundial]

I'm going to change the oil (did it about 3,000 miles ago now) and see if it continues.

During your change it wouldn't be a bad idea to send a sample to a lab for Used Oil Analysis.

 

[WAKeele]

Update

Finally have some time for an update.

So I change the oil and filter. No surprise, I found metal in the filter. Mostly very small aluminum flakes--not very much. I saved the filter and oil because I could see this getting ugly. I sucked the oil out and would have liked to pull the drain plug and see what settled down there, but I don't have a jack and such where I live now.

Tightened up the lines to the injectors. Some were looser than others.

As much as I didn't want to drive it back to Tennessee, I didn't have much choice and had to risk it. At least I have some sort of "warranty" associated with the work and parts. (It's hard to keep a strait face as I type that) I kept a close eye on everything. Along the way I notice oily fluid pooling behind the vacuum pump. It looks as if it's black diesel--much like my oil did. My oil had remain remarkably clean for most of the 2,000+ mile trip. I made it. It could be getting fuel or Jetta tears, but I can't really say because there appears to be a decent amount leaking from around where the vacuum pump mounts onto the head. And guess what--the injectors line connections are still leaking (including the other two I checked and put a slight turn on them). So I guess tighten too much can cause leakage? I've dealt with high PSI lines before and hand tightening was never too much--well, within reason.

What else? Oh, so I gave it a look over again to prep myself to call Northtowne again. I also did quite a bit of reading on here about past timing belt experiences with dealers. I checked to make sure there weren't paint marks or anything. None. But there was quite a bit of dust built up on the cover. I would like to think they would have cleaned that off since they did have it for so long, but I'm more inclined to believe they didn't since they didn't change the oil. Looks like they put the complete kit on too. Also, the roller for the serpentine belt tensioner is appears to be loose--as in the bolt holding it on is backed out some. I couldn't hand turn it luckily, but there is some play with the roller. It was fine and dandy before the work.

Now I could be overly sensitive now, but there seems to be a slight delay in power when accelerate--about 1-2 seconds--before I get turbo like power. I have noticed some slight missing at times, but not always. At idle more it seems and after running for a while. Still has power, but maybe about 5-10% less on the lower end. Still less smoke than before the work.

Here's a question about an intake manifold cleaning. If you have the head off for, say, a timing belt debacle, should a manifold cleaning cost $250? I know this is cheaper than the three VW clownships I've had contact with thus far, but still. By the way, the first dealership I ever had work on a TDI was in a VERY strong TDI town, so I figured if anything, they had lots of practice. I would also like to say that the place in Nashville I had scheduled to replace the timing belt a few days later--German Performance Options--nailed the diagnosis by email of what I told the service manager at Northtowne. After reading a tread or two about timing belts gone wrong, I felt like a fool for not being able to diagnosis it myself. The timing belt tensioner was the culprit too, by the way. I've become way too hands off over the years with auto maintenance. Working on F-16s for the Air Force must have burned me out or something

So tomorrow I'm calling Northtowne and getting specifics on what they did do and how they did it. I'm also getting the details about their warranty--as in: are you going to pay for someone else actually near me to fix what you didn't finish or at least reimburse me the costs to do it myself? Not much time here for responses (thanks to being without internet too long), but any specific questions I should ask beyond EXACTLY how this job was done and was a VAG-COM used? Right tools, was the pan really dropped, are your guys really mechanics, how many TDI timing belt jobs do you do a year, and are you prepared to go down with the ship, are a few of the question I have in mind.

I hope that's everything and it makes sense. I am worn out by this and everything else. I just know if I did work like this in the Air Force, I'd be thrown in jail.

Thanks!

 

[ninedee_golf_tdi]

It's a dealer, you're from out of state and you're stranded. It isn't unreasonable to conclude that not only a dealership but also many local "shops" would have used that advantage to take you to the financial cleaners. Two and a half hours labor to clean the manifold is a bit much especially since it was off the engine anyway. The vw techs (chuckle) probably don't use vag-com, but a vw tool which has the same capabilities.

 

[WAKeele]

So. Since someone more "qualified to answer my questions" is going to call me back tomorrow, I wanted to add that I'm getting a second or two of lag in acceleration. I'm pretty sure this wasn't the case before, but I am much more sensitive to how my car is running the past month. I'm not driving it regularly by the way--you know, just 2,000 mile jaunts here and there. There does seem to be a bit more of a spooling up and down high pitch whine associated with power than before too. I'm hoping this is more vacuum pump/line related than turbo? I really hope this oil business didn't jack the turbo.
Oh, and the intake cleaning was $165--hot tanked. Isn't that still pushing reasonable with it being off anyways? Parts and labor for the engine work: $2,905.11 (minus $200 discount for not finishing on time and costing me more on hotel and rental car). The one thing they "didn't charge me for" was putting on a turbo vane actuator that I hadn't put on yet from a limp mode kit. What sweethearts. "Since we suck at what we do, this one's on us."
Anyone wanna buy a Jetta with a "new" timing belt job done with "new" engine components? Heated seats AND a sunroof!

 

[WAKeele]

So about 3,000 miles later and a new serp tensioner and the leaking injector lines dry (and new wheel bearings), I've noticed the an increasing miss in the end--particularly between about 1,000 and 1,200 RPM. Also if I goose the throttle a little (just slightly up to 1,000 RPM) it will--as I understand it--shutter. The oil level is higher than where it was when I changed it too.

Since I have to go back to TN again, I just might go through KC and have the stealership wizkids "fix" their handy work since it's under warrantee and technically would not cost any labor. It may also result in some money refunded because I will probably lose my mind on them. Either way, I have some issues that didn't exist before the timing belt striping.

 

[ginboomerang]

So about 3,000 miles later and a new serp tensioner and the leaking injector lines dry (and new wheel bearings), I've noticed the an increasing miss in the end--particularly between about 1,000 and 1,200 RPM. Also if I goose the throttle a little (just slightly up to 1,000 RPM) it will--as I understand it--shutter. The oil level is higher than where it was when I changed it too.

Okay, this was symptomatic of my PD 130's woes, along with more rattly/clanky engine noise particulary noticeable when crouched down by drivers side front wheel arch (remember I'm in Great Britain where we drive on the proper side of the road) and a difficult cold start and an impossible hot start.

The problem was the crankshaft pulley was almost hanging off giving all those nice metallic clanky sounds and timing so far off it made sense in Uranus. In short, a stealership over here had made a bodge of the cam belt change.

So I suspect your cambelt change was equally as bad.