Glx Tdi Syncro

[queek]

Tony, Mandrel bent 2.25 from Columbia River http://www.mandrel-bends.com/catalog/
I didn't do too much shopping around, but they have a good site, had everything I needed, their shipping was reasonable and they have excellent customer service...

I replaced the pic in the post above looking behind the engine down to show how far back the output shaft flange is from the steering rack and added one looking forward up the tunnel. As mogly says the small ID part of the shaft goes over the rack, but getting that three-eared flange over the rack and over the output stub shaft into the pilot bushing took some wrangling!

My ECU is a GQ! So you're saying simply do not reconnect the O2 sensors? This all came from a donor car with the GQ and sensors???
Peter

 

[TonyJetta]

Tony, Mandrel bent 2.25 from Columbia River http://www.mandrel-bends.com/catalog/
I didn't do too much shopping around, but they have a good site, had everything I needed, their shipping was reasonable and they have excellent customer service...

I haven't used them, but I like their pricing and parts selection.

I replaced the pic in the post above looking behind the engine down to show how far back the output shaft flange is from the steering rack and added one looking forward up the tunnel. As mogly says the small ID part of the shaft goes over the rack, but getting that three-eared flange over the rack and over the output stub shaft into the pilot bushing took some wrangling!

I realize it was probably the angle of the picture; I just had to ask.

My ECU is a GQ! So you're saying simply do not reconnect the O2 sensors? This all came from a donor car with the GQ and sensors???

I have a GQ ECU. From what I have read, the GQ ECU does not look for the sensors, nor the 5th injector (valve) that is 'T'd off the fuel filter, and feeds the exhaust, just below the elbow off the turbo outlet.

I dummied the sensors and 5th injector with resistors. I don't recall exact values off hand. If you search for '5th injector delete', and you should be able to find it easy enough.

Tony

 

[queek]

Tony, thanks for the lead on the 5th injector delete. I'll have to research this more a little later.

Before I get to that point I'm stuck on the connecting the TDI wiring harness: I didn't do a very good job labeling the wires when I pulled them out of the donor. (for what it's worth I have all the donor electrical including the cluster) It's obvious where the bulk of the harness connectors plug in, but there are about 8 wires that have me stumped.

These have connectors that clearly don't plug into the central electrics so I am assuming that they connect up to wires "loose" and outside of the fuse block. I've scoured the Bentley section dedicate to the TDI (X171 thru X179). I also looked in the "standard equipment" section and maybe I'm looking at it wrong, but I can't find these:

1 wire; brown/blue; gray male connector
1 wire; black/red; green connector
1 wire; black; green connector
2 wire; blk/rd - rd/blk; black connector
1 wire; green; yellow male connector
1 wire; grey/white; brown connector
1 wire; purple white; black male connector

Again these are bundled in the engine wiring harness. Anyone recognize or have their notes or a link to a thread where this info is captured?
Thanks, Peter

 

[queek]

So i figured out most of the wiring in my post above by tracing it back to device on the engine or to the pin number on the ECU connector which gave me a location on the wiring diagram.

I decided to connect the battery to see how much of the system comes alive. I kept the ECU and the main engine connector (round 24 pin) disconnected to be on the safe side.

The cluster back lighting works, but I don't have any LCD display. Are these dependent on the ECU being hooked up?

Thanks, Peter

 

[queek]

I know I’ve been focusing on the drivetrain for this project but that had to come 1st. The stuff was just taking up too much space. So now 2 years into this project and I’m finally getting down to the TDI nitty gritty. I’ve spent a lot of time studying the Bentley wiring diagrams and I think I finally have my arms around how this mess works. I'm the kind that needs to have everything on one piece of paper. I have the Chris Bells write-up on MFA conversion which has a lot of cluster information and David of Hasenwerk’s pinout out of the ECU, but I was missing how the cluster interfaced with the central electrics so when the going gets tough make a matrix!

I should be getting my modified cluster from dewhite2485 early next week. In addition to setting up the GLX cluster to work with the 4 cylinder TDI Derek added another LED to indicate when the rear diff freewheel lock out is energized.

I put this table together to use as a check list to make sure I have everything in place before I plug in the ECU or the cluster for fear of frying something. If anyone sees a mistake or would like a copy of the excel file chime in:
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Some other progress: the basics - new magnaflow diesel cat, the 180 had too great a radius so I cut up the stock down pipe...

Snaking it around the driveshaft

Transition up to 2.25 ...

the down pipe is tacked. I have a friend at work who is going to TIG it for me...

I figured out why I wasn't getting any display: the ground wire T28/5 going out to the cylinder head was not connected because the large round connector was not fully inserted. The rubber gasket had swollen preventing it from fitting inside the sleeve...I temporarily removed the gasket and pushed the connector in and voila:

Now this is the old GLX that I am using to debug. Does anyone know what turns on the MFA display in place of the clock? the ECU?
[/FONT]

 

[compu_85]

The MFA comes up when the cluster sees key on power. The control stalk is connected through the central electric block to the cluster through the cluster wiring harness.

-Jason

 

[TonyJetta]

Nice progress, Congratulations!

Tony

 

[queek]

Thanks Tony, Jason! In my quite neighborhood its grinding/welding by day and electronics by night. I need to focus on the wiring coming down from the steering column. There's no change when I turn the key to the on position. I hear the Load Reduction Relay pull in, things like the directionals work, the horn, the radio and the motor will crank if I turn the key to start, but no engine warning lights on the cluster and no MFA - tomorrow night's project...

 

[queek]

After several evenings of trying to debug I found it was just a fuse (#16)! I replaced the fuse and plugged in the modified cluster, plugged in the ECU, turned the key and everybody's talking to each other:

The green LED is the freewheel lock out to give all wheel drive in reverse. It will take +12V from the solenoid on the rear diff. Many thanks to dewhite2485 for modifying the cluster!

Derek lifted the diff lock symbol from a John Deere tractor. The welding on the downpipe ought to be done tomorrow or Friday so there may be diesel smoke over the weekend.

 

[queek]

Well here's the update I've been waiting to post. I spent the day chasing a no-start condition. I cleared the one N18 code (valve was unplugged). Seemed like no fuel so I cracked the fuel line nuts at the injectors and let it bleed for a count of 10. I also applied vacuum with a Mityvac to the supply line between the filter and the IP and then on the return line at the tank to make sure nothing was blocking fuel from flowing in both directions. I cleaned up the mess, tightened up the nuts and she fired right up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ha30XZAuXg

Here's a video from under the car. The downpipe is bouncing around because I've just got a couple nuts holding loosely in place. I wanted to see if the viscosity of the VW G70 gear oil was enough to spin the output shafts, but apparently it's pretty thin stuff. The shaft starts spinning by slipping it into 1st gear.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TY7Jauj-QYU

Now it's just busy work putting the car back together - kinda anti-climatic, until I get to test drive it...

 

[le_coiffeur]

nice project dude! good work! i'll follow your tread!, its similar to mine, but not AWD haha
see ya

 

[queek]

Thanks le coiffeur! And you're the one who could use the AWD. While you in PQ are wondering when the snow will end I'm just hoping we get some here this winter to play in.

Go check out VW Vortex - there are a couple of guys there who have converted Corrados to syncro.

I couldn't resist...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JW94Jhwi5A

 

[le_coiffeur]

Thanks le coiffeur! And you're the one who could use the AWD. While you in PQ are wondering when the snow will end I'm just hoping we get some here this winter to play in.

Go check out VW Vortex - there are a couple of guys there who have converted Corrados to syncro.

I couldn't resist...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JW94Jhwi5A

maybe in the future.. my rado TDI could be syncro.. but.. its not in my plans now! haha!! comme here, take a beer and play in the snow! haha

 

[le_coiffeur]

BTW. i got my tdi pedal cluster.. it's installed... i'll get my rado on the road this week!

 

[queek]

BTW. i got my tdi pedal cluster.. it's installed... i'll get my rado on the road this week!

That's good news! I'm glad you were able to get something locally.

 

[queek]

I need help with the 135 relay. Here's what I got: I have relay 135 from the donor car along the harness and mounting bracket. The other end of the harness has a few 1 and 2 pin connectors plus the 5 pin connector and a 6 pin connector. The Bentley doesn't show this relay at least not in the A/c section.
I have read this thread which explains how it functions, but it dosn't help me with what I need to know:

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=234763

The GLX also has one 5 and one 6 pin connector. The 5 pin has a harness with the same wires colors that but instead of connecting up with a relay, the harness gets buried deep in the heater box and I can't figure out what it does.

So, without getting into to much detail: is it possible or necessary to integrate the 135 into a GLX A/C control system? If so what is it I am replacing?

Thanks, Peter

 

[queek]

OK I think I understand the 135 relay and the wiring, although I can't really check it out without refrigerant and coolant in the system, but I have one other thing that I can't nail down:

The TDI doesn't seem to have an 'A/C Cut Out Thermal Switch' (F163) or a 'Third Speed Coolant Fan Control' (F165) like the GLX? Do I need these???

Although the Bentley shows these switches for the TDI (with a 3 speed fan) but then it also shows that the TDI has two 'ECT Sensors' (G2 & G62). I have the G2/G62 sensor in the coolant line near the head.

I may not have bought much by keeping the GLX radiator and fan control since I have no way (and maybe no need) to make use of the A/C cut out switch and the fan's 3rd speed. What's more the GLX fan motor is about twice as big in diameter as the TDI and it hits the intercooler ducting.

 

[TonyJetta]

The high temp cutout was only present on some TDI Passats. My Passat doesn't have one.

The three speed fan, IIRC, is only present on the VR6. TDI's have a 2 speed fan. However, if you have the three speed fan & controller, it may work fine.

The 2 speed TDI fan and controller is available from various suppliers. autohausaz.com has a good fan (PN 3A0959455B). I had to replace mine a few years ago. It is a swept blade design, so it's quieter than the OEM straight blade.

Tony

 

[queek]

I've left the GLX 3 speed fan control and wiring in place. I'm going to leave the 4 pin cut-out switch connector coiled up and tie-wrapped and so I don't know if I will get the full functionality out of the fan but the VR6 was probably more demanding on the cooling system than the TDI. If there are any major issues I can always switch over to the TDI fan/radiator and controller all of which I have from the donor car.

What's curious is that the larger TDI engine harness won't fit flush in the "wireway" below the battery along with the larger GLX fan wiring harness so maybe this is an omen.

It's been a couple of years since I ran this thing, but can you really notice the noise of the fan over the rattle of the diesel?

The problem that now rises to the surface is the turbo oil return line is leaking - I must have some porsity in the weld(s). This is just from the few 10 second runs to date. I'll have to get a guy at work to TIG it. I'd like to find some kind of a stainless steel accordian flex pipe (1/2") to replace the rigid tubing. I think not having a truly flexible connection between the two points is also causing one end not to seat.

 

[TonyJetta]

It's been a couple of years since I ran this thing, but can you really notice the noise of the fan over the rattle of the diesel?

You have to listen for it. Once I got the swept fan blade, I don't hear it. But, I can tell when the fan goes to high speed; the idle drops momentarily due to the instantaneous load from the fan.

The problem that now rises to the surface is the turbo oil return line is leaking - I must have some porsity in the weld(s). This is just from the few 10 second runs to date. I'll have to get a guy at work to TIG it. I'd like to find some kind of a stainless steel accordian flex pipe (1/2") to replace the rigid tubing. I think not having a truly flexible connection between the two points is also causing one end not to seat.

I thought I read about someone recently fabricating a stainless braided line and PN's for the adapters. I just don't recall who.

Tony

 

[queek]

Big milestone: After wrestling with the exhaust system (I would have been done months ago with a lift instead of jack stands!) I dropped the car back down on its wheels and drove it around the block yesterday!

What a hellacious racket! Between the exhaust pipe banging against the cross-member and a nasty tapping from the engine and without an interior yet it was pretty abusive. The engine noise freaked me out thinking I had slipped a tooth (lost a night of sleep thinking I was in for major surgery), but what I hope was no more than an air-bound injector. The engine ran smooth and quiet at idle so with it idling I cracked each of the injectors and then I found the air pipe between the turbo and the IC had popped off (I hadn't clamped it yet). With a cut-off wheel and a hammer I removed the part (unused hanger) that the exhaust pipe was hitting.

The unsolved: I drove around the block - 2nd time - with the laptop hooked up looking at the measuring blocks: the timing (beginning of injection) seems to retard as the engine speed increases??? It starts at idle at about 2.0 BTDC and by the time I was up to 2000 rpm it's at 0.9 ATDC ???

Shouldn't the timing advance as the engine speed increases - I'll check this out tomorrow but could the blow off air pipe have caused this???

Tony, I was able to stop the oil return line from leaking, but still no luck on motivating the fans to run.

I'll put up some videos tomorrow...

Peter

 

[deaster]

PM sent

 

[tongboy]

I thought I read about someone recently fabricating a stainless braided line and PN's for the adapters. I just don't recall who.

Tony

I took my return line down to the local specialty line shop in town and told them how long of a connection I wanted and had lunch and came back and they had made me one with the connectors from the turbo outlet and the block bolt in pieces of my stock piece and some braided AN line all soldered up for ~75 bucks. i'd definately recommend that route if it's still problematic. very common thing for turbo projects.

 

[queek]

Update Dec 5

Hey tongboy, I will definitely take your advice as soon as I can confirm where the oil is coming from - the leak is intermittent???. I just found a Fastenal about 20 minutes away...

Update:
I have the interior back together for the most part. Wow did that dampen the noise and it feels like a car again!
Still a few bugs:

• The passenger side CV boot is rubbing the motor mount. My Canadian syncro-guru pointed out that the syncro motor mount doesn’t have the 4th bolt that is so close to the CV bolts in the picture and therefore the needed clearance. I’ve thrown some axle grease on the boot so I can drive it around the neighborhood. If I can’t find an alternate I might try stretching the boot further up the shaft to pull the bellows inwards. Cramp quarters:

• The cruise control isn’t working even though it changes state in the measuring blocks in VAGCOM. Maybe I just haven’t gone fast enough yet, but the owners manual says it will work over 22mph – I think I need to re-check out the clutch and brake switch function.

• I have those vibrations blues – the engine runs as smooth as glass when over 1000rpm but as soon as I let go of the accelerator my teeth rattle! I think I might have left one or both of the rear VR6 motor mounts in place instead of changing over to the TDI’s.

• Going by what was in the Bentley wiring diagram I was optimistic that the engine oil temp display in the MFA would work, but no such luck. I chased the wire from the CE out to the engine and found I don’t have a sender, but I do have the wire plus a connector neatly tiewrapped to the plastic conduit…

and a plugged hole...

So a little digging and I found I needed a 1H0 919 563 which I got for $9 online. What amused me was listed on the box were the applications including a Ford Galaxy 1.9 TDI (????)

Installed…

And working…

Now what really blows my mind is that the MFA fuel consumption calculator works with the TDI! I know the ECU knows the instantaneous fuel consumption, but can someone explain what signal does the ECU send thru what wire to the cluster that the MFA then uses as an input?

31 MPG driving around the block – I think I’m off to a good start.

Replaced the rear ABS sensors – I found on ebay – offered the guy $25 and he accepted. They’re probably Chinese, but so far the ABS controller is seeing them. I just need some snow to see if the EDL adds any noticable traction to the all wheel drive…

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150515467504&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT


I just need to replace the front calipers/rotors (snapped bleeder screw), get the front end aligned and I’m going to start commuting!

Here's a not-so-convincing demonstration of the all wheel drive capability. The only hill in the neighborhood is in my backyard. I don't have much of a baseline - I never tried doing something like this when it was FWD but the grass was slippery...
http://s151.photobucket.com/albums/s152/ptrmzr/?action=view&current=f9847230.mp4

 

[TonyJetta]

Nice work!

Glad to see so much progress.

Tony

 

[Jet 02]

TDI fuel consumption signal again.

Pin 9 the variable pulse-width fuel consumption signal tells the gauge cluster the amount of fuel used. I guess the cluster must compare that with distance driven to calculate mpg.

 

[queek]

Thanks Tony! This has been no small project by any stretch!
Jet 02 - that would explain the purple/white wire going to T28/26 does!

Did any B4 TDI's come with a fuel consumption calculator (MFA)? If so then I presume that VW made one wiring harness to support all options. If not what would a TDI cluster use that information for???

 

[TonyJetta]

Did any B4 TDI's come with a fuel consumption calculator (MFA)? If so then I presume that VW made one wiring harness to support all options. If not what would a TDI cluster use that information for???

I don't know about ANY B4 TDI's coming with the MFA. Probably in Europe.
From a configuration control perspective the wiring harnesses ARE largely universal. That's why you see the oil temp sensor lead in all the B4's, but no heated seat wiring because it's a sub-harness.

Tony

 

[Windex]

Having just done the MFA conversion into my B4V, the harness from the Fuse block to the cluster is the same (has the wires from the cluster to the ECU), but the short harness from the MFA switch on the wiper stalk is not there, you have to add it or make one.

The other harness missing in a B4 TDI is from the Fuse block to the outside air temperature sensor adjacent to the to tow hook in the front bumper valence.

Once you add these two harnesses, and the switch and the sensor, (and the oil temp sensor), the MFA works swimmingly.

 

[Or Turbo Diesel]

My B4V conversion has been on the road for about 2 years now. In Oregon we don't pump our own fuel (diesel is exempt, though most still don't pump their own). I added "Diesel only" stickers where it used to say unleaded.

If you need turbo advise or rebuild, try Dons Turbo's in Oregon. He has been very helpful.

I used a VR6 radiator (more common, less $, IIRC it was a hair bigger). I then used the VR fan and adapted the TDI fans over. The VR parts were in much better shape. I didn't want to try to adapt the VR fans into the TDI mix. I kept them in case of need in the future.

If you have Injection pump woes, Diesel Injection Service can rebuild it. They have a great repution, I know of a local TDI shop who sends all their pumps/injectors there. If on a budget, you can swap in a newer and more plentiful (A4) pump. You will need to get the drive hub with the new pump, remove the hub only using the 3 bolts and turn the front flat on a lathe. The new hub won't clear your timing belt cover otherwise. Also the wiring harness is different- you can get the correct connector from the dealer for less than $20. IIRC there is a pump how to here somewhere.

I set my wagon up to be OBD compliant, no codes, etc. Donor was 1997, recipient was 1995. No computer was plugged into mine, no codes looked at, not even a cursory look for a Cat! Tailpipe emissions only because of age. It took several more attempts to get my title to read Diesel however. I wanted full notice of power plant change for insurance purpose. If someone plows into it and you aren't compensated for a rare vehicle you may get dimes on the dollar for all your hard work.

I enjoyed reading your buildup. It made me think about the possibility of adding AWD. I had a 1987 5000 Turbo Quatro wagon. it was heavy but it hooked up nice.

Thanks for the great info!