REALLY Cold Weather

listerone

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2009
Location
Connecticut
TDI
2018 BMW 540d
Thinking seriously of taking my "d" to a town in northern Quebec next January.According to the town's website the typical low temp is -10F and -50F isn't unheard of.Any ideas/suggestions as to what I should do to prepare my "d" for the ordeal....coolant...fuel...fuel additives...tires...oil...battery....etc,etc.I've never had any experience with such weather in *any* vehicle including a diesel.

TIA.
 

NB_TDi

Vendor
Joined
Mar 16, 2008
Location
NB, Canada █♣█
TDI
2014 Jetta SE
Power service; white bottle. Good CORRECT battery. Zerostart Coolant Heater. Correct oil. Spare fuel filter.

Bout it. We hit -35c here and I never have any issues.
 

jettawreck

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2004
Location
Northern Minnesota-55744
TDI
2001 Jetta and 2003 Jetta
Thinking seriously of taking my "d" to a town in northern Quebec next January.According to the town's website the typical low temp is -10F and -50F isn't unheard of.Any ideas/suggestions as to what I should do to prepare my "d" for the ordeal....coolant...fuel...fuel additives...tires...oil...battery....etc,etc.I've never had any experience with such weather in *any* vehicle including a diesel.

TIA.
As mentioned, Power Service (white bottle) in advance of leaving home. Best to do it a few tanks prior to going. Water in the fuel is your worst enemy. Get it gone. Buy fuel locally at your destination, it should be "blended"/additives added for the temps there.
Battery OEM size/type in top condition. Coolant heater good idea if its gets colder than -10F. When its real cold I carry some PS 911 for emergency (never used it yet) in addition to the white bottle which gets added every fill-up
Correct spec oil is fine. I've never used anything other than 5W-40.
-10F is no big deal, very common here, but there is quite a difference when it goes below -30F. Everything gets a lot stiffer feeling, and takes a lot longer to "warm" up.
TDIs run good in the cold, but cabin heat can be slow to get. Heated seats are like gold up here.;)
 
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MayorDJQ

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 4, 2001
Location
Williamstown, Mass
TDI
'10 Golf 2dr 6m, sold.
+1

Somehow Canadian Diesel driver's deal with cold weather.

I've started my Diesels--'01 Golf, '02 Jetta, '09 Jetta, '80 300SD--in -10*F without a problem.
 

nate379

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2010
Location
Palmer, AK
TDI
05 Jetta
Have not run my car in a winter yet, but my 2 trucks are diesel and do just fine. I don't plug them in or anything.
 

listerone

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2009
Location
Connecticut
TDI
2018 BMW 540d
Power service; white bottle. Good CORRECT battery. Zerostart Coolant Heater. Correct oil. Spare fuel filter.Bout it. We hit -35c here and I never have any issues.
Hey,thanks for your reply.I've heard of Power Service but I've never used it (last winter was my first one with a diesel).My "d" calls for 5w-30 oil and,IIRC,nothing else.You think that might be good enough? And what's with the spare fuel filter?

I'm not certain but I assume that I won't have access to a garage or a power source for overnight heating.Is it right to assume that you guys up north *have to* use overnight heaters?

Again,thanks!
 

listerone

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2009
Location
Connecticut
TDI
2018 BMW 540d
Have not run my car in a winter yet, but my 2 trucks are diesel and do just fine. I don't plug them in or anything.
What kind of winters do you have in Palmer? Are they *kinda* cold like Juneau or *really* cold like Fairbanks?
 

jettawreck

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2004
Location
Northern Minnesota-55744
TDI
2001 Jetta and 2003 Jetta
Hey,thanks for your reply.I've heard of Power Service but I've never used it (last winter was my first one with a diesel).My "d" calls for 5w-30 oil and,IIRC,nothing else.You think that might be good enough? And what's with the spare fuel filter?

I'm not certain but I assume that I won't have access to a garage or a power source for overnight heating.Is it right to assume that you guys up north *have to* use overnight heaters?

Again,thanks!
Your profile and/or signature line doesn't say which TDI you have, but for my recall most all have a first choice of 5W-40. Check your owners manual and fill in your profile/sig.
EDIT: sorry didn't realize you were referring to the BMW. I'm guilty of assuming.

Spare fuel filter for if the present one "gells" or water in fuel freezes. Change filters or there you sit.

-10F overnight it will probably start. -30F sitting out overnight, probably not.
 

listerone

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2009
Location
Connecticut
TDI
2018 BMW 540d
-10F is no big deal, very common here, but there is quite a difference when it goes below -30F. Everything gets a lot stiffer feeling, and takes a lot longer to "warm" up.
TDIs run good in the cold, but cabin heat can be slow to get. Heated seats are like gold up here.;)
Sounds like you guys see -30 at least occasionally.Do properly prepared diesels ever fail to start at that temp? That's what I'm worried about.Waiting for the heater is something I can deal with.The coldest my "d" has ever seen is -2 (two different nights) and it started like a champ both mornings.But as you've suggested -30 (and -50) is a lot different than -10.
 

listerone

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2009
Location
Connecticut
TDI
2018 BMW 540d
-10F overnight it will probably start. -30F sitting out overnight, probably not.
You answered my main question as I was typing.Yikes...no start at -30! Looks like I'll have to make sure I have enclosed parking.

And yes,mine is a Bimmer but for general info about diesels I've found that TDIClub is a very good source of info.Far more owners than BMW/Mercedes don't you know.:)
 

jettawreck

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2004
Location
Northern Minnesota-55744
TDI
2001 Jetta and 2003 Jetta
You answered my main question as I was typing.Yikes...no start at -30! Looks like I'll have to make sure I have enclosed parking.

And yes,mine is a Bimmer but for general info about diesels I've found that TDIClub is a very good source of info.Far more owners than BMW/Mercedes don't you know.:)
Cann't speak for the Bimmer, but I don't hink I would even bother to try to start the VW if it sat out overnight at -30F. It normally resides in the garage at home. Its not heated, but it is insulated and usually stays above 0F, even in real cold.
The Suburban would start, and the Ski-Doos and Polaris, of course!;)
 

NB_TDi

Vendor
Joined
Mar 16, 2008
Location
NB, Canada █♣█
TDI
2014 Jetta SE
TDI will start at -30F, that's about -34C. They work fine. Have a good battery and you'll be fine.

Also if you're really concerned. Have your starter cleaned and re-greased. They can spin slow at colder temps.
 

fase2000TDI

Vendor
Joined
Aug 30, 2005
Location
Chesapeake, VA, USA 401-919-0466
TDI
2003 Jettawagon TDI; 2015 GSW 6MT
I heard BMW's have a hard time starting in the cold..... but VW diesels start up no problem at all. I suggest you trade with me for that week ;)

(in all seriousness, your BMW will be fine - just ad power service / anti-gel and you'll be fine. Replace the fuel filter before the trip)
 

nate379

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2010
Location
Palmer, AK
TDI
05 Jetta
They are mild compared to Fairbanks. Those guys are wearing T Shirts and shorts at temps that we think are BRRRRR! :D

Typical temps in the middle of winter will be in the low single digits. -30* is about the coldest "normal" temp that I have seen.


What kind of winters do you have in Palmer? Are they *kinda* cold like Juneau or *really* cold like Fairbanks?
I have owned diesels for several years. GM 6.2L, Cummins, and now the TDI as well. Only time I had a filter gel up was a small "primary" filter on the aux tank in the bed of one of my trucks. It gravity feeds to the main tank and there was not enough pressure to flow through it at -45*. Was not fun changing it on the side of the road either!
 
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Steve-o

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 13, 1999
Location
Saint Paul, Minnesota, USA
TDI
2003 Jetta Wagon
When starting in that kind of cold, technique makes a difference, too -- at least for our VW TDIs:

  • Give the battery a little less to do by making sure heater fans, window defrosters, heated seats, radios, etc. are OFF before you turn the key. It also can help to pull up the parking brake just enough to switch off the DRLs.
  • Once the car is started and settled, though, turn on as much electrical as you can (but don't call for heat); the added load helps the car "warm up" faster.
  • Sometimes it makes sense to "double-glow": turn the key in the ignition, wait until the glow-plug indicator light goes out, move the key back to the off/remove position, and then turn the key again and wait until the GPI goes out. Warms things up a LITTLE for starting.
I've started my TDI through 12 Minnesota winters and it has always started. Sounded like a coffee can full of rocks for a few seconds, but it started and stayed on. It's never plugged in. And, at -30 to -40 (C or F; at this temp it makes little difference), many gassers won't start. Jeez, at those temperatures, I have a hard time getting started.... :eek:
 

jettawreck

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2004
Location
Northern Minnesota-55744
TDI
2001 Jetta and 2003 Jetta
When starting in that kind of cold, technique makes a difference, too -- at least for our VW TDIs:

  • Give the battery a little less to do by making sure heater fans, window defrosters, heated seats, radios, etc. are OFF before you turn the key. It also can help to pull up the parking brake just enough to switch off the DRLs.
  • Once the car is started and settled, though, turn on as much electrical as you can (but don't call for heat); the added load helps the car "warm up" faster.
  • Sometimes it makes sense to "double-glow": turn the key in the ignition, wait until the glow-plug indicator light goes out, move the key back to the off/remove position, and then turn the key again and wait until the GPI goes out. Warms things up a LITTLE for starting.
I've started my TDI through 12 Minnesota winters and it has always started. Sounded like a coffee can full of rocks for a few seconds, but it started and stayed on. It's never plugged in. And, at -30 to -40 (C or F; at this temp it makes little difference), many gassers won't start. Jeez, at those temperatures, I have a hard time getting started.... :eek:

This is great advice, and something I've always done when its really cold.

"Give the battery a little less to do by making sure heater fans, window defrosters, heated seats, radios, etc. are OFF before you turn the key. It also can help to pull up the parking brake just enough to switch off the DRLs."
While most of these things are shut off with the ignition during cranking, its during the time the GP are on prior to cranking that everything you can
turn off should be to save power. The older cars preheat for quite a while when the temps are like being discussed-especially if you have glow time extended (adapted w/VCDS) like mine. When its nasty cold out it all makes a difference.
 
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T_D_I_POWER

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jun 7, 2007
Location
Savannah. GA. USA - Toronto. ON. CANADA
TDI
'04 VW PASSAT GLS TDI '06 Audi A4 q Avant 6-Spd Sport Pkg
Diesel engine worst enemy is cold temp. So, it would be wise to install a zerostart coolant heater and have your car plug in overnight using an outdoor wall timer for at leat 2 hrs.
 

nate379

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2010
Location
Palmer, AK
TDI
05 Jetta
Costs money to plug it in and not to mention, do you plug it in at work or at the stores, etc?

Up north they do have plugs in many spots, just doesn't get cold enough here for that. (they see temps of -60)
 

T_D_I_POWER

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jun 7, 2007
Location
Savannah. GA. USA - Toronto. ON. CANADA
TDI
'04 VW PASSAT GLS TDI '06 Audi A4 q Avant 6-Spd Sport Pkg
GA Power Off-peak hour rate is 3.9864 cents/kWh

So, a 1000-Watt coolant heater plug in for a min. 2-hrs/day

:. 1000 W = .1 kW
.: .1 kW X 3.9864 cents/kWh X 2hrs = 0.797 ~ 0.80 cents/day.

Less than a price for a small cup of coffee or .5L purified water bottle

5-work days = $ 3.9864
6 days = $ 4.78
7 days = $5.58
1 month = $22.32

Having the cylinder head nice and warm and therefore no typ. Diesel loud banging pop-corn rattling winter cold starting is a peace of mind.

Another pluses, is that as the coolant heater is heated so does the oil in the OHE -a must-, quicker heating for the interior, windows, and windshield defrosting. It`s a win-win for winter.









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nate379

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2010
Location
Palmer, AK
TDI
05 Jetta
Wow that is super cheap electric! It's 0.19 kWh here.

Your math is wrong also. It it's 4 cents it would be $0.08 for 2 hours. Around $1.60 for a month
 
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jettawreck

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2004
Location
Northern Minnesota-55744
TDI
2001 Jetta and 2003 Jetta
Wow that is super cheap electric! It's 0.19 kWh here.

Your math is wrong also. It it's 4 cents it would be $0.08 for 2 hours. Around $1.60 for a month
Also 1000 watts is 1 KW, not .1 KW.
Rate here is $.09/KW (Off peak etc only for major heating/cooling appliances) so 2 hrs is $.18-still very cheap for the comfort and damage control. My car goes in the unheated but insulated garage, but whe its really cold I put it on a timer for a couple hours and it starts like summertime. No plug in option at work, street parking. Sometimes I have to start it at mid-day.
 

fnj2

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 1, 1999
Location
Wellfleet, Massachusetts, USA
GA Power Off-peak hour rate is 3.9864 cents/kWh
So, a 1000-Watt coolant heater plug in for a min. 2-hrs/day
:. 1000 W = .1 kW
.: .1 kW X 3.9864 cents/kWh X 2hrs = 0.797 ~ 0.80 cents/day.
Big error there: 1000 w is 1 kw, not 0.1 kw (Nate - the error is not as you describe - he said 7.9728 cents; you say $0.08; that's exactly the same thing). (oops - jettawreck - you caught this moments before I did)

So 3.9864 cents/kwh x 1 kw x 2 hr = 7.9728 cents, not 0.797 cents.

And few places up north have electricity that cheap. Here on Cape Cod, Massachusetts, it's about 20 cents/kwh, so make that 40 cents a day, not 7.9728 cents

Might be cheaper in the area served by Hydro Quebec; don't know.

Other error - you're off by 100 in your calcs for multiple days - in the opposite direction.

Bottom line - even 40 cents a day is only $8 a month at 20 work days per month - pretty negligible.
 

nate379

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2010
Location
Palmer, AK
TDI
05 Jetta
Right, 1000 watts in an hr is 1 KwH. My math is correct I think... it's 6AM here and I have been up since 4AM on Sunday so I'm not running on all 8 right now haha.

0.04 per KwH = 0.08 for 2 hrs a day. x5 (days a week) x4 (weeks a month) = $1.60


Reason it didn't look right is I had figured it out this winter and it was going to raise my bill roughly $10. I knew at a sixth of the electric cost I pay, there was no way it would be 2x the cost!

Big error there: 1000 w is 1 kw, not 0.1 kw (Nate - the error is not as you describe - he said 7.9728 cents; you say $0.08; that's exactly the same thing). (oops - jettawreck - you caught this moments before I did)

So 3.9864 cents/kwh x 1 kw x 2 hr = 7.9728 cents, not 0.797 cents.

And few places up north have electricity that cheap. Here on Cape Cod, Massachusetts, it's about 20 cents/kwh, so make that 40 cents a day, not 7.9728 cents

Might be cheaper in the area served by Hydro Quebec; don't know.

Other error - you're off by 100 in your calcs for multiple days - in the opposite direction.

Bottom line - even 40 cents a day is only $8 a month at 20 work days per month - pretty negligible.
 
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fnj2

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 1, 1999
Location
Wellfleet, Massachusetts, USA
Nate, your math is 100% fine as far as I can see (which may not be all that far; I am suffering some of the same conditions as you, as well as dew point over 70* F almost every day for over 3 weeks, not the slightest breath of breeze practically the whole time, and now I find out my electric rates are about the highest on the North American continent). :eek:
 
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