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Old December 17th, 2004, 15:00   #1
TDIMeister
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Default Mercedes-Benz launches new V6 diesel engine

Link.

17th December 2004

A new Euro 4-compliant 224 bhp V6 diesel will replace Mercedesí in-line five- and six-cylinder engines from spring 2005. It will boast a maximum torque of 510 Newton metres available from 1,600 rpm. Mercedes-Benz will offer the V6 engine with a particulate filter as an option in the UK.

At 208 kg the new engine is very slightly heavier than the previous five-cylinder engine, but its power-to-weight ratio has increased by more than 20 per cent to 1.08 hp/kg. Newly developed piezo injectors operate much more rapidly and precisely than the previous enginesí solenoid valves, making five injections per power stroke possible, at a peak pressure of up to 1600 bar.

- DaimlerChrysler's Chrysler Group expects to save $100 million a year by building four-cylinder engines in its Global Engine Alliance with Mitsubishi Motors and Hyundai at two plants in Michigan, Chrysler announced on 16 December. The "world engine" project, which will yield 2 million engines a year from five plants in South Korea, Japan and the USA.
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Old December 17th, 2004, 15:36   #2
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Default Re: Mercedes-Benz launches new V6 diesel engine

For us metrically deprived, I'll try to decipher... 224bhp, 376ft-lb, and 23,200psi injector pressure. Sounds very nice, wonder how the fuel economy compares?
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Old December 17th, 2004, 18:03   #3
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Default Re: Mercedes-Benz launches new V6 diesel engine

Sounds like better specs than the 320 CDI (201 hp, 369 ft-lbs of torque). I still like the inline six better. One fewer head gasket to blow and smooth without balance shafts too.
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Old December 18th, 2004, 18:33   #4
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Default Re: Mercedes-Benz launches new V6 diesel engine

wondering why they are dropping the inline for a V design, I always thought the inlines were smoother and produced more torque then the Vs.
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Old December 19th, 2004, 07:47   #5
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Default Re: Mercedes-Benz launches new V6 diesel engine

This term "safety" is blown all out of proportion in engineering reasoning.
The number one thing must be balance. The torque from a V engine or an I must be the same. With two heads, and more exhaust complexity, the I engine is less expensive to build. But the V has an advantage with a shorter crankshaft.
But only the bean-counters and designers know the exact values of each item.
I, for one ,would prefer that the car be just 6 inches longer and have the I engine.Consider the Volvo 740 or a Mercedes 300 or a Ford pickup with an Inline 6 - these all cost less to build and less to maintain, and the longer nose is ,IMO, psychologically nicer to drive.

And then there is the Volkswagen 15 degree VR engine, with but one head . But I think their new Inline 5 is better - but only the engineers really know..
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Old December 19th, 2004, 07:57   #6
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Default Re: Mercedes-Benz launches new V6 diesel engine

I believe Mercedes has some good experience with V6's, now that their V6 gasoline 3.2 liter problems are behind them (I hope). I believe its for fuel efficiency due to lighter engine and body. The cost savings of using such an engine in their smaller cars also comes into play.

I wish they could produce the inline 6 diesel along with the V6, though. Having only one common rail vs. two comes to mind as another advantage. Maybe the inline 5 will also work, but its not inherently balanced like the inline 6. Somehow BMW has managed to keep an inline 6 (they have more problems than Mercedes with head gaskets, so a BMW V6 may have even more problems).
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Old December 19th, 2004, 15:51   #7
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Default Re: Mercedes-Benz launches new V6 diesel engine

I've heard it said many times that the an inline 5 is inherently less balanced than a 4 or a 6 but I have to ask if it's in fact true? As side from 5 being a prime number is there any mathematical reason for a 5 pistons 72 deg apart to be significantly less balanced than 6 separated by 60 deg? Both of my Audi 5 cylinder engines, one 10V and one 20V, were very sweet smooth power plants.
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Old December 19th, 2004, 16:40   #8
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Default Re: Mercedes-Benz launches new V6 diesel engine

A balanced engine will have the same weight of moving parts going in opposite directions causing no large vibration on the motor mounts. The firing order and rotating weight of the pistons and crankshaft are not inherently even/balanced in a five like a six is. Engines larger than a certain displacement need a balance shaft, whether inline 3, 4, or 5 cylinders but not inline 6's or V8's. The horizontally opposed 4's and 6's are balanced while V6's are also somewhat more balanced. I'm sure your five is smooth because of special counterbalancing techniques and specially set firing rhythm. I think there must be some basic automotive reference that speaks to this.
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Old December 19th, 2004, 17:20   #9
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Default Re: Mercedes-Benz launches new V6 diesel engine

Inline-5s are balanced for primary and seconday forces but have a rocking couple vertically along the crankshaft axis. Only on the latter factor is the inline-5 different from an inline-6, and it is still more balanced than a 90-degree V6 without balance shafts or inline-4.

There's nothing special in the counterbalancing of an inline-5 other than a 5-plane crank spaced 72-degrees apart for even-firing (an inline- and flat-6 have 3-plane cranks spaced 120-degrees apart, while 90-degree V6s and the VW VR6 engine have joined crankpins offset @ 30- and 15-degrees respectively to maintain an even firing-order.
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Old December 19th, 2004, 21:41   #10
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Default Re: Mercedes-Benz launches new V6 diesel engine

whatever works best for them, its also more of a pain to connect a turbo to 2 banks of 3 cylinders the one of 6.

hmm this seems to make no sense ATM, but only time will tell.

Whatever works best!
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Old December 20th, 2004, 04:32   #11
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Default Re: Mercedes-Benz launches new V6 diesel engine

This was probably done for packaging concerns, since the article states this will replace both the 5 and 6 cylinder inline engines. I bet this would fit nicely in the Dakota!
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Old December 20th, 2004, 12:25   #12
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Default Re: Mercedes-Benz launches new V6 diesel engine

Ok, now let's go into the balancing of the old 12 cylinder rotary aircraft engines...
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Old December 20th, 2004, 12:54   #13
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Default Re: Mercedes-Benz launches new V6 diesel engine

I always thought inlines were lighter than V's? When Honda Motorcycles developed their V4 engines they produced gobs of good HP & torque but the inline Suzuki's weighed so much less that Honda couldn't win any races. That was then though. Now they race V2's all the time and win...
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Old December 20th, 2004, 13:32   #14
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Default Re: Mercedes-Benz launches new V6 diesel engine

Inline engines are lighter insofar as only one cylinder is needed and one bank of camshafts, one set of cam sprockets, etc.

One head serving all 6-cylinders rather than 2 heads serving 3-each will have a negligible contribution to the weight difference, but most of the added weight of a V-type engine will found in the above, as well as extra material in the valley between the cylinder banks on the block.

Edit: The Mercedes V6 Diesel engine is lighter than the inline-6 only probably because of new technology like stronger materials that allow thinner walls to be used to retain the same strength.
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Old December 20th, 2004, 14:58   #15
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Default Re: Mercedes-Benz launches new V6 diesel engine

Quote:
When Honda Motorcycles developed their V4 engines they produced gobs of good HP & torque but the inline Suzuki's weighed so much less that Honda couldn't win any races. That was then though. Now they race V2's all the time and win...
I'm not aware of any currently successful Honda V2 designs in major motorcycle racing. In the MotoGP, Rossi won the previous year with Honda's V5. Since Rossi switched to Yamaha, he took Honda's winning ways with him on Yamaha's 1000cc, which I think is an inline 4. And in the AMA, inline 4's have been winning for years. And WSB doesn't count in my mind, as the Ducati V-twins are about the only major bike manufacturer in the series.
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