www.tdiclub.com

Economy - Longevity - Performance
The #1 Source of TDI Information on the Web!
Forums Articles Links Meets
Orders TDI Club Cards TDIFest 2014 Gone, but not forgotten VAG-Com List Unit Conversions TDIClub Chat Thank You



Go Back   TDIClub Forums > VW TDI Discussion Areas > Fuels & Lubricants

Fuels & Lubricants Discussion all about Fuels & Lubricants. synthetic oil, conventional oil, brands, change intervals, diesel grades, gelling and such debated items like that. Non TDI related postings will be moved or removed. This forum is NOT for the discussion of biodiesel and other alternative fuels.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old November 5th, 2004, 20:30   #1
Kharon
Newbie
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Default Oil specifications VW505.01 vs. VW506.01

It's time for a oil change and I have a question about VW oil specifications.

My car 2001 VW Passat Variant 1.9 TDI PD (74 kW, unit injectors) has serviced with fixed intervals (15000 kms/10000 miles). The oil that should be used is VW 505.01 according to the service manual. Well, I would like to use for example Mobil SHC LD 0W-30, which meets/exceeds the VW506.01 but apparently not the VW505.01 spec. The 0W-30 viscocity seems to be better in the Finnish winter conditions. I also think that the mentioned Mobil product is probably better than the VW505.01 oils. VW505.01 oils are quite often 5W-40 and I think 0W-30 is better for the winter use.

Can I use VW506.01 instead of VW505.01? Any harm for the engine? Can I longer the oil change intervals? How VW505.01 and VW 506.01 differs?

Thanks! Great Forum!
Kharon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 5th, 2004, 22:00   #2
Drivbiwire
Zehntes Jahr der Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 1998
Location: Boise, Idaho
Default Oil specifications VW505.01 vs. VW506.01

You need to pay attention to the last number not the first.

Generally speaking if you are having severe winters then look for a 0w40, Reason is once the engine reaches operating temp the 0w30 will not protect the engine as well as the 0w40. 0w40 flows as well as a 0w30 in the arctic conditions however once your engine reaches operating temp the 0w30 cannot protect as well due to lower visocity of the oils high temp range.

The last number only relates to the protection when the engine is at operating temp ie 90C. The first number tells you how well it flows during cold starts. In most cases a 5w will meet your needs in just about any climate. However if you are going to see -30C or colder then you really should think about going with a 0w40 oil instead.

DB
Drivbiwire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 5th, 2004, 22:31   #3
ele28
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: chicago
Fuel Economy: 43 MPG
Default Oil specifications VW505.01 vs. VW506.01

You should be fine using 506.1 if your car is equipped with oil sensor and MFA cluster, then you could benefit from longer intervals up to 50 000 km or 2 years. After oil change recode your cluster to flexible service or ask dealer to do so. All VW 506.1 are 0W30 and this is approved by factory. Since 2000 european vw are equipped with sensor to use this oil for flexible service for PD is 506.1 and for older TDI is 506.00. Check sticker in your manual or trunk for equipment code QG1 it’s for flexible service from factory, if GG0 -fixed interval and you are stuck with 505.1
ele28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 6th, 2004, 00:43   #4
Kharon
Newbie
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Default Oil specifications VW505.01 vs. VW506.01

Well, there's no mark of "QG1" in my service book. And there's no oil quality sensor and other related stuff considering Longlife service intervals. I just want to know if these specs differ from each other so much that I can't use VW 506.01 spec oils instead of VW 505.01. The main reason that I want to use the before mentioned Mobil oil is the viscosity and the fact that I somehow believe that the oil is better than the common 5W-40 VW505.01 oils. I just want the best for the engine in rough Finnish winter conditions.

So, are there any other different components in the "longlife engine" and "fixed service interval engine" than oil sensor and the MFA cluster?

I have not found any oil that meets VW505.01 spec and at the same time is 0W-40 oil. They are all 5W-40.
Kharon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 6th, 2004, 04:34   #5
dieseldorf
top post dawg
 
dieseldorf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: MA
Default Oil specifications VW505.01 vs. VW506.01

Quote:

Can I use VW506.01 instead of VW505.01? Any harm for the engine? Can I longer the oil change intervals? How VW505.01 and VW 506.01 differs?

Kharon, absolutely YES. 506.01 is simply the LongLife (LL) version of 505.01. All approved 506.01 oils are going to be 0W30 where 99% of the 505.01 oils will be 5W40.

The 506.01 is basically a super oil and has a super price attached - - it's likely twice the cost of 505.01. Yes, you should be able to travel farther with the 506.01 oil but how much farther, without the necessary monitoring, is the question.

Castrol has been running 506.01 oil in cars just like yours for 5 years without an oil change... I am not suggesting this but I would think you would want to change your oil by 20,000 miles without having the necessary monitoring sensor.


Current list of approved 506.01 oils:

Quote:
Addinol Addinol Mega light MV039 SAE 0W-30 50300/50600/50601
Agip Agip 7007 SAE 0W-30 50300/50600/50601
Aral Aral SuperTronic LongLife II SAE 0W-30 50300/50600/50601
BP BP Visco 7000 LongLife II SAE 0W-30 50300/50600/50601
Castrol Castrol Longlife 2 Top Up SAE 0W-30 50300/50600/50601
Castrol Castrol SLX LongLife II SAE 0W-30 50300/50600/50601
Elf Elf Evolution CRV SAE 0W-30 50300/50600/50601
Esso Esso Universal LD SAE 0W-30 50300/50600/50601
Fuchs Fuchs Titan Supersyn SL Longlife Plus SAE 0W-30 50300/50600/50601
Kuwait Petroleum Q8 Formula Excel EDX SAE 0W-30 50300/50600/50601
Mobil Mobil SHC Formula LD SAE 0W-30 50300/50600/50601
Motul Motul Specific 506 01 506 00 503 00 SAE 0W-30 50300/50600/50601
Shell Shell Helix Ultra X SAE 0W-30 50300/50600/50601
Texaco Havoline Synthetic 506.01 SAE 0W-30 50300/50600/50601
VAPS VAPSOIL 506 01 SAE 0W-30 50300/50600/50601
Veedol Veedol Syntron LongLife II SAE 0W-30 50300/50600/50601

Nice write up on ESI:

web page
dieseldorf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 6th, 2004, 09:04   #6
Bob V
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Texas
Default Oil specifications VW505.01 vs. VW506.01

VW 506.01 is a flex drain interval with computer on board.
Bob V is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 6th, 2004, 11:32   #7
JWaltersTDI
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Portland, Oregon
Default Oil specifications VW505.01 vs. VW506.01

OK, I know I have kicked this issue around on some of the other posts, but the question was never really answered..
I had originally asked about a group 4/5 PAO oil that met the 505.01 spec, which I was answered as "no", as they are based on group 3 for whatever additive reasons or "balance" to make them work. But my real question is that 506.01 IS a group 4 PAO, and can it be used in our US Spec PD's without voiding the warranty. I have no real desire to extend the drain interval, I just want the very best oil for my PD reguardless of cost. I have heard 506.01 is the holy grail so to speak for the PD longevity.
JWaltersTDI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 6th, 2004, 11:32   #8
JWaltersTDI
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Portland, Oregon
Default Oil specifications VW505.01 vs. VW506.01

OK, I know I have kicked this issue around on some of the other posts, but the question was never really answered..
I had originally asked about a group 4/5 PAO oil that met the 505.01 spec, which I was answered as "no", as they are based on group 3 for whatever additive reasons or "balance" to make them work. But my real question is that 506.01 IS a group 4 PAO, and can it be used in our US Spec PD's without voiding the warranty. I have no real desire to extend the drain interval, I just want the very best oil for my PD reguardless of cost. I have heard 506.01 is the holy grail so to speak for the PD longevity.
JWaltersTDI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 6th, 2004, 11:47   #9
dieseldorf
top post dawg
 
dieseldorf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: MA
Default Oil specifications VW505.01 vs. VW506.01

Quote:

I had originally asked about a group 4/5 PAO oil that met the 505.01 spec, which I was answered as "no", as they are based on group 3 for whatever additive reasons or "balance" to make them work.

All 505.01 oils are mineral oil based (Gr III). That does not indicate any sort of deficiency or shortcoming though some believe it does for this application.

Quote:
But my real question is that 506.01 IS a group 4 PAO, and can it be used in our US Spec PD's without voiding the warranty.
506.01 is simply the extended drain version of 505.01 and could be used in any PD anywhere in the world. (506.00 is the extended drain version of 505.00)

Would VWoA try to void your warranty for using it? Who knows? I wouldn't put anything beyond them




Quote:
I have no real desire to extend the drain interval, I just want the very best oil for my PD reguardless of cost. I have heard 506.01 is the holy grail so to speak for the PD longevity.

506.01 does appear to be an Uberoil...no other oil can do what it's capable of in a PD. The number of successful formulations is tiny; most submitted oils have failed. All 506.01 oils are 0W30 and all are GroupIV/V...meaning they are full synthetic oils. A mineral oil would never last as long as the LL spec requires.

I priced the Elf 506.01 oil out yesterday, it's $16/L not incl. S/H. IF I had a PD, I'd be giving strong consideration to this product and change it 1X per year. This product is considered an all-weather, any-condition oil.


Fact vs. Fiction

dieseldorf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 6th, 2004, 14:07   #10
Kharon
Newbie
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Default Oil specifications VW505.01 vs. VW506.01

Quote:
I just want the very best oil for my PD reguardless of cost. I have heard 506.01 is the holy grail so to speak for the PD longevity.
Oh yes! I agree! Me too! I just want the best for the engine in ANY circumstances. Including Finnish winter conditions. If you calculate the cost of the oil for example per a kilometer/mile during the oil change interval, the cost would be extremely small. I give you now an example: if you drive 15000 kms and you use 50 euros (4 liters of the VW506.01 Mobil stuff) for the cost of a oil change in this interval, it makes 0.003333 euros per km. By using VW506.01 oil, maybe you can double the oil change interval, so imagine what the cost will be then per a kilometer/mile. So I don't understand why not to use the best oils that are available?

I really don't care the fact that I could extend the oil change intervals when using VW506.01 oils, it's just an extra feature if I want to take the benefit of it. The main goal here is to have a reliable and a very well lubricated engine which will last forever...

I just don't understand the matter that why VW506.01 oils don't meet automatically also the VW505.01 specification?? Is it the viscosity or which facts that matter? I must be missing something now...

And thanx guys for your answers and comments, I really appreciate it.

BTW, do you know any web sites/articles which consider these two specifications? I used the Google, but there's TOO MUCH information and I can't get/find the information I wanted
Kharon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 6th, 2004, 14:25   #11
dieseldorf
top post dawg
 
dieseldorf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: MA
Default Oil specifications VW505.01 vs. VW506.01

Quote:
So I don't understand why not to use the best oils that are available?

I must be missing something now...


I am sure it comes down to a liability issue. The only thing you're missing is the sensor in your oil pan and the display in your instrument panel



VW would probably say don't use it since they can't trust the average driver to monitor the oil condition and would need to rely upon the car's sensor which you don't have. It's your car, it's your choice.




Here's the article you seek:



Quote:
LongLife Servicing and Castrol SLX LongLife II: <font color="666666"> How advanced engineering and oil has changed the way your Volkswagen is serviced. </font>



LongLife Service Regimes


The LongLife Service Regime is so called because there are no set service intervals and, depending on how you drive your vehicle and the conditions of use, a service will be required anywhere between 9,000 miles or 12 months (whichever occurs first), up to a maximum of 30,000* miles or 24 months (whichever occurs first).



This LongLife regime has been made possible due to the development of new Volkswagen engines with the latest technically advanced longlife oil. These engines use built-in sensors that continually monitor the oil quality, making it possible to enjoy reliable and confident motoring for up to a maximum of 30,000* miles or 24 months (whichever occurs first).


* The maximum of 30000 miles is for the 3 and 4 cylinder TDI diesel engine. All other diesel and petrol engines have a lower maximum mileage. Please consult your Volkswagen Retailer or repairer for full information.


It’s your choice.

All new Volkswagen cars (except the Lupo) are now manufactured with the LongLife service regime activated and the engine filled with longlife oil. However, your car is also capable of being serviced at a more traditional time of 12 months or 10000 miles (which ever occurs first). This regime is known as Time/Distance or Fixed for the Lupo.


Your Retailer will explain both systems and can reset your car to the Time/Distance regime at the Pre Delivery Inspection.



Whichever regime you choose, the vehicle dashboard service indicator will remind you when the service is due. With the Time/Distance regime this will be around 10000 mile or 12 months (which ever occurs first). With the LongLife service regime it could be anywhere between 9,000 miles or 12 months up to a maximum of 30,000* miles or 24 months, depending on the engine.


What LongLife Servicing can mean to you.

• Fewer visits to your Retailer or repairers workshop.
• Lower lifetime service costs.
• Less oil to dispose of, which is kinder to the environment.
• Fuel saving.

Your Retailer has a computer calculation that can illustrate the likely savings you will make on both the maintenance of your vehicle and the fuel bill using the LongLife and Time/Distance regimes.


Castrol SLX LongLife II Engine Oil.


Castrol SLX LongLife II is a fully synthetic engine oil formulated to satisfy the requirements of the Volkswagen LongLife service regime.


Not only is Castrol SLX LongLife II capable of meeting the demands of longer service intervals for both petrol and diesel engines, it is also one of the few oils that is approved to the Volkswagen Group standard for the latest generation of the ‘Pump Duse’ or PD direct injection diesel engines.




Castrol SLX LongLife II top up kits.



In the event you need to top up the engine oil between services Castrol have a Check it Kit containing:

• 1 litre of Castrol SLX LongLife II
• Dip stick wipe
• Disposable gloves
• Disposable funnel
• Contained a black vinyl case attachable to the luggage compartment lining.


So now you can easily check your oil level and ensure that the correct oil is used.


These kits are available from you Volkswagen retailer.



Answers to the most frequently asked questions.


Is the LongLife regime more expensive than the more traditional Time/Distance regime?


No. The basic service cost hasn’t changed, so because you need fewer services, you will save money. However, longlife oil is more expensive than conventional oil. So, if you choose the LongLife regime, there will be a corresponding increase in the cost of the oil replaced during a service. Importantly this increased cost must be seen in context. Over a period the reduced number of services means that the cost of ownership nearly always comes down.



Your Retailer has a computer calculation that can illustrate the likely savings you will make on both the maintenance of your vehicle and the fuel bill.


What is LongLife oil?



LongLife oil is an high grade, fully synthetic oil with increased resistance to ageing high temperatures. They are generally designated SAE OW-30, but must meet Volkswagen standards.


Most major manufactures produce oils conforming to standards 50300/50600, but Castrol SLX LongLife II is one of the few oils approved and recommended by Volkswagen to the 506.01 standard and must be used in the diesel PD engine that is on the LongLife service regime.

Do I have to use longlife oil all the time?



Yes, if you want to take advantage of the LongLife service regime.


<font color="red">Please note that if the engine is topped up with more than ˝ litre of non-longlife oil between services, the service indicator will come on earlier and the time or distance between services will be reduced. </font>



Can I really save money on my fuel bill?


Yes. Extensive tests carried out by Volkswagen have demonstrated that be using Castrol SLX LongLife II and the LongLife service regime can produce a saving of an average of 2.72% against your existing fuel bill where a standard oil is used.


Your Retailer has a computer calculation that can illustrate the likely savings you will make on both the maintenance of your vehicle and the fuel bill.



If I am on the LongLife service regime, I might not have my car serviced for up to 2 years; will this affect my warranty?





No, the warranty covers against defects of manufacture. However, if a component fails due to your car not being serviced to the Volkswagen recommendations, then this is not covered by the warranty.


I am concerned that my car can be used on the road for 2 years without any safety checks.



Many components are far longer lasting than they used to be. The front brake pads are electronically monitored, as is the engine oil level. The battery is maintenance free. Tyres are the most vulnerable item and you have an obligation to check these on a regular basis.


The instruction manual explains that the service indicator can be reset via the trip display button.



This is correct. However, if this resetting method is used, the service regime will automatically change to Time/Distance.

I am not sure what service regime is best for me.



The choice or regime can be dependent on how the car is driven and the conditions of use and it is impossible to state any hard and fast rules. However, it you are not sure Volkswagen recommends that your car be left set to the factories default of the LongLife regime. (After all you have paid for the technology and the longlife oil in the price of the car) Wait until the service indicator tells you that the 1st service is due. Then discuss with your Volkswagen Retailer or repairer the best regime to adopt.



To help you identify which regime might be best for you, please refer to the following guidance.


LongLife Regime.


To obtain the most benefit from the LongLife service regime, the car should to be generally driven in a style/condition of use listed below:

• Mainly longer distance journeys.
• Limited number of cold starts, engine is kept at operating temperature over a longer period of time.
• Daily mileage above approx. 25 miles.
• Constant speed.
• Vehicle used regularly.


Time/Distance Regime.


If your is driven in a style of use listed below, it may make sense to opt for the Time/Distance regime.

• Extremely uneconomical driving style ie continual maximum acceleration ie "foot to floor"
• Vehicle fully loaded
• Mainly short journeys.
• Frequent cold starts.
• Frequent hill climbs.
• Frequent towing.
• City Centre driving


For further information concerning the servicing regimes, please consult your Volkswagen Retailer or repairer for full details.



Please note that all mileage’s are approximate as the service indicator system uses kilometres as the distance measurement.



May 2003.



dieseldorf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 6th, 2004, 14:55   #12
Kharon
Newbie
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Default Oil specifications VW505.01 vs. VW506.01

[quote
All 505.01 oils are mineral oil based (Gr III). That does not indicate any sort of deficiency or shortcoming though some believe it does for this application.


[/QUOTE]

Could it be true that all VW505.01 oils are mineral oil based? Or I must now misunderstood something.

I emailed to an engineer who works at Teboil (a Finnish lubricant manufacturer) and I asked him some questions considering the specifications and oils. Teboil has launched an oil called Teboil Diamond Diesel 5W-40 which meets/exceeds the VW505.01 spec and it is a multi-synthetic and 100% fully synthetic oil. They have also launched an other oil Teboil Diamond Lonlife II 0W-30 oil which meets/exceeds the VW506.01 spec and naturally it is 100% fully synthetic oil.

This guy at Teboil recommend me <font color="red"> NOT </font> to use the Longlife oil because my car has the fixed service interval system and there are not the oil sensor and the MFA cluster in my car. He said that there's no need to use the Longlife oil and I won't get any benefit by using the Longlife oil in my car. He also said that the before mentioned oil meets the VW505.01 spec (which is the recommendation for my car according to the VW service book) but the Longlife II oil <font color="red"> DOES NOT </font> meet that specification. That is also a reason that I asked you guys these questions.

I also called the VW dealer here in Finland and asked if I could use the Longlife oil in my car. Yes, you can guess what was the answer. He said almost exactly the same words that there's no benefit by using the Longlife oil and he said also that there's only an oil additive added to the Longlife oil, other features in the oils are almost the same. He recommend me to use VW505.01 spec oil that are also mentioned and recommended in my VW service book.

I was a little bit confused...
Kharon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 6th, 2004, 15:08   #13
dieseldorf
top post dawg
 
dieseldorf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: MA
Default Oil specifications VW505.01 vs. VW506.01

Quote:




Volkswagen Group Oil Specifications and their Applications




VW 500.00
This is an "old" specification and is applicable to engines built before model year 2000 (up to August, 1999).

Viscosity ratings: SAE 5W-40, 10W-40 or 20W-40



This oil can be used in all gasoline engines and some diesel engines, apart from those referred to under other specifications.




VW 501.01
This is another "old" oil specification with exactly the same applications as VW 500.00.

Viscosity ratings: SAE 10W-40, 15W-40 or 20W-40





VW 502.00
This oil can be only used in gasoline engines and is recommended for those which are subject to arduous conditions. It must not be used for any engines with variable service intervals or any which are referred to under other specifications.

Viscosity ratings: SAE 0W-40, 5W-40 or 10W-40






VW 503.00
This is a new oil specification for gasoline engines with variable service intervals. It includes the Audi S4, but not the RS4, or the TT and S3 with outputs of more than 180bhp.

Viscosity rating: SAE 0W-30






VW 503.01
A new oil specification specifically for the RS4, and the TT and S3 with outputs of more than 180bhp.

Viscosity rating: SAE 0W-30





VW 505.00
For all diesel engines prior to model year 2000 (August 1999).

Viscosity ratings: SAE 0W-40, 5W-40 or 10W-40






VW 505.01
For all diesel engines with unit injectors (Pump-Deuse or PD) without variable service intervals.

Viscosity rating: SAE 5W-40





VW 506.00
For all diesel engines except those with unit injectors, with variable service intervals.

Viscosity rating: SAE 0W-30





VW 506.01
For all diesel engines, including those with unit injectors, with variable service intervals.

Viscosity rating: SAE 0W-30



Kharon, I think you are reading far too much in to a simple situation that I have clearly and thoroughly explained above. Didn't you like the answer What is it you are struggling with?
dieseldorf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 6th, 2004, 15:37   #14
dieseldorf
top post dawg
 
dieseldorf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: MA
Default Oil specifications VW505.01 vs. VW506.01

Quote:


I also called the VW dealer here in Finland and asked if I could use the Longlife oil in my car. Yes, you can guess what was the answer. He said almost exactly the same words that there's no benefit by using the Longlife oil and he said also that there's only an oil additive added to the Longlife oil, other features in the oils are almost the same.
that's entirely false. The two oils are radically different and share little in common except for the fact they both can be used in a PD anywhere in the world. See notes above.
dieseldorf is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 21:57.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright - TDIClub Online LTD - 2014
Contact Us | Privacy Statement | Forum Rules | Disclaimer
TDIClub Online Ltd (TDIClub.com) is not affiliated with the VWoA or VWAG and is supported by contributions from viewers like you.
© 1996 - 2013, All Rights Reserved
Page generated in 0.18524 seconds with 9 queries
[Output: 131.00 Kb. compressed to 111.99 Kb. by saving 19.02 Kb. (14.52%)]