Replaced belt, Car wont start procedure...

Nope its not air in the fuel line, Its not the cam timing because you pulled the engine through by hand right???? right And of course you followed the procedure EXACTLY the way it was posted...Ahh but it did not start so what could it be? 99% of the time its the injection pump lock pin. But of course you are thinking that you got it in the hole...Well guess again.

Below is the step by step including a picture that shows where the pin must be oriented to. The pin will insert anyhere on the pumps rotation but there is only one proper hole for this. If you use a mirror you can see the hole. If you are really in doubt remove the pulley and visually identify the hole in the pump. At the 11:00 oclock position is a sucker hole that most people seem to install the pin into. This hole/casting area is just far enough out of time that you will not get the car started. Another factor is the internal spring pressure inside the pump causes the pump to align with this casting. If you simply push the pin in, the pump has already aligned itself to the wrong orientation.Rule of thumb is that you ALWAYS need a crecent wrench to rotate the pump into the proper orientation. Follow the below procedure and the car will start:

DO NOT REMOVE THE ENGINE MOUNTS, leave them installed for this procedure

-Remove the valve cover
-remove the vacuum pump
-Insert cam lock tool
-Loosen BUT DO NOT REMOVE THE TENSIONER NUT
-Loosen the 3 bolts on the injection pump
-Loosen ALL THE TENSION on the belt tensioner
-Remove the cam pulley

Because you cant find the injection pumps alignment hole remove ALL 3 bolts then remove the injection pump pulley and look at the pump so that you can see where the proper hole is for alignment.


Red is incorrect, the yellow line is the proper alignment...yes that much off is all it takes and why so many people seem to get it wrong.

DO NOT TIGTHEN ANYTHING till its expressly stated to do so!!!

-Rotate engine so that its at TDC on the flywheel
-Reinstall the injection pump pulley and leave the 3 bolts loose Read: Loose NOT finger tight
-Insert the injection pump lock pin in the CORRECT HOLE this time
-Wrap the belt around its proper path over the pump Make sure that the Injection pump lock pin is centered in the hole so that you can adjust timing one way or the other.
-Reinstall the cam pulley
-Look at the injection pump lock pin, if its not centered in the hole do over till it is!!!

Now:

-Cam pulley is on the shaft and the nut is installed by hand and not torqued
-Injection pump lock pin is installed IN THE CORRECT HOLE THIS TIME and CENTERED in its elongated hole (give or take left or right of cener is ok)
-Cam is locked down
-Flywheel is EXACTLY, not close, but EXACTLY at TDC!!!!

NOW:

-Set the tension on the tensioner and torque down the nut.

-VERIFY engine to be at TDC!!!!
-VERIFY the injection pump lock pin to be centered in its hole
-TORQUE the cam bolt to 33 ft-lbs~
-VERIFY the engine is at TDC!!!!
-Snug up with a ratchet each of the 3 bolts on the injection pump pulley just enough to hold the pulley. Now snug them up then go back and tighten them down with the final torque.

-Remove the cam lock tool
-Remove the injection pump lock pin
-Reinstall the vacuum pump

DO NOT START THE ENGINE YET!!!!

-Pull the motor through by HAND and NOT THE STARTER!!!!
-You should feel good compression and the engine should pull through at least 1 revolution of the cam pulley

Now start the car, the car should start and fire immediately!

DB

Here is a pic I took while I was following the instructions from Drivebiwire.



Just slip the pin through the slot and into the hole.

Wow! This needs to be included as an addendum to the .PDF on doing the timing belt change.

I wasted about 6 extra hours today re-doing everything because I used the "sucker hole", which appeared to be around 12 o'clock on mine.
When I finally figured it out, I was thinking of that exact picture in my head to be included in the .pdf to save others the trouble!

Wow! This needs to be included as an addendum to the .PDF on doing the timing belt change.

Click to expand...

And how! This little writeup saved me from depths of frustration and despair. Ok, that's a little melodramatic, but you get the point.

Do you not have to worry about cam lobe orientation before inserting the cam lock tool?

Interesting, so on the above picture you insert the pin through the slot and the hole?
what then is the "sucker hole"?

chromeBuddha said:

Do you not have to worry about cam lobe orientation before inserting the cam lock tool?

Click to expand...

The cam lock plate will only insert if the camshaft is properly oriented.

paramedick said:

The cam lock plate will only insert if the camshaft is properly oriented.

Click to expand...

Not 100% accurate... some makes of cam lock plates can be "persuaded" to go in even when the camshaft's 180 degrees out... Your problem is that you're using a high quality tool from Metalnerd...

Yuri.

Guilty! Yes, the lobes must be up.

I used the metalnerd tools too... I guess my eyeball calibration is off, it just looked like it could go in there 180 out. I'll check it in about 80K...

paramedick said:

The cam lock plate will only insert if the camshaft is properly oriented.

Click to expand...

Fortuna Wolf said:

Interesting, so on the above picture you insert the pin through the slot and the hole?
what then is the "sucker hole"?

Click to expand...

I found that you can only put the locking pin in the correct hole when the injection pump sprocket is under tension (when turning it). You'll know what I mean when you do the procedure.

paramedick said:

At least there were no paint marks.

Click to expand...

Well, given your description, the car might actually have run better had the last "mechanic" used the Mark & Pray method...

Yuri.

dloomis said:

And how! This little writeup saved me from depths of frustration and despair. Ok, that's a little melodramatic, but you get the point.

Click to expand...

thats what you think... this caused me about 2.5 days for pure frustration and dispair....

You ain't gonna frickin believe this. TWO cars in one week with the IP off 180 degrees. Funny sounding 98 NB when it pulled into the garage.

Owner tells me that the dealer put 4 injections pumps on this car prior to his ownership, and did the last timing belt. Based on both car's histories, probably the same dealer. Ol' Don Jacobs IS NOT a good friend of mine......

Owner left with a smile on his face. More power, better performance, and "it really sounds like a diesel now!" It even started after a couple of cranks, something it never did during his ownership.

hahaha thats funny- yeah I properly timed my motor and it fired right up! Its clacking like mad (brand new head/ lifters) but it runs now!

paramedick said:

Pete, thank you for this.

I had an 02 TDI in the garage today for a TB replacement. When I lined everything up, the IP pin hole was actually 180 degrees out! I reoriented the pulley/pin hole to the proper location and locked the pump. When I pulled the engine through after replacing the belt, the pump lock pin hole ended up 180 degrees out again.

I followed this procedure, and results were perfect.

Click to expand...

any idea why the IP pin hole jumped 180* after you ran the belt through? I only ask because the PO of my 'new' TDi Jetta told me that MKI VW found the same situation on the car after a local stealership botched the job.

No clue, but it is aggravating. Extra work after the TB is done.

Next time, I'm just going to do the TB without pinning the pump if it's out at the beginning, then follow DBWs procedure. I've also learned to look first with a mirror when I lock the cam.

Could someone measure the TB tools with calipers or something and post the dimensions? I have machine shop experience and would like to make my own.

Be sure the Cam Lock is .177" where it enters the cam. You can use a piece of .250" for the blank but mill the center back .750" to the .177" (any less and you can insert it in the cam 180 deg. off!

I'm currently having timing issues and would like to know if it is possible for the car to start at all when this happens... Mine starts up, but only stays running when the garage air is warmer than around 18 C.. making me think the timing is retarded a bit.

Your thoughts?

...sucker

Yep. Same problem. Luckily i went to this site and within 25 minutes I was back in business. THANKS TDICLUB!!!!!

paramedick said:

I had an 02 TDI in the garage today for a TB replacement. When I lined everything up, the IP pin hole was actually 180 degrees out! I reoriented the pulley/pin hole to the proper location and locked the pump. When I pulled the engine through after replacing the belt, the pump lock pin hole ended up 180 degrees out again.

Click to expand...

Found #3 car today with pump 180 degrees out. IP pulley rotated fully to compensate.

I swear I'm going to the dealership, find that mechanic, and smack him up the side of the head!

Owner has been having cold start problems. She turned the key over post-TB, and instant Vrooom. BIG smile on her face.

This is good information. I did my timing belt yesterday, followed all the instructions and finished up just fine. The car started on the first try and ran good. Hooked up the VAG COM and saw that the timing was slightly retarted. Went to advance the timing and found that I had no more slot left. The marks on the pully show that the bolts were tighted down with no more room for adjustment from the factory. Since I did not center the bolts in the slots when I did the tb change I now have no room for adjustment. Now I have to go back, following the instructions in this thread, and recenter the bolts in the slots. That should be a very important step added to the A4 tiing belt change instructions. At least I don't have to remove the engine mount.

Does the "Timing Belt video CD" (one at the top of this page) tell you to lock the IP? I couldn't find it. We relied on the ".pdf" file that came on the CD (which did tell you to lock the IP). I could have used the above photo last weekend....but the TDI gods were smiling down upon us. We were successful (at two TB changes) despite our lack of knowledge and the perfect picture above. Thanks so much. You guys do great work.

KKennedy said:

Does the "Timing Belt video CD" (one at the top of this page) tell you to lock the IP?

Click to expand...

That part sort of got lost in the editing phase of production... Of course Glen locks the pump when replacing a belt, but you won't see it on the video... That's why it's useful to have more than one reference before doing a job like this...

Yuri.

PS: as well as Drivbiwire's great belt replacement PDF:
http://pics.tdiclub.com/pdf/a4timingbelt.pdf I would recommend all prospective belt changers download Oldpoopie's checkoff list:
http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/517/5254timing_belt_checklist.pdf

This thread should be a sticky....

I second the sticky vote. I think this should also be an addendum to the pdf file. I ran into this same problem yesterday and with a this info I would have been finished a lot sooner. Big thanks for posting this info up, it saved my butt.

Tdc?

Concerning http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=183152 on an 01 nb tdi auto. I do not have any marks that I can see on the trany case so I just put the -0- at the extreme bottom of the window, is this correct?

Great pdf on the tb change and great write up on this procedure also, thank for all the help.

What happened to the great photos on this thread.

I'm unable to adjust the IP pulley forwards or backwards. I mean, I can turn the entire pulley just fine, but if I want to advance or retard the timing by making the bolts move forward or backwards in their slots, I can't. It seems like the inner part of the pulley and the outer part are seized together. Any suggestions? (This is at the tail end of a timing belt job. The car will start, but both times I started it, I needed to turn the key for about 15-20 seconds before it started, so I'm assuming timing is off.)
Also, is it a big no-no to remove the injection pulley from the car? Bentley manual seemed to suggest that it is, but earlier in this thread there was a picture with the pulley removed.