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Old June 2nd, 2004, 04:04   #1
Blue_Thunder
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Default Trying to Determine BEST Cetane Booster

OK, I'm trying to get to the bottom of which Cetane booster is best.

I "googled" Cetane boost review ... and one of the most interesting links was to the EPA's www site where they actually list every Cetane booster known to man.

Here is one that caught my eye:

http://www.synergynracing.com/produc...taneboost.html

My questions are twofold.

Has anyone used this?

IF in fact you do not need a 20+ Cetane boost would increasing the fuel's Cetane level by twenty points beyond what it is when you pump it cause any problems to your engine? Or would it be comparable to using a high test octane in a car that doesn't need it? Won't help, but won't hurt?

Thanks gang.
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Old June 2nd, 2004, 04:05   #2
Blue_Thunder
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Default Trying to Determine BEST Cetane Booster

Here is the link to the EPA site that lists all the Cetane boosters:

http://www.epa.gov/otaq/regs/fuels/a...e/web-addt.txt
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Old June 2nd, 2004, 04:12   #3
Blue_Thunder
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Default Trying to Determine BEST Cetane Booster

Here is an 8+ Cetane booster.

http://www.fppf.com/prd8PlusCI01.html
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Old June 2nd, 2004, 04:14   #4
Blue_Thunder
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Default Trying to Determine BEST Cetane Booster

Details on Redline's "85 Plus"

http://www.redlineoil.com/whitePaper/7.pdf
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Old June 2nd, 2004, 04:24   #5
Blue_Thunder
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Default Trying to Determine BEST Cetane Booster

But, it would appear that the removal of sulpher from the diesel fuel has been the main concern of many diesel mechanics. Does the TDI benefit therefore from products that supply what the sulpher removal took away?

This seems to be a popular additive here:

http://www.stanadyne.com/dsg/dsg_dfa.asp

Here is what one diesel mechanic had to say.

"As you know sulfer is no longer available in diesel fuel. This was the main lubricating property of the fuel. Since then the injection pump shops have been flooded with work because of the lack of lubrication in diesel fuel. John Deere recomends using Stantadyne year round fuel conditioner with every fill up. The injection service that I use strongly recomends this treatment, or something with LUBRICATION ADDITIVE in all diesel engines. They have "fixed" many fuel systems by dosing them with this additive. I myself add it to every tank. This conditioner costs around $0.08 per gallon to use however, there is a noticable increase in horsepower and fuel economy. Also, since sulfur was removed the pour point of diesel fuel was raised about! 20 degrees F. This means that the pur point of #2 fuel 3 years ago was 20 degrees F. Today it is now 40 degrees F. This fuel conditioner lowers the pour point 40 degrees F., that goes for both #2 and #1 fuels. I am not trying to sell you guys on this specific fuel conditioner, but I feel that it is something that diesel owners should be aware of to try to lower the risk of premature injection pump and injector failure. I do not however know Cummins standpoint on this issue. But as I said the injection service that I use recommends additive for ALL injection systems."

This came from a very informative page:

http://dodgeram.org/tech/dsl/FAQ/diesel_fuel.htm
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Old June 2nd, 2004, 04:44   #6
03_01_TDI
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Default Trying to Determine BEST Cetane Booster

Most people are very happy with good ole Power Service thats sold at the local Wal-Mart I use 7oz of power service and 1oz of soyshield per tank.
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Old June 2nd, 2004, 04:46   #7
Blue_Thunder
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Default Trying to Determine BEST Cetane Booster

Stanadyne's official brochure on its additive:

http://www.stanadyne.com/dsg/showfile.asp?id=1295
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Old June 2nd, 2004, 05:04   #8
BeetleGo
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Default Trying to Determine BEST Cetane Booster

Hi Paul,

Have you done a search on THIS website? There have been past discussions on cetane levels, why US market diesel is consistently too low for VW specs (they want us to use nothing less than 50), how biodiesel is an effective cetane solution (typically having numbers between upper 40's and low 60's), what effect that has on your engine (much smoother, more complete combustion, easier starting, less mess in your intake), and which products people around here use, and why.

Try checking out the fuels section of this site. There is a link at the top of the page for searches that is pretty easy to use and lets you do a pretty customized search. I'd start with 'cetane' and then follow your nose from there. At almost 7 million entries on this site (or is it more than that now?!) you will be one informed puppy when you're done!

I use Power Service, 8oz's; winterizing formula in winter. B20 year round.

~Beetlego
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Old June 2nd, 2004, 05:27   #9
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Default Trying to Determine BEST Cetane Booster

Putting very large doses of cetane improver (such as 20,000 parts per million of 2EHN) into ultra-low sulfur diesel (ULSD) could cause fuel instability and filter plugging, a research project at Cummins found.

However, "it's not an issue with normal dosing" of octane improver, as now-retired Cummins researcher Dave Stehouwer explained to us in an interview following his presentation of a paper (SAE 2003-01-3140) at Society of Automotive Engineers powertrain conference.

The main point of the SAE paper is to alert refiners, pipelines and marketers to the possibility of harmful interactions caused by certain fuel additives. Example: Dimer-acids used as pipeline corrosion inhibitors or as lubricity improver can react with certain lube additives to plug fuel filters. Fortunately, no-harm alternative lubricity improvers are available.

Tests involved ordinary 400-ppm sulfur fuel, a commercial ULSD fuel (BP's "ECD,") a research ULSD fuel (from Phillips) and a 20% blend of biodiesel in a 300-ppm sulfur non-road commercial diesel fuel. All were additized with 20,000 ppm of 2EHN to accelerate instability for the test.

~Biodiesel The "Least Stable" Among Fuels

The "least stable sample is the B20 biodiesel even [though] it contains a substantial amount of sulfur," the researchers found. "We conclude that the instability of B20 biodiesel blend with off-highway diesel fuel comes from an acid-catalyzed hydrolysis of the ester components from the biodiesel."

Nor are problems likely to arise solely from the deliberate mixing of used oil with fuel, as with the Cummins "Centinel" recycling system. While that system results in about a 3,000-ppm dose of lube oil in fuel, the newer high-pressure fuel injection systems also result in about 1,000-ppm of lube in fuel, Stehouwer explains.

A separate test of cetane improver in 20% biodiesel blend (B20) found even worse instability problems, the researchers found. This is of special concern because modern high-pressure injection systems circulate a lot of fuel through hot injectors (as a heat sink) for return to storage tank.

That's why engine makers are pressing for a tough thermal stability limit in American Society for Testing & Materials (ASTM) D975 diesel fuel standard, as well as similarly tough thermal stability limits for biodiesel blends.

With diesel fuel, careful fuel blending and proper additization could avoid stability problems, Stehouwer points out. Otherwise, thermally-unstable fuels could form gums that could plug filters and cause injectors to stick, resulting in costly repairs, he said.
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Old June 2nd, 2004, 14:41   #10
GoFaster
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Default Trying to Determine BEST Cetane Booster

I tried a bottle of Amsoil cetane booster once. The amount of noticeable difference was precisely 0. Zip, zero, nada. Haven't bothered since.

The sulfur issue is a non-issue. Your engine is designed to run on low sulfur fuel. As long as the fuel meets the ASTM lubricity specifications - and all purchased fuel is supposed to - it is good enough.

Some people like using lubricity additives and/or injector cleaners as insurance against possible fuel quality problems. If you're concerned about it, go to a truck stop or auto parts store and use whatever you can get at a reasonable price. Here, that's Kleen-Flo (at UAP/Napa). The PowerService stuff is very expensive.

You can add all the cleaners you want, it will not be a substitute for using good quality fuel in the first place. Use the best stuff that's available in your area.

Skypup loves pooping on biodiesel. Poor quality biodiesel can indeed cause lots of trouble. Even the good biodiesel is not as stable as standard fuel (it's biodegradable!), but the timeframe for deterioration is measured in months, not in the week or so that it takes me to go through a full tank and the week or two that the (busy) station has the fuel in their underground tank. I use canola-based B20, no worries.

Used oil in the fuel ... watch it, I betcha the Cummins that they tried that on didn't have a catalyst, and your VW does. Ashless two-stroke oil in small doses should be OK. Any oil that has solid contaminants or contains metal or other "ash" (most 4-stroke oils contain metal compounds as additives - calcium, molybdenum, etc) is surely a recipe for a clogged catalyst in the long run!
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Old June 2nd, 2004, 17:58   #11
greenskeeper
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Default Trying to Determine BEST Cetane Booster


I am wondering if Centane Boost is relative to Octane boost for gassers.

My thinking is that at least with Octane boosters, when they say raises octane by "5 points" that actually means going from 87 octane to 87.5

In other words the "points" is actually tenths of a whole number.

This would make sense because the Powerservice bottle says "raises Centane by up to 6 numbers."

Not trying to burst your bubble but maybe that one thats raises Centane "20 points" is actually only "2 numbers".
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Old June 3rd, 2004, 04:58   #12
SkyPup
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Default Trying to Determine BEST Cetane Booster

Power Service here is very cheap and the nearest retail BD outlet is over 175 miles away.
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Old June 3rd, 2004, 13:33   #13
gdr703
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Default Trying to Determine BEST Cetane Booster

Quote:
OK, I'm trying to get to the bottom of which Cetane booster is best.
My questions are twofold.

Has anyone used this?

IF in fact you do not need a 20+ Cetane boost would increasing the fuel's Cetane level by twenty points beyond what it is when you pump it cause any problems to your engine? Or would it be comparable to using a high test octane in a car that doesn't need it? Won't help, but won't hurt?

Thanks gang.
Cetane booster consists largely of a chamical EHN, but there are others. However the effectiveness of them dpends on the nature of the fuel, if its basically high in aromatics, then the effect of the cetane booster will be less, if it high in paraffinics the effect of the cetane booster will be more.
Thus the effect a dose of EHN is typically a 5 number improvement, but it could be 3, or 8.
Adding more Cetane booster yields diminishing returns, so if the first dose gave it +5 the second dose will give a further +3, or thereabouts. but, its all relative to the base fuel.
I do not think it possible to boost cetane number +20 with any additive chemical currently known, so I'd be highly suspicious of that one.

Assuming its possible to take the diesel fuel available to us and boost it to cetane 60 the effect would be that the fuel would ignite very soon after injection, the "ignition timing is advanced effect" which would likely manifest itself in reduced diesel clatter at idle, a smooth sounding engine, especially when cold, very capable at low rpm, lacking a tad of power at high rpm. It wouldnt damage your engine at all, and in some respects it would help.
hth
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Old June 3rd, 2004, 13:57   #14
tongsli
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Default Trying to Determine BEST Cetane Booster

I've tried:

power service
diesel kleen
amsoil cetane boost
Stanadyne
Power Stroker
Soyshield

My favorites are Power Stroker and Stanadyne

I do notice a difference using it in my car. It runs quieter, but then again, I use more than 2 ounces per tankful.
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Old June 3rd, 2004, 14:39   #15
wny_pat
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Default Trying to Determine BEST Cetane Booster

I wonder if we really want a "Cetane Booster"? Seens to me that it is wishful thinking for more "power", "torque", or "horsepower". If we want that we should buy a bigger diesel.
I would think it would be better to use something to keep the fuel from growing fungi and to remove any moisture. Buying the best diesel fuel available seems to be the best idea yet. It should have those things. Problem is that it is hard to find out what we are buying. The attendants probably don't even know where the fuel comes from, let alone what quality it is. All they seem to know is that it comes in a big tank truck. If you want to know about the fuel you are purchasing, you have to go to the lab where it is refined or send a sample to another lab.
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