No start condition, engine cranks but no start

My 2001 NB has a no start condition, Timing belt and all fitlers were changed 1 week ago Sun. 2-21, car ran fine for 5 days, stalled once Friday 2-27 acted as if running out of fuel but restarted. Yesterday 2-28 it left my wife stranded it cranks tries to run but just stops, today 2-29 I found fuel filter is dry, tank is full, is there a relay controlled lift pump problem I should be looking at, I pulled the 109 relay and opened it up readings across coil lugs 85-30 are 0 ohm, and readings with contacts closed lugs 87-30 also 0 ohm I don't know what the resistive value shoud be but reads 0 ohm across the coil, Isee there is a fixed resistor across bottom of coil shouldn't I be reading that resistance . What exactly does the 109 relay power up? Is the 109 relay a dealer only part or does local part house carry them?

Tim

1. Please read the TDIFAQ concerning no-start troubleshooting. You don't need to be monkeying around with meters to rule out Relay 109 or ignition switch problems. It's much easier than that.

2. The fact that you changed the fuel filter a week ago begs the question, did you get the O-rings in the plastic T-fitting seated correctly?? It's possible that air is leaking in at this point.

TDI engines don't have a "lift pump" a.k.a. electric in-the-tank pump. The fuel pump on the engine is the only one, and it draws fuel up from the tank by vacuum.

If the fuel filter has no fuel in it, check that the drain at the bottom is (1) installed, (2) not loose, (3) not broken.

More info,

Fuel filter was not bone dry, only top of it was dry, I removed the fitting for fuel return to tank hoses with 2 blue arrows in and out and put maybe 1 oz of fuel in filter before it would take no more. Supply hose to IP was full when I removed that hose.

I have been through the FAQs multiple readings just in case I missed something but will go again.

Engine crank is strong and bat voltage is SAT.

No check engine lite for fault indication, does come on with start attempt along with glow and water tenp.

Following extended crank 30 sec or so black smoke is coming from exhaust, it's trying but just not making it.

Installed new o rings that came with the filter, tee fitting is snug, Vag Com listed nearby to check timing did not answer my email a week ago maybe old email address looks like I might have to carry to dealer.

I tried to find a 109 relay at local part house since it's function not idfentified they could not pin it down or cross to VW's PN.

Last maint action as listed before was all filts and time belt change had full set of MN tools and I was anal about keeping timing marks at setting, operated successfully for a week, no fault indications during that week.

I've owned since Sep. 2003 got used at 63K mile, now at 73 K I think this was 1st time belt change according to VW owner maint log book.

Prior to belt change there were a couple of incidents of erratic idle engine rev up and down on it's own accord 1000-1500 rpm while stopped at traffic light or parking lot. A couple of times engine shut down all together but restarted, dealer could not find any code and problem "went away".

Same symptoms Friday shutdown at stop while driving then restart, Saturday no start condition after normal shutdown in parking lot. Had it towed home for trouble shooting.

Maybe it's getting fuel, but not getting air. Maybe the EGR valve or changeover valve (inside the EGR valve) is sticking. Check inside valve for gunk.

I would've thought that the timing might have been off after getting the belt changed. I was thinking that if the bolts to the injection pump were loose it would go retarded. The tensioner is installed and adjusted properly, right?

On some older tdi's, like 98's, there was an issue of o-rings not seating properly on the fuel shutoff valve which would cause changing idling. I think they fixed that in the later models though.

It's not hard to check the fuel pickup. Maybe it's clogged, but you're getting fuel...

Velvet foot you got it, I checked EGR it was stuck closed why I don't know, I just pulled it open and the buggy started right away now I'll pull apart and see why it's sticking.

When all else fails go back to basics gotta have air and fuel, would say spark but this is a Diesel

Now that it's out of the rain and in the garage I can work on it in detail, not sure EGR is correct description, in a gasser carb I'd call what is sticking a thottle plate, I'll post findings when I get it apart Many Thanks at least I can get it to run now.

WAIT. There is a vacuum line going to that changeover valve. I, and others, have twisted off the plastic nipple the hose goes on. Be careful taking off that hose, if you have to.

Words too late I didn't break the nipple, I broke the flapper actuator vac. motor arm, the plastic had hardened and the arm broke when I spread it to try and get it off the flapper stud. If not too expensive I'll get a new one, if expensive looks like a job for JB weld /images/graemlins/smirk.gif. What is up with VW hoses, do they all self form to the nipple they attach to? I was pulling the vac motor as I thought it might be easier to get off than the form fitted hose.

Okay back to FAQS I was going to ask if this crudding up is routine evidently so, it's in the FAQ maintenance section cleaning of EGR and Intake, how often must this be done, as crudded as my EGR at 71K is lokks like I'll need to keep my borescope from work handy and make this a periodic inspection check.

How difficult is it to remove intake with engine installed, how much PITA element is involved, I survived a timing belt change on my own cussing close quarters of VW design team shuffing 10 lbs of junk in a 7 lb box. If extended warranty won't cover it, is it worth taking to dealer or not?

I posted some photos of the gooked up EGR valve in my photo area, looking around I see I have company.

Tim

The bad news: that is not a separately available part. JB Weld, and other methods, have been used by others taking this wrong turn in the route to a clean intake. Some successful, some not.

It is far better to cut a vacuum hose and replace it, rather than risk breaking a plastic piece.

It figures, way my luck runs, so is it part of the EGR assembly when going for a new one?

Yes, but the valve is $190.06 plus shipping, mail order from IMPEX. P/N 038131501E.

Okay new question, is the vac actuator for the changeover/anti shudder valve supposed to bleed off under vacuum, for curiosity sake I pulled vac on it and the plastic rod did not stay pulled in I could pull it in as long as vac applied but if left to bleed off, add vac and then hold the rod would re-extend.

I have strong suspicion that the actuator is on it's way out & is cause of intermittent stalls previously experienced, and accumulation of crud has aggrivated condition when changeover/anti shudder flapper sticks in the crud.

Yes, it can bleed off.

That metal plate inside the valve is supposed to be horizontal when the engine is running. It stays that way until you shut off the car. Then the vacuum is supplied to the actuator to move the valve plate to vertical and cut off the air supply. About 3 seconds later, the vacuum is to be released. The bleed off is a crude back up to that.

What was happening in your case was that the valve was sticking closed (no start) or partially re-opening. When partially closed it is possible for the rush of the air through the intake will shove the valve closed and cause poor performance (not fully closed) or stall the engine (full closed). It's like having your hand out the window of a moving car. Horizontal and little effect. Move it slightly vertical and you suddenly have wind resistance and the more vertical it goes.

This has happened to many cars over the years.