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VW MKIV-A4 TDIs (VE and PD) This is a general discussion about A4/MkIV Jetta (99.5-~2005), Golf(99.5-2006), and New Beetle(98-2006). Both VE and PD engines are covered here.

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Old January 26th, 2008, 11:43   #61
Richy_T
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PDJetta
Just make sure you have the correct socket for the PP bolts. Mine required a 9 MM 12-point socket, I think.

--Nate
Fortunately, my main sockets are all 12point. Annoyingly though, VW have gone from 6-sided to 12-point on the hub nuts and I had to drive around quite a bit to track one of those down (That size was not in my main sockets).

Rich
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Old January 28th, 2008, 07:14   #62
cha$e
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clintontull
Welp clutch changed and the clutch was weird at first but after 800-1000 miles its back to normal and has seated it self well. NO SLIP what so ever.
So...does that mean it's normal for it to slip at first? I have a manual A4 Jetta, and I just upgraded flywheel and clutch (to Sachs G60), completing the work about 5 days ago. Since then I've done about 30 miles of city driving and 300 of freeway driving. It's slipping like crazy, especially in the higher gears. Think it'll just go away, or do I need to tear it apart again? If the latter, any ideas on what I may have done wrong?

Also, is it really necessary to bleed the clutch line? If so, why? It seems to me that it's a closed system - you don't do anything to let air in, so why do you need to bleed it?
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Old February 4th, 2008, 18:33   #63
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Job all done. This has been a cloud hanging over me for the last month so it's good to have it out of the way.

I was surprised to see the flywheel I ordered was different from the one that was on there but soon twigged that what I had previously was a dual mass flywheel and what I'd bought was a single mass flywheel. No worries there and that crack in the flywheel would have been nagging at the back of my mind everywhere I drove so well worth the upgrade. In fact, given the minor difference in price between the DMF clutch kit and the SMF upgrade kit, I would say this is probably worth doing if you're working on the clutch, especially with some of the horror stories I've seen on here.

Managed to get by without any special tools. Securing the flywheel for removing/tightening of the bolts was attained by the scientific method of jamming the handle from my floor jack between one of the teeth of the flywheel and the ground. The engine did move around a little but by applying the torque just right, it was pretty steady. Clutch plate alignment was pretty straightforward. I offered up the plate to the flywheel then put the pressure plate over that. With three of the bolts finger tight, I put my finger through the splined hole and moved the clutch plate around with finger pressure until it felt centered and then tightened the bolts (human fingers are very sensitive. I had a teacher who claimed he could feel if even a single page had been torn from a work book just by feeling the difference in the thickness).

I left both the flanges on. I felt it was worth giving it a try to see if I could get it in without removing them and it was. The trick is you have to lift the transmission a couple of inches higher than its final resting place to get the rear of the transmission over the suspension parts (This was performed with the transmission balanced on a piece of wood on top of the floor jack, giving quite a lot of freedom of movement. Not sure how this would go with a standard transmission jack). Once there, it's just a case of jiggling around until the splined shaft slips in then getting the dowels lined up. After that, it's just the long slow job of putting everything back. An uneventful procedure. I performed standard manual bleeding of the clutch which didn't have any problems other than I found out that what I thought I had purchased as a one-man bleeding kit actually wasn't. Still, I knew I got married for a reason.

With all the mechanicals back together, a test drive showed everything was fine. I tell you, as that car came down off the axle stands, it was like a weight was coming off my shoulders. It was way past dark then so I called it a night. Used the car the next morning then spent the afternoon putting all the trimmy bits back, finally installing my frost heater Christmas prezzie, fixing a puncture and giving it a much needed wash.

Drove it to work today and woohoo fun. Nice to have it back too. i've been driving my wife's new beetle (which she's glad to have back too) which is OK but the Jetta is definitely a nicer drive in my book. The clutch really feels no different to the old clutch, perhaps a touch lighter. Certainly no jerkier. Not really sure of the point of DMFs in that case.

In the end, I replaced the flywheel and pressure plate bolts as these came with the upgrade kit and the transmission mounting bolts which I obtained from the dealer. Not too bad.

Anyway, this has probably been too-much-information but there you go.

Now if only my elbow joints will stop aching. Bench pressing a transmission is a little outside my comfort zone.

Rich
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Old February 4th, 2008, 18:45   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cha$e
So...does that mean it's normal for it to slip at first? I have a manual A4 Jetta, and I just upgraded flywheel and clutch (to Sachs G60), completing the work about 5 days ago. Since then I've done about 30 miles of city driving and 300 of freeway driving. It's slipping like crazy, especially in the higher gears. Think it'll just go away, or do I need to tear it apart again? If the latter, any ideas on what I may have done wrong?

Also, is it really necessary to bleed the clutch line? If so, why? It seems to me that it's a closed system - you don't do anything to let air in, so why do you need to bleed it?
I'm 100% sure it shouldn't slip. Are you sure you had the plates clean when you installed it all? I cleaned the flywheel and pressure plate surfaces as late as possible in the installation process to ensure they were as grease free as possible and was ultra careful with the clutch plate itself to not touch with my fingers (yes, a little overkill I'm sure).

I would think that it's not the hydraulics holding the clutch disengaged (though that's a possibility) which pretty much leaves friction issues. Either the clutch could be greasy or possibly the pressure plate is not tightened down fully. I guess also could be the throwout bearing or the levery thing might not be returning enough. Could also be an engineering defect of course.

I would definitely pull it apart ASAP. My clutch went from slipping occasionally in extreme conditions to completely dead in the space of a couple of miles because my wife didn't know how to handle a slipping clutch (she's a manual newbie). If it's slipping, that's friction and if there's friction, that's wear. On a clutch that's going anyway, that's not an issue but on a brand new one, you could be taking hundreds of miles of use off of the thing.

Course I could be wrong. But I would genuinely not expect a new clutch to slip.

Oh, you have to bleed the clutch cause air gets in when you disconnect the clutch line from the slave. I think you could theoretically do the job by disconnecting the slave from the transmission without disconnecting the line from the slave. However, it seemed to me that without the plate holding the piston back inside the body of the slave, the piston actually comes out of the bore and you could have air enter the system that way. I disconnected the line from the slave anyway so it's a moot point for me. Bleeding certainly wasn't arduous. (Except for the kit I bought the collection bottle was very small and whilst I was watching to make sure the reservoir didn't empty, the bottle filled up and sprayed out brake fluid. Back to my jam jars next time (I would have this time too if I didn't happen to have the kit already in my hand))

Rich

Last edited by Richy_T; February 4th, 2008 at 18:55.
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Old February 4th, 2008, 19:46   #65
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Default 02 NB clutch problems

Clutch will not disengage completly. Have replaced master cylinder and inspected line and slave cylinder and found nothing wrong. Can anyone tell me how for their clutch fork moves being viewed from the timing sight hole on the tranny.I can just fill the edge of the
fork when I stick my finger in the hole.
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Old February 5th, 2008, 06:48   #66
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What are the symptoms of it not disengaging completely? I wonder if the plate could jam on the splined shaft...

Rich
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Old February 5th, 2008, 10:04   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richy_T
What are the symptoms of it not disengaging completely? I wonder if the plate could jam on the splined shaft...

Rich
Grinding gear in reverse when the car is at rest (because there is no sychro in reverse gear), and hard to get out of forward gears. I specified forward because it is sometimes hard to get out of reverse when the car is in motion.
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Old February 5th, 2008, 10:58   #68
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Actually, I meant for Sami to describe his symptoms in case that might give any clue as to what was causing the problem.
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Old February 5th, 2008, 13:26   #69
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Not disengaging as when the clutch pedal is pushed down, I rev the engine and just fill the trans trying to pull the car forward. This is why I asked about clutch fork movement, just trying to isolate the problem to hydraulic or mechanical.
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Old February 5th, 2008, 18:19   #70
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Well, if you've replaced the master cylinder, you've rebled the system at least once (I do hope). I'd be inclined to suspect the mechanical, maybe the clutch getting hung up on the spline but maybe not. I'm not sure if that would give enough force to cause your symptoms. could be some foreign matter caught between the clutch and the flywheel and pressure plate? It's all guesswork for me at this point.

If you hold the clutch down, does it gradually bite more or is it pretty stable? Have you been losing any brake fluid?

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Old February 6th, 2008, 14:52   #71
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Clutch stays about the same when pedal pressed down but is getting harder to shift, have to kinda feal your way in gear as the revs come down. Anyway, Thanks for the reply, I am just trying to avoid pulling the trans but its seems that I am headed in that direction. Will plan it along with TB change and manifold cleaning. Yea!
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Old February 6th, 2008, 17:46   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richy_T
I think you could theoretically do the job by disconnecting the slave from the transmission without disconnecting the line from the slave. Rich
I'm not really sure exactly what you mean by "slave" but I think that's what I did. I disconnected the clutch line at the point where it goes directly into the transmission (i.e. forward of where it zigzags) and didn't disconnect that line from the other end anywhere. The clutch is gripping pretty high (I barely have to push down the pedal to get to the breaking point) so I guess I must have gotten air in there somehow - thanks for explaining how that could have happened.

I'll try to bleed it this weekend (had surgery on my foot on Monday so may not be in the mood to go into the garage!) and post an update.

Thanks for the advice!
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Old February 8th, 2008, 09:49   #73
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[Edit: In order to avoid confusion because Cha$e's issue is almost the diametric opposite to Sami's, I think I'd best specify that this is in reply to Cha$e]

When you activate the master with your foot, it pushes fluid through the line and the slave is what moves at the other end. It's a black thing sitting on the top of the transmission and is bolted horizontally.

The line is held in the slave with a small wire clip. If you unplugged the line at all, air got in and it will need to be bled. If that were an issue in your case though, the clutch would be failing to disengage rather than slipping

Note that if anything, one would expect a clutch to be slightly grabby after a change until things wear in a little. Mine was not noticably though.

I'm starting to suspect that your pressure plate may not have been installed properly. That's something that should be possible to check through the inspection hole. Make sure it is seated on the dowels fully and that all the bolts are as far in as they should be.

Rich

Last edited by Richy_T; February 8th, 2008 at 10:00.
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Old February 9th, 2008, 22:20   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PDJetta
They changed the torque value on the engine mount big bolts as well, at some point, too--no more "plus 90 degrees" turn, but with a higher single torque value.

--Nate
Hmmm, did the "plus 90 degrees" go away on the head bolts too and what is the new torque value for them? Where do you download this update? I have the Bentley Manual and CD too but never looked for updates.

This is good info!
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Old February 9th, 2008, 22:23   #75
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... I'm getting ready to change clutch on an A5. Should I get these special tools or can I get by without them? Anyone have tried and true methods down pat that don't use the special tools? Trying to figure out what I need so I minimize down time.

Regards,

Brian
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My engine doesn't run, it beats fuel into submission
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