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Go Back   TDIClub Forums > TDI Model Specific Discussions Areas > VW MKIV-A4 TDIs (VE and PD)

VW MKIV-A4 TDIs (VE and PD) This is a general discussion about A4/MkIV Jetta (99.5-~2005), Golf(99.5-2006), and New Beetle(98-2006). Both VE and PD engines are covered here.

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Old August 2nd, 2003, 09:52   #1
aherold
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Corpus Christi, TX
Default TDI Club help! Why is my car hard starting?

I have been having hard starts for about 6 months. When my car sits for awhile, overnight for example, it starts right up. However if i have driven it recently and then try to start, it can take from 5-8 seconds to turn over. i know my battery is good, my injection timing is correct (Checked by a tdi member) and i just had my fuel filter changed. What could be causing this? it doesn't seem like it could be the starter because it cranks up right away in the mornings. Any thoughts?
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Old August 2nd, 2003, 09:55   #2
weedeater
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Reston, VA
Fuel Economy: 54/43/38
Default TDI Club help! Why is my car hard starting?

Have you done a search on warm start problems.?
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Old August 2nd, 2003, 12:53   #3
aherold
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Default TDI Club help! Why is my car hard starting?

thanks weedeater. did some research and i can't believe how common this problem is. why don't these starters last?

also, will it hurt anything not to fix this problem? my car still starts fine, it's just a little embarrassing sometimes when it takes 8 seconds or so.
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Old August 2nd, 2003, 18:29   #4
duh
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Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: NY
Fuel Economy: 61/55/46
Default TDI Club help! Why is my car hard starting?

I want to throw in a TDI experience here that should be considered an "outlier" but cleared up a hard start problem (when cold and warm, but worse when warm.) It turned out to be a replacement of the clutch assembly (flywheel, clutch, etc.) The foreshadow that was ignored was a low clutch pedal, (grabbing about 1/2" off the floor) and, when started while depressing clutch pedal in any gear, the engine would turn over a little slow and gain speed over about 8 seconds - then start. Upon starting if you listened really close, you could hear what sounded like the starter hanging up for a second or two (old school bendix noise). Also, when car was idling, depressing the clutch to put car in gear would also change pitch of engine (as though it were under a load - dropping rpms noticably.) Again, this was an exception, but wanted to add it since I checked all other avenues first (Relay 109, starter, static and VAG-Com Timing, battery load test, alternator output.....) Just something to keep in mind if all else has checked out.

After the replacement of clutch assembly, car starts instantaneous hot or cold.

And even though it was a lot of pre checks and post checks, there is a piece of mind knowing all of the other items are in good shape.

Just for the record, this was on a 1999 Beetle TDI with approx. 93,000 city miles...
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Old August 3rd, 2003, 06:56   #5
runonbeer
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Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Austin, TX
Fuel Economy: amazing/excellent/still pretty good
Default TDI Club help! Why is my car hard starting?

Well, if you want to come back up here, I got a compression tester we can play with.
that might tell us either that the dealer screwed somthing up when they put your head on or that your starter isnt' turning fast enough

Club,
can you get cranking RPMs off of vag com?
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Old August 5th, 2003, 10:22   #6
runonbeer
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Default TDI Club help! Why is my car hard starting?

el bompa
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Old August 8th, 2003, 08:02   #7
aherold
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Default TDI Club help! Why is my car hard starting?

runonbeer, i think i'll take you up on that offer the first time my car won't start. right now it's just annoying more than anything. have you ever replaced a starter before? i was just thinking of getting a rebuilt one when the time comes.
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Old August 8th, 2003, 08:09   #8
POWERSTROKE
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Location: Staten Island (The Dump)
TDI(s): 2002 Golf
Default TDI Club help! Why is my car hard starting?

Check injection timing with VAG-COM. Make sure it is in the middle to the high part of the graph.
http://www.colesgazette.com/tditiming2.jpg
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Old August 8th, 2003, 21:24   #9
edpipeline
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Coquitlam, BC
Fuel Economy: 1000 kms. per fill
Default TDI Club help! Why is my car hard starting?

Duh, that is pretty interesting information. I have had the warm starting problem for about 2 years, but in spite of the starter making noisy protests and the usual long wait to start (I'm a courier who starts my car many times a day) the car keeps starting. Your post is the first one I can remember that associates the clutch with the warm-starting problem.
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Old August 9th, 2003, 07:14   #10
concours
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Default TDI Club help! Why is my car hard starting?

Be very cautious about "rebuilt" starters. I've seen so many commercially rebuilt, big name stuff that was merely cleaned and new brushes installed. Same old bearings, etc. If there is any way possible, have yours redone at a place you can trust. Find out what they do to it.
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Old August 9th, 2003, 07:22   #11
duh
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Default TDI Club help! Why is my car hard starting?

Hi edpipeline,
I too was amazed that the problem turned out to be what it was considering the other alternatives sounded a bit more logical. Again, my case was not the norm but after looking at the construction of the flywheel, both in the flesh and from FlyTDI Guy's pics, it makes sense.
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Old August 11th, 2003, 08:27   #12
bowlerman
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Location: medford, NJ
Default TDI Club help! Why is my car hard starting?

well guys, i have the answer you have been waiting for!!! my aunt brought her passat in for a warm starting problem and they replaced the ECT!!! you know why? they said its a new feature and i think it sucks but anyway if ect thinks car is too hot it wont allow the car to start but sometimes wont spring a code!. replace ect and see what happens!!!
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Old August 11th, 2003, 08:33   #13
str8edg
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Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Estero FLORIDA
Default TDI Club help! Why is my car hard starting?

Hmmm, has anyone heard about replacing the ECT before??? I'm having the same problem and no codes are being thrown, but rather embarrassing. How much is an ECT?

Thanks
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Old August 11th, 2003, 08:41   #14
weedeater
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Location: Reston, VA
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Default TDI Club help! Why is my car hard starting?

Quote:
str8edg Jetter said:
Hmmm, has anyone heard about replacing the ECT before???
Thanks
Sure, but not for this. Maybe it is a peculiarity of Passat ECUs. I've never seen it mentioned anywhere else.

Now, did this fix your Aunt's starting problem?
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Old August 11th, 2003, 09:21   #15
runonbeer
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Default TDI Club help! Why is my car hard starting?

I have replaced a starter, on my '73 bus, when the engine was on the ground.

Well at any rate, I'm sure its all just nuts and bolts. Not too difficult. Whenever you see fit. My hands and tools are at your disposal.
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