www.tdiclub.com

Economy - Longevity - Performance
The #1 Source of TDI Information on the Web!
Forums Articles Links Meets
Orders TDI Club Cards TDIFest 2016 Gone, but not forgotten VAG-Com List Unit Conversions TDIClub Chat Thank You




Go Back   TDIClub Forums > TDI Model Specific Discussions Areas > VW MKIV-A4 TDIs (VE and PD)

VW MKIV-A4 TDIs (VE and PD) This is a general discussion about A4/MkIV Jetta (99.5-~2005), Golf(99.5-2006), and New Beetle(98-2006). Both VE and PD engines are covered here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old April 1st, 2003, 13:54   #1
cosmic
Veteran Member
 
cosmic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: KY, USA
Fuel Economy: 53/42/38
Default Motive brake fluid change (caution 3MB of pics)

Hello all,

I finally got around to doing my brake fluid change this weekend. All in all, the job was pretty easy. Removing the wheels and getting the jetta up on jack stands took a good portion of my time. I understand that this may not be necessary, but I wanted to poke around and inspect everything.

I used a motive power bleeder to do the change. I confirmed dieseldorf's findings that this can be done without putting fluid in the bleeder. I just used a turkey baster to remove as much of the old fluid as possible from the the fluid resevoir, and then filled it with the new ATE blue fluid. My old fluid was amber.

This was the first time I have done a fluid change. Its not really that hard (I did it!) and needs to be done every two years.

My blow by blow of what was done is as follows:
1) Remove wheels and get car up on jack stands at all four corners.
2) Remove cap and sensor on fluid resevoir.
3) Use baster to remove fluid from resevoir.
4) Attach power bleeder to the fluid resevoir and pressurize it. (Do not exceed 14.5 psi! I went for about 10)
5)Connect drip tube to the right rear bleed valve and/or receptacle.
6) Open bleed valve with 11mm wrench and bleed till only new fluid is present in the fluid stream
(Bear in mind you need to keep an eye on the fluid level in the resevoir as well, insuring it does not go blow the MIN marking)
7) Close valve and then repeat on the LR, RF, LF wheels, then on the clutch, watching the fluid level at the resevoir.
(If refilling, depressurize by unscrewing the cap on the bleeder, NOT on the resevoir cap!)

Right rear brakes (arrows point to the bleeder screws)


Left rear brakes (notice the pads are toasted!)


Right front brakes


Left front brakes


Clutch bleed screw (yellow arrow points to bleed screw)



Motive bleeder connected to resevoir


View of resevoir (NOTE the markings for min and max are to the right of the text and obscured in this pic)


Ready to bleed the right rear


Bleeding out the amber fluid (note the rust bits which I think came from the screw area as they were only present after opening it up)



Only blue fluid now...


Bleeding left rear, amber fluid coming out...


Blue fluid begins to show as a fine line in the center of the stream


Blue fluid is now about half the stream



So that is it. I found I had to refill the resevoir after each bleed to keep the level where it needed to be.

I also found that my rear brakes are toasted, but the fronts are fine. I am suspecting the emergency brake cable tension might be to blame. Any other ideas?

Test driving proved the job successful. The brakes seem more responsive, but who knows how much of that assessment is just my mind telling me I did a good job.
cosmic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 1st, 2003, 14:16   #2
GeWilli
Veteran Member
 
GeWilli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: lost to new england
Fuel Economy: you keep track?
Default Motive brake fluid change (caution 3MB of pics)

Hey can I make this a PDF article? For my page and maybe for freds? (and for everyone to download?)

Nice write up and pictures . . . using Blue fluid definately makes it easier!
GeWilli is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 1st, 2003, 14:23   #3
VelvetFoot
Veteran Member
 
VelvetFoot's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Sand Lake, NY
Default Motive brake fluid change (caution 3MB of pics)

Deleted because I didn't read post closely enough.
VelvetFoot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 1st, 2003, 15:11   #4
DeafBug
Gone but Never Forgotten: Requiescat In Pace
 
DeafBug's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Twin Cities in MN
TDI(s): 2001 NB
Fuel Economy: numbers are good
Default Motive brake fluid change (caution 3MB of pics)

Nice write up. I suppose the instructions are similar to any vehicle? I need to do my wife's Camry.

How did you get to keep the floor so clean?
DeafBug is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 1st, 2003, 15:18   #5
twojettas
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: MN
Default Motive brake fluid change (caution 3MB of pics)

Quote:
Hey can I make this a PDF article? For my page and maybe for freds? (and for everyone to download?)

Here is the post in .pdf format. Brake Fluid Change .pdf

Thanks cosmic for the great post! I will probably use it this weekend. I converted it to pdf for you and others.

Brandon
twojettas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 1st, 2003, 15:44   #6
dieseldorf
top post dawg
 
dieseldorf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: MA
Default Motive brake fluid change (caution 3MB of pics)

Quote:
I also found that my rear brakes are toasted, but the fronts are fine. I am suspecting the emergency brake cable tension might be to blame. Any other ideas?

Test driving proved the job successful. The brakes seem more responsive, but who knows how much of that assessment is just my mind telling me I did a good job.
Cosmic, nice camera work.

I pressurized to 18 psi the last time I did a MkIV and had good luck with that.

The rear pads in these cars are very soft (there is a TSB on rear brake problems) so I doubt there is anything abnormal going on. How many miles on your car?

I think the bleeding process does produce a firmer pedal - - it may not be your imagination.

Good job

<font color="red"> Oh, one other item: MOGolf reports that 2001.5 cars and newer use a non-traditional pattern meaning it is reverse of the pattern most of us are accustomed to. Start at the nearest (clutch) and finish at the farthest point (RR).</font>
dieseldorf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 1st, 2003, 15:45   #7
golfstream
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Balmer, Hon
Fuel Economy: 55, 49, 45
Default Motive brake fluid change (caution 3MB of pics)

cosmic,

Good job! Your rear pads are toast because they're softer, smaller, and work harder than most rear brakes. There is probably nothing wrong with your parking brake. For better or worse, VW designed them that way.

Now, swap those pads out with new ones before your rotors are ruined. It's another easy job as long as you have the caliper wind-back tool.

-Mel
golfstream is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 1st, 2003, 18:48   #8
Curious Chris
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Minneapolis MN
Fuel Economy: 47/42/38
Default Motive brake fluid change (caution 3MB of pics)

Very nice post. I have printed off the .pdf file for next spring on my car.

Now to be just a little anal: what about the brake fluid left in the caliper? Seems somebody spoke of fully compressing the pistons to remove the fluid.
Curious Chris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 2nd, 2003, 07:25   #9
GeWilli
Veteran Member
 
GeWilli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: lost to new england
Fuel Economy: you keep track?
Default Motive brake fluid change (caution 3MB of pics)

Quote:
Oh, one other item: MOGolf reports that 2001.5 cars and newer get use a non-traditional pattern meaning it is reverse of the pattern most of us are accustomed to. Start at the nearest (clutch) and finish at the farthest point (RR).
Different schools of thought have this on all cars. I'm thinking it doesn't really matter much. But it might matter a little how the hydraulic lines are routed. . . but as long as you get clean clear/blue fluid out the bleeders then you've done it right. . . .

thanks twojetta's saves me a touch of time . . . i'll post that link up on my page assuming it's okay? If not lemme know and I'll pull it.
GeWilli is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 2nd, 2003, 08:22   #10
cosmic
Veteran Member
 
cosmic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: KY, USA
Fuel Economy: 53/42/38
Default Motive brake fluid change (caution 3MB of pics)

Thanks for the responses. I am happy to give something back.

GeWilli - Certainly Geoff you can make it into a pdf, although it looks like twojettas beat ya to it. I finally used your ventectomy pics last night, to yank my vent button.

Dieseldorf - I noted that Bentleys said to NOT exceed 14.5 psi (1 bar) so I stuck to that rule. Things might work a bit faster with higher pressure, but it was a nice day. Thanks for the info on the rear brakes being softer. There are just under 45K miles on the car. Regarding the pattern, once again, bentleys said RR,LR,RF,LF. I actually ended up doing RR,LR,LF,RF then clutch. I guess I just got going around the car... My Jetta is an early 2001.

Gulfstream - new pads and rotors for the rear are on the way from Impex. I was already grinding on the rotors just a hair, and Impex has rear rotors on sale, 2 for $40.

Thanks to all and feel free to use the info and these pics as you please.


cosmic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 2nd, 2003, 08:34   #11
dieseldorf
top post dawg
 
dieseldorf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: MA
Default Motive brake fluid change (caution 3MB of pics)

cosmic, for the sake of everyones' comprehension, perhaps you can add an explanation about alternating the brake fluids every other year. Some may not grasp that.

................


<font color="red"> Brake fluid loves water:</font>



"Brake fluid is hygroscopic, which means, it absorbs water over time. Under extreme loads, steam bubbles form in the brake system, which causes the brake pedal to go to the floor when braking. The threat of brake failure is very real. Only regular replacement with, say, Original ATE brake fluid will ensure that the brake system is fully functional in all driving situations."

"ATE Super Blue Racing and ATE TYP 200 are the same brake fluid in two different colors (blue and amber, respectively). BMW recommends this brake fluid for their street cars because it, like Castrol LMA, absorbs moisture very slowly. The advantage over LMA is that ATE has a much better wet boiling point. You can put this stuff in your car and forget about it for a long time. An excellent choice for a weekend track car which also sees regular street duty."
dieseldorf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 2nd, 2003, 09:06   #12
TDI-NEVER-DIE
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: FL-capital of suicide driving
TDI(s): bora
Fuel Economy: 70
Default Motive brake fluid change (caution 3MB of pics)

This is a very nice thread.. i just did mine a few months ago and i used the OEM amber stuff... i guess in 2 years i'll go with blue.. this is a very nice how to with pics..
thanks for sharing
TDI-NEVER-DIE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 2nd, 2003, 10:28   #13
MITBeta
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Boston's Metro South-West
Default Motive brake fluid change (caution 3MB of pics)

Quote:
1) Remove wheels and get car up on jack stands at all four corners.
I bled my brakes this weekend (using Motive) and didn't need to remove the wheels. For the fronts, I turned the wheels full right and then full left. The rears can easily be reached by laying on the ground.

This could save someone a little time and effort.

Nice pics (I took some too, which I'll get around to posting eventually) and write up...
MITBeta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 2nd, 2003, 19:08   #14
MITBeta
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Boston's Metro South-West
Default Motive brake fluid change (caution 3MB of pics)

Here's a couple of photos to augment those above, but showing the job done with the wheels on:

Left front:


Rear right:


Rear left:

MITBeta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 3rd, 2003, 06:09   #15
GeWilli
Veteran Member
 
GeWilli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: lost to new england
Fuel Economy: you keep track?
Default Motive brake fluid change (caution 3MB of pics)

MITBeta,

thats how I did our Volvo's brakes (bleeding). Backed the rear wheels up on a set of rhino ramps to get easier access (that volvo sits lower/as low as the Golf). However I like the idea of taking the tires off . . . gives you a good chance to clean the rims and to inspect the brake condition. And if ya wanna rotate the tires at the same time . . .

I included a link to this page below the PDF created here:
http://www.cst.cmich.edu/users/willi1gl/TDIpage.htm
So that maybe folks will check this out for the alternatives and all.

One question cosmic. Did you put the new brake fluid INSIDE the Motive bleeder or did you use the motive bleeder to push air into the brake fluid resevoir?


GeWilli is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 22:26.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright - TDIClub Online LTD - 2017
Contact Us | Privacy Statement | Forum Rules | Disclaimer
TDIClub Online Ltd (TDIClub.com) is not affiliated with the VWoA or VWAG and is supported by contributions from viewers like you.
1996 - 2017, All Rights Reserved
Page generated in 0.17406 seconds with 9 queries
[Output: 128.28 Kb. compressed to 107.89 Kb. by saving 20.39 Kb. (15.90%)]