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Old May 27th, 2020, 08:05   #1
coh
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Location: Rochester, NY, USA
Fuel Economy: ~48 mpg
Default Car stalled, won't start

Hey all,


Been a while since I've been on the forum but I'm having a problem with my 2002 Golf TDI. I took it to a local mechanic on Monday evening for some brake work. It seemed to drive fine on the way over, though I thought it perhaps felt a bit sluggish. Hasn't been driven much over the past couple of months due to the shutdown, stay at home, etc.


Anyway, the mechanic started it up, got it into the shop and did the brake work. Then he says he started it up to go on a test drive, but before he could the car "gave a big puff of black smoke" and stalled. Now he cannot restart it - engine cranks but never starts.


One problem is, the guy doesn't work on diesel engines, so if I can't troubleshoot it I'm going to have to have it towed to another mechanic for that (probably the dealer shudder). Another is that I haven't been able to get over there so I'm only able to go on what he is telling me. I've asked him to check if the glowplug light comes on when he turns the key but haven't heard back yet.


I've browsed the forum and come up with a number of possibilities...relay 109 (would that kind of failure cause the black smoke?), anti-shudder valve (can that cause stalling? I know it can be a cause of inability to start). Then there are other more complex problems such as fuel pump.


He said there wasn't any unusual noise so I'm guessing it's not the turbo. Any suggestions? I'm going to try to get over there today or tomorrow.


BTW, car is rather low mileage for its age (between 120-150k), has had regular oil changes, timing belt changed, etc. One thing that has not been done is EGR/manifold cleaning and fuel filter is probably overdue for replacement.


Chris
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Old May 27th, 2020, 08:20   #2
Mongler98
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Oh boy. Check timing marks and verify belt has not jumped or missing teeth.
I would not crank it other than by hand at the crank until you can verify that the valves are in time. Timing belt is only good for like 5 years although you can get more life from them.
Any chance you can take it to a proper diesel mechanic? We have a limits of trusted mechanics I suggest you have it towed to a place that can solve this issue. Tow at the shops expense.
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Old May 27th, 2020, 09:45   #3
coh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mongler98 View Post
Oh boy. Check timing marks and verify belt has not jumped or missing teeth.
I would not crank it other than by hand at the crank until you can verify that the valves are in time. Timing belt is only good for like 5 years although you can get more life from them.
Any chance you can take it to a proper diesel mechanic? We have a limits of trusted mechanics I suggest you have it towed to a place that can solve this issue. Tow at the shops expense.

Too late for that. It didn't happen in my possession so I have no idea how many times he tried to start it. I'm setting up towing right now.


Timing belt was replaced more than 5 years ago though I'd have to check my records to see exactly when. Hopefully it's not that. Glowplug light was coming on so doesn't appear to be a 109 issue.
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Old May 27th, 2020, 10:06   #4
Mongler98
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The puff of black smoke is the only reason I suspect timing. Hope it gets sorted.
Maybe this will be a good silver lining of finding a good diesel mechanic in your area
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Old May 27th, 2020, 10:06   #5
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yeah sounds like jumped timing to me as well. And without stating the obvious , you cant trust whatever this inexperienced mechanic tells you.
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Old May 27th, 2020, 10:16   #6
Vince Waldon
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There are a ton of things it could be besides skipped timing... no way to know until you get it to a mechanic that has relevant diesel experience, or start to look into it yourself directly and in person.

Air/fuel/timing/compression. Turbo doesn't come into play till after the engine is running so unlikely the cause of a no-start. Glow plug light on/off is a good indicator for relay 109's health... car won't need glowplugs themselves to start though.
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Old May 27th, 2020, 10:29   #7
eddieleephd
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My first are verify timing because you want to be sure.
Relay 109 and the crank sensor that so many seem to have going out these days...

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Old May 27th, 2020, 11:37   #8
BobnOH
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Check if any of the big pipes have come loose. Handy job for a lift, remove lower engine cover.
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Old May 27th, 2020, 11:46   #9
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Anti-shutter valve dogbone broken allowing flapper to remain closed maybe?
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Old May 27th, 2020, 12:05   #10
coh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miningman View Post
yeah sounds like jumped timing to me as well. And without stating the obvious , you cant trust whatever this inexperienced mechanic tells you.
He's not inexperienced, but he does not work on diesel engines (I use him for brakes mainly). Well, I guess you could say he is inexperienced when it comes to diesel engines but he should still be able to report effectively "what happened" even if he has no idea why.


Anyway, it's on the way to the dealer as there are no other TDI gurus within a reasonable distance. Wish me luck. Will report back when I know something. And thanks for all the suggestions, if it happened in my possession I would have looked things over and checked on the anti-shudder valve, pipes, timing belt, etc.
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Old May 27th, 2020, 12:13   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coh View Post
Anyway, it's on the way to the dealer.
Good luck!
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Old May 27th, 2020, 12:39   #12
coh
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Quote:
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Good luck!

I don't have a good feeling about it but maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised. I've used the dealer for other work in the past but never anything this potentially serious.
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Old May 27th, 2020, 14:33   #13
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Well don't let them tell you something crazy. Ask about the things we mentioned before they do any work.

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Old May 27th, 2020, 15:39   #14
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No chance it was scanned for codes before it went to the dealer?
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Old May 27th, 2020, 17:48   #15
1.9ZOOK
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Whenever I stall my ALH, I have to pull the 109, put it back in and it starts right up.
But it never smokes so something else is going on as mentioned.
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