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Old October 26th, 2019, 05:23   #1
dervdave
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Default Diesel Innovation

https://techxplore.com/news/2019-10-diesel-humble.html
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Old October 27th, 2019, 12:48   #2
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I sent Sandia National Labs and Paul Miles a letter asking about what it would take to make something like this to retrofit the dieselagte involved cars with this technology. The government should take some of the billions they collected in fines and pursue this. Huge PR and some environmental gain to be had here.
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Old October 27th, 2019, 13:24   #3
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The problem is that a majority of the world will no longer trust the operators to continue the nitrogen compound control process when no one is looking.
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Old October 27th, 2019, 15:05   #4
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What does that mean?
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Old October 27th, 2019, 15:34   #5
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Sounds promising. If it works out, the tech will appear in new vehicles, ships etc. quite awhile before any significant retrofits happen.
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Old October 28th, 2019, 21:30   #6
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Default Sandia Natl Labs develops a simple modification that greatly reduces soot emissions

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An engine innovation first conceived and tested by Sandia National Laboratories has attracted the attention of big business because of its potential to cost-effectively reduce emissions of soot and nitrogen oxides, encourage the use of renewable fuels, and maintain or improve engine performance.


Ducted fuel injection, developed by Charles Mueller at Sandia's Combustion Research Facility, is able to fine-tune the fuel-air mixture in an engine to the point of eliminating between 50 percent-100 percent of the soot depending on the engine's instantaneous speed and power level.
https://youtu.be/1dijtRUZeLw
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Old October 28th, 2019, 22:27   #7
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Looks good. Thanks for finding that!
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Old October 29th, 2019, 12:00   #8
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In a related potential technology advancement for the control of NOx emissions from diesel engines while reducing fuel consumption at the same time:

Eatonís Cylinder-Deactivation Technology Helps Commercial Vehicle OEMs Meet Upcoming Emissions Regulations
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Old October 29th, 2019, 12:30   #9
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I've been a proponent of cylinder deactivation for Diesels for a long time now, but the mechanisms for fuel savings and emissions benefits are different than for SI engines. As noted in the above article, the main benefit is by deactivating some cylinders, the remaining ones operate at relatively higher load; this much is in common with SI engines, but without an intake throttle, Diesels don't get the fuel economy increases of reduced pumping losses. Rather, the main benefit is that the EGT of the harder working firing cylinders is higher, therefore keeping aftertreatment systems at the temperatures needed for effective function. CDA by itself doesn't do too much for fuel economy, but small improvements can be realized when implemented with variable valve actuation/timing. Fewer DPF and SCR regens are other benefits.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread...92#post3505792
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Old October 29th, 2019, 13:17   #10
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Cylinder deactivation sounds way more complicated and involves more moving parts than the ducted fuel injection, which seems to have no moving parts and is fairly simple once developed and installed. There were some gas engines a ways back that did this (CDA) and IIRC they suffered a miserable end.
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Old November 7th, 2019, 05:53   #11
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Don't write CDA off so quickly. Just because it failed earlier doesn't mean that improved implementation won't realize more of the theoretical gains. There are lots of things that didn't work so well the first time it was tried, but later efforts worked very well.

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Old November 7th, 2019, 13:24   #12
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Wow, the ducted fuel injection principles are awesome. Just a simple physical item placed around the injector more or less (and the injector itself I'm sure is altered to have a spray pattern that better lines up with the ducts).

The challenge with retrofits is there typically is very minimal room to anything else in the combustion chamber as it is. Valve reliefs are machined into the top of pistons because if they weren't, pistons would hammer the valves while the valves are closed... I found this out the hard way when I was attempting to figure out what was going on with this odd merging of two engines. Someone put a BEW bottom half with an ALH top half. BEW pistons do not have valve reliefs machined into them because the valves in the BEW head are designed to recess into the head a little. ALH and non-BEW PD heads have the valves protrude ever so slightly from the bottom of the head.

That engine was in fact hitting the valves with the valves closed... That's how little room there is.

Now, there's a smidge more room in commonrails with the wider combustion bowl and compression down to 16:1 instead of 18 or 19.5:1, but still, that ducting would have to almost be partly recessed back up into the head a little and require a different injector who's tip might not protrude into as far into the chamber as they currently do for many road-going diesels.

Where there's a will, there's a way I'm sure.

I'm not too worried about retrofits, but always good to see signs of relatively simple solutions that could kick diesel technology to the next level and maybe even simplify emissions aftertreatment systems.

Much more integrated-into-the-casting designs will eventually result, I'm sure. Just looking at the video of the flame fronts and seeing the chart of normal diesels, A/F ratio and the curve between soot and NOx generation and the much lower and nearly flat line of the ducted setup, hugely, hugely impressive difference this makes, especially for how simple a device it appears to be.

I suspect this may also have a very noticeable increase in efficiency too. I would not be surprised to see astounding differences in how little fuel a diesel uses with such a system.

I will be very, very curious to see the first OEM that goes into production with this and see how well it performs not only in terms of emissions, but power and economy as well.
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Old November 7th, 2019, 13:25   #13
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Oh yeah, there's a video here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dijtRUZeLw
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Old November 7th, 2019, 13:36   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt-98AHU View Post
Wow, the ducted fuel injection principles are awesome. Just a simple physical item placed around the injector more or less (and the injector itself I'm sure is altered to have a spray pattern that better lines up with the ducts).
The challenge with retrofits is there typically is very minimal room to anything else in the combustion chamber as it is. Valve reliefs are machined into the top of pistons because if they weren't, pistons would hammer the valves while the valves are closed... I found this out the hard way when I was attempting to figure out what was going on with this odd merging of two engines. Someone put a BEW bottom half with an ALH top half. BEW pistons do not have valve reliefs machined into them because the valves in the BEW head are designed to recess into the head a little. ALH and non-BEW PD heads have the valves protrude ever so slightly from the bottom of the head.
That engine was in fact hitting the valves with the valves closed... That's how little room there is.
Now, there's a smidge more room in commonrails with the wider combustion bowl and compression down to 16:1 instead of 18 or 19.5:1, but still, that ducting would have to almost be partly recessed back up into the head a little and require a different injector who's tip might not protrude into as far into the chamber as they currently do for many road-going diesels.
Where there's a will, there's a way I'm sure.
I'm not too worried about retrofits, but always good to see signs of relatively simple solutions that could kick diesel technology to the next level and maybe even simplify emissions aftertreatment systems.
Much more integrated-into-the-casting designs will eventually result, I'm sure. Just looking at the video of the flame fronts and seeing the chart of normal diesels, A/F ratio and the curve between soot and NOx generation and the much lower and nearly flat line of the ducted setup, hugely, hugely impressive difference this makes, especially for how simple a device it appears to be.
I suspect this may also have a very noticeable increase in efficiency too. I would not be surprised to see astounding differences in how little fuel a diesel uses with such a system.
I will be very, very curious to see the first OEM that goes into production with this and see how well it performs not only in terms of emissions, but power and economy as well.
Just imagine no more regens and getting rid of most of the exhaust after treatment system. A huge cost savings on these cars and lower emissions more than likely plus a boost in power maybe. Sounds like a win/win. Only problem is we will probably never see it.
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Old November 8th, 2019, 13:40   #15
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It's rather unlikely that a modification like this would reduce regulated emissions enough to eliminate aftertreatment, but it can give the aftertreatment an easier job.

Now, where to put such a physical gadget into an automotive-scale cylinder head surrounded by valves and glow plug ... I have my doubts. Still, even if this only works on engines the scale of locomotives or ocean-going vessels, it's a good thing.
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