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TDI Conversions Discussions on converting non TDIs into TDIS. More general items can be answered better in other sections. This is ideal for issues that don't have an overlap and are very special to swaping engines.

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Old March 8th, 2018, 04:38   #1
CommieGIR
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Default Here Be Madness: Audi 5000q TD Conversion

Like most of my projects, this one was also conceived in madness.

I normally only build Audi Turbo gas motors but my true passion is TD/TDIs, and I still have my Mk3 TDI ALH from days of yore, but recently I picked up an Audi 5000 Quattro Avant for cheap, and decided I wanted to use it as a tow vehicle for our rally car.

So began the search for a suitable motor. I had initially settled on the 2.5l TDI from a EU C6, but prices were much too high, so I finally found a VW AAB 2.4D that comes in the Transporters/Audi 100s. As a bonus, these share the same bore/stroke as the 1.9l ALH/AHU/AAZ motors found more commonly within the US, and the AAB will accept the 2.5l TDI head, so a TDI converison down the road is completely possible.

For now, the plan is to Turbocharge (lightly) the 2.4D using 10vT Audi parts (they share the same manifold designs and block design). The engine is coming with a 5 cylinder Turbo Injection Pump as well.

This is an in progress, the down payment has been placed on the motor, and it'll ship from Canada sometime next week.



Of course, the question is how bad will the gas Quattro transmission be, and the answer is: Not that bad. Highway cruising at 80 is about 3000 RPMs on the gas motor, so the Diesel should happily cruise at 80 (goal is power, not speed), and right now the stock 10vT gas motor doesn't rev above 4000 RPMs so its been a good way to get a feel for the limits of what a diesel will do with the transmission. It won't be the fastest, but it'll do.

Last edited by CommieGIR; March 8th, 2018 at 04:41.
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Old March 11th, 2018, 17:02   #2
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So, here's the parts list for the Turbodiesel Build:

VW AAB with TD Injection Pump
Mercedes 300SD KKK K24
Stock 10vT Exhhaust Manifold
Stock 10vT Intercooler
Pyrometer

The bolt pattern on the AAB is the same as the 10vT block, so the mounts will fight right on without issue, and shares the same bolt pattern. I can delete the Vacuum pump on the AAB since my Wagon has the Hydroboost brakes and power steering, so that's some weight off the engine.

Biggest initial bottleneck is boost, we gotta keep it low until we get the TDI parts together. 7-10 PSI max until we get the TDI pistons and head.
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Old March 11th, 2018, 18:28   #3
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Before you pay to ship that engine down be sure the bolt holes for the engine mount brackets still exist...the Eurovan was transverse and mounted differently then the longitudinal designs and as such the unused bolt holes were prone to rusting out.
Cool idea...the transmission gearing might even be a bit too high for the diesel-the AAB was working at 3500-4000 rpms in vans everyday (60-75mph). It was run at high rpm. Going with turbo trans might lug it and not provide enough usable power, a non turbo trans might be a better option (3000 at 60mph). I owned all the 5000's, (S FWD, S quattro and CD quattro) completely different cars even though they were the same...
I want to do my last remaining quattro to tdi, a 1986 4000.
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Old March 11th, 2018, 18:36   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clacker View Post
Before you pay to ship that engine down be sure the bolt holes for the engine mount brackets still exist...the Eurovan was transverse and mounted differently then the longitudinal designs and as such the unused bolt holes were prone to rusting out.
Cool idea...the transmission gearing might even be a bit too high for the diesel-the AAB was working at 3500-4000 rpms in vans everyday (60-75mph). It was run at high rpm. Going with turbo trans might lug it and not provide enough usable power, a non turbo trans might be a better option (3000 at 60mph). I owned all the 5000's, (S FWD, S quattro and CD quattro) completely different cars even though they were the same...
I want to do my last remaining quattro to tdi, a 1986 4000.
Bolt holes are still good, was going to tap and clean anyways, but all the mount holes are in the right spot for the 10vT mounts, so that's why the AAB was the choice.

That's a good note on the transmission. Yeah, the 10vT Gas is pulling 3500 at 80, which was kinda where I wanted it for a diesel conversion, but the 5000q final drive is lower as well (3.85) versus the 4000q (4.11)

I have two gas 4000q, a 20vT and a 10vT. And a 90q 20vT

Last edited by CommieGIR; March 11th, 2018 at 18:45.
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Old March 15th, 2018, 05:39   #5
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Picked up 4 AHU TDI Pistons and rods, and 5 TDI injectors, so we're well under way.

I may end up trying a Gasoline K26 Turbocharger, as they were built to boost at higher RPMs, so should give good low end boost on a diesel with a much higher exhaust gas flow. Largely experimental.
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Old March 15th, 2018, 07:58   #6
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Added bonus photos: Here's a comparison of the 2.5l TDI head and the 2.4D block:



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Old March 15th, 2018, 07:58   #7
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Also brings up something to keep in mind: Gotta make sure I get a piston to match the correct Intake/Exhaust valve arrangement
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Old March 20th, 2018, 11:19   #8
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Coming from Rob up in the White North:

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Old April 3rd, 2018, 14:10   #9
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Pending weather, transport guy will be heading to Sarnia next Monday.

Ordered headgaskets from Canada, Germany, and Latvia.

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Old April 4th, 2018, 14:56   #10
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Hmmm...I've been contemplating converting my EV over to a four cylinder TDI, but the AAB would be a nice candidate for a much easier swap. How difficult was the five cyl. TDI head to source? Do you know whether the TD pump has a 17mm or 20mm shaft?

I know of a guy in BC who converted an Audi 2.0L TD engine to TDI using Renault Cleo pistons.
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Old April 5th, 2018, 09:47   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeitgeist View Post
Hmmm...I've been contemplating converting my EV over to a four cylinder TDI, but the AAB would be a nice candidate for a much easier swap. How difficult was the five cyl. TDI head to source? Do you know whether the TD pump has a 17mm or 20mm shaft?

I know of a guy in BC who converted an Audi 2.0L TD engine to TDI using Renault Cleo pistons.
In this case, I'm using an Audi AEL 2.5l TDI head, because it utilizes the same block style and layout as the 2.4D head.

They are available, but have to be ordered overseas or through Rob, the advantage being you can use the injectors and pistons/rods from a 1.9l TDI that is widely available in the Americas. The AAB has the same rod journal size as the 1.9l as well, so the conn rods should be a direct fit.

Injection pump wise, that's a toss up, I'll know more when the engines arrive, but either way I can either machine the bracket or swap the bracket from another vehicle.



Gear ratios and shift map with the stock 016 gas transmission. Not bad at all. Peak HP is 3200 and redline is about 4500.

Last edited by CommieGIR; April 5th, 2018 at 09:51.
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Old April 5th, 2018, 10:26   #12
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The more I thought about it, I realized that because my EV is CAN-bus, I'll need to go E-TDI, so I'm probably better off just finding a complete AEL and installing it with all the AAB or gas fiver bits n' pieces.

I'll be following your thread no matter, as I really like learning more about these engines.
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Old April 5th, 2018, 10:48   #13
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Yeah, the eTDI's need a Crank Position Sensor, or you could cut out the ECU and go mTDI. Up to you, of course.
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Old April 12th, 2018, 14:00   #14
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Update: Guy is on his way to Canada to pick up the motors.

Another Update: the 5th gear from my old Coupe GT transmission is really tall, and swaps into the 016. No need to a TDI transmission!
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Old April 23rd, 2018, 19:22   #15
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Motors arrived!





Have enough parts to build 3
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