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TDI Power Enhancements Discussions about increasing the power of your TDI engine. i.e. chips, injectors, powerboxes, clutches, etc. Handling, suspensions, wheels, type discussion should be put into the "Upgrades (non TDI Engine related)" forum. Non TDI vehicle related postings will be moved or removed. Please note the Performance Disclaimer.

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Old November 8th, 2018, 23:50   #1
Kerma_tuned
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Default Alh 10mm vs 11mm ip

Right now im sitting at my most efficient peak boost(25psi) for my turbo(vnt17plus[17/52])

I'm still running the stock 10mm injection pump and it puts out a little bit of smoke but doesn't cloud out the sun or anything. So from my understanding there is more fuel than what can be burnt so will a 11mm injection pump bump my numbers on a dyno sheet,or make them more consistent?

Looking to educate myself a little so the more detail the better. Thanks!
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Old November 9th, 2018, 00:05   #2
Yucca
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You just dont need 11mm pump with 17/22.
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Old November 9th, 2018, 06:56   #3
Yourbuddysatin
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An 11mm pump will be more efficient than the 10. The more fuel you try to push thru the stock 10mm the hotter it gets. The 11mm is a better choice just for the cooler fueling. There is a lot more room for power with an 11mm also.
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Old November 9th, 2018, 09:05   #4
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"I have an excess of fuel, will more fuel make more power?"

probably a little, but you're going to learn why little vane turbos don't like high EGTs
buy bigger nozzles first, they're cheaper than an 11mm pump
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Old November 9th, 2018, 12:05   #5
Kerma_tuned
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [486] View Post
"I have an excess of fuel, will more fuel make more power?"

probably a little, but you're going to learn why little vane turbos don't like high EGTs
buy bigger nozzles first, they're cheaper than an 11mm pump
I have race 520's set up😉 i just don't know what pressure difference there is, if one or the other atomizes better or has better fueling through the rpm range. I'm aware that more fuel while there is already unburned fuel won't do anything but greatly decrease efficiency and give minuscule power increases at most, thanks
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Old November 9th, 2018, 12:58   #6
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The 11mm pump is supposed to have a higher line pressure, that's why I run one with my 1019s and an S7 turbo

Has anyone looked into adding a fuel cooler like the 02 autos have? It's on the passenger side after the front frame rails open up.

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Old November 9th, 2018, 17:33   #7
eddieleephd
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The 11mm pump is an upgrade, however, you would get more benefit from a lift pump for the expense.
Both the 10 mm and 11 mm pumps are working harder than they could. They are designed to pull the fuel from the tank and inject it into the cylinder. Both parts of this requires energy, simply reducing the needed energy for the pump to draw the fuel from the tank slowed it to push more full through the nozzles.

Plus it cools your pump more.
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Last edited by eddieleephd; November 9th, 2018 at 18:05.
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Old November 9th, 2018, 17:36   #8
Kerma_tuned
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Whats lift pump works with alh's? Any how too's for an install?
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Old November 9th, 2018, 22:13   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kerma_tuned View Post
Whats lift pump works with alh's? Any how too's for an install?
Tons of how to's

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Old November 9th, 2018, 22:17   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eddieleephd View Post
The 11mm pump is an upgrade, however, you would get more benefit from a lift pump for the expense.
Both the 10 mm and 11 mm pumps are working harder than they could. They are designed to pull the fuel from the tank and inject it into the cylinder. Both parts of this requires energy, simply reducing the needed energy for the pump to draw the fuel from the tank slowed it to push more full through the nozzles.

Plus it cools your pump more.
I don't completely agree, the higher the pressure, the finer the mist and so on...and I buy used pumps super cheap and it's hit or miss, I've been mostly lucky...and probably easier to install a lift pump, it's on my to do list.

Yes, I hate messing with the timing belt and static timing

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Old November 10th, 2018, 05:18   #11
eddieleephd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WildChild80 View Post
I don't completely agree, the higher the pressure, the finer the mist and so on...and I buy used pumps super cheap and it's hit or miss, I've been mostly lucky...and probably easier to install a lift pump, it's on my to do list.

Yes, I hate messing with the timing belt and static timing

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I definitely agree that the benefits of the IP are a finer mist and more fuel.
I picked up a URO lift pump, from Carid if I remember correctly, for $80.

So my statement was cost benefit for all of the energy involved not that the IP doesn't increase the amount and spray pattern injected.

I run an 11mm pump, of course my unicorn began life as an automatic and my lift pump was installed because the draw tube went during the accident.

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Old November 10th, 2018, 05:28   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WildChild80 View Post
The 11mm pump is supposed to have a higher line pressure, that's why I run one with my 1019s and an S7 turbo

Has anyone looked into adding a fuel cooler like the 02 autos have? It's on the passenger side after the front frame rails open up.

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All mk4 Alh/Pd automatic tranny tdi’s, came from the factory with fuel coolers.


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17/56 turbo, RC ASV-5+ @ 28psi, 3 Bar Map, 11mm IP, PD Lift Pump, R520's, McNally boost/egt, Euro FIS full screen Cluster, PD 150 Intake/racepipe, PD 150 plastic T.I.P + R32 maf air mods, Kerma 2.5" Fmic, Kerma 3"T-B exhaust/resonator/ Aero turbine muffler, SBC stage 3 Endurance, GLi brakes F/R , GLi axles, H&R Bilstein sports cup kit.
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Old November 10th, 2018, 05:36   #13
eddieleephd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kerma_tuned View Post
Whats lift pump works with alh's? Any how too's for an install?
The BEW lift pump is used for the ALH. Some of the higher power TDI's have to have one to supply more fuel. Generally I see them for $200, however, I found mine for less than a hundred.
Need to run a circuit back to the tank and power it off the 109, or similarly powered relay.


Lift Pump
https://www.idparts.com/in-tank-lift...aa-p-1976.html

Wiring with plug
https://www.idparts.com/pd-in-tank-l...kit-p-911.html

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'02 1.8t Jetta Wagon Alh w/5spd swap, SB 21#SM DD, bew lift pump, 11mm IP, VNT17, Malone stage4 tune, Stealth pipe, BMW Cyclonic CCV filter, 2.5"cat back st. pipe,Vr6 brakes, 2" lift, Panzer, Bilstein HD, fill tube ectomy, soon to be Wuzetem p.520 PD_fuel_delivery TDI Search Plug release tool Howto terminal release tools VW/Audi
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Old November 10th, 2018, 07:05   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eddieleephd View Post
I definitely agree that the benefits of the IP are a finer mist and more fuel.
I picked up a URO lift pump, from Carid if I remember correctly, for $80.

So my statement was cost benefit for all of the energy involved not that the IP doesn't increase the amount and spray pattern injected.

I run an 11mm pump, of course my unicorn began life as an automatic and my lift pump was installed because the draw tube went during the accident.

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At the pull a parts, I've never paid more than 40 bux for a pump...I would love to buy a new pump some day but they're just obnoxiously expensive, maybe rebuilds of all the pumps I've acquired.

80 bux is a great price...where did you source the plug for the pump?

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Old November 10th, 2018, 07:35   #15
eddieleephd
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I swapped into a 1.8t so the wires and plug were already there. I linked the install kit above at IDparts, basic plug really easy to find at salvage yard.
I find what I needed and then search for the best price on the item. FCP Euro and Carid, are a couple I find good deals at. Metalman, Cascade, fixmyvw, and IDparts are all competent and get a lot of my business, however, if I can find the same part for a fraction of the cost I will. Especially when I save $100+ on a single part by URO. Gotta search though, and always look at shipping and when it arrives. ID, and the others are quicker, usually much quicker, and more knowledgeable about the parts needed. They usually have extremely competitive pricing, just that one occasion really.
OEM:
https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/aud...ag-1k0919050ab

URO:
https://www.amazon.com/URO-Parts-1J0.../dp/B01EIUN4CS

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'02 1.8t Jetta Wagon Alh w/5spd swap, SB 21#SM DD, bew lift pump, 11mm IP, VNT17, Malone stage4 tune, Stealth pipe, BMW Cyclonic CCV filter, 2.5"cat back st. pipe,Vr6 brakes, 2" lift, Panzer, Bilstein HD, fill tube ectomy, soon to be Wuzetem p.520 PD_fuel_delivery TDI Search Plug release tool Howto terminal release tools VW/Audi

Last edited by eddieleephd; November 10th, 2018 at 07:44.
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