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Go Back   TDIClub Forums > TDI Model Specific Discussions Areas > VW MKIV-A4 TDIs (VE and PD)

VW MKIV-A4 TDIs (VE and PD) This is a general discussion about A4/MkIV Jetta (99.5-~2005), Golf(99.5-2006), and New Beetle(98-2006). Both VE and PD engines are covered here.

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Old February 18th, 2018, 17:02   #1
Momentslater
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Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Fuel Economy: 43/54mpg
Default Died while driving, now will crank but no start.

I was going about 30kmh and I heard a clunk and lost throttle response, 5 seconds later the engine died out. I pulled over to the side of the road, it cranked slow for 2 seconds then cranked normally. Every time I try to crank it, it will start off cranking slow but will turn up to 400 rpm after a second or two.

No clue of a major failure on the road, it's not leaking oil anywhere. ASV is not stuck. Did I drop a valve? Timing belt is still intact.

I'm at a loss.
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Old February 18th, 2018, 17:38   #2
whitedog
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Timing belt may not be broken, but is it missing teeth? You need to turn the engine by hand looking at the teeth to know for sure.

Next thing to look at is the turbo. It may have grenaded, sending oil into the engine causing it to crank hard until the oil works out of the cylinders.
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Old February 18th, 2018, 17:55   #3
Momentslater
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I turned the engine over, no missing teeth on the TB. Should I be looking at a grenaded turbo?
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Old February 18th, 2018, 19:28   #4
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Well don't go buying one without checking it first! It's just a suggestion. I don't know what is wrong with your engine, I'm just throwing out some ideas. It's up to you to do the work to figure out what you need to buy.

You can pull the lower hose off of the intercooler and see if it's full of oil. If it is, then pull the hose off of the turbo and check for shaft play. If it isn't, pull the hose off the turbo and check for shaft play.
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Old February 18th, 2018, 20:01   #5
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You can take the boost hose off the EGR and check the ASV is open.
While its off try to start the car.
This will eliminate the turbo as a problem.
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Old February 19th, 2018, 09:45   #6
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I got it home and the fuel filter was empty, filled it up. Went back to being hard to crank, cracked open the injector lines and it was easy to crank again. I pulled cylinder 1 glowplug, easy to crank again. Still no start, got white smoke now.

Will verify timing later today, but I don't understand why it will crank easy without fuel.
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Old February 19th, 2018, 10:01   #7
BobnOH
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Well if no fuel gets to the combustion chamber, there would be less resistance.
Major clues- empty fuel filter, clunk
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Old February 19th, 2018, 10:07   #8
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I don't know how I didn't notice this, huge play in timing belt, wobbly cam gear, hole in the sheild that covers the camshaft. Camshaft seems to have stopped being a camshaft...
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Old February 19th, 2018, 11:05   #9
oilhammer
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Time to take the head off.
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Old February 19th, 2018, 13:03   #10
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Uh, what oilhammer said.

Stop playing with it, remove cylinder head (drain coolant first obviously.) If you're lucky it's just the head that was damaged (valves, cam in this case, etc) and sending the head out + replacing everything in the timing belt chain will be what's required to fix it. Inspect the pistons for obvious damage and CHECK PROTRUSION (to eliminate bent rod possibility.) DO NOT believe you got away with no valve damage - you almost-certainly didn't, and if you make that mistake you may get a catastrophic failure 10k miles or so down the road when a valve head breaks off.

Apeing the cam sprocket bolt can do this, but it usually happens at the time the person does the apeing. Sometimes, it would appear, it happens later.....

Last edited by Genesis; February 19th, 2018 at 14:53.
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Old February 19th, 2018, 13:54   #11
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So it sounds like the valves are hitting the Pistons causing it to turn slowly, then once the lifters are collapsed enough, it spins over faster.

That's my WAG anyway.
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Old February 20th, 2018, 11:57   #12
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I pulled the valve cover, the camshaft sheared at the first cap so it only rotates cylinder one. Is there any way to test for bent valves without pulling the head? Can I get away with just replacing cam and lifters for a month just to get me to work and back?
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Old February 20th, 2018, 12:05   #13
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The valves DID hit (look at the lifters; you'll see spider-style deformation or cracks in them), the stems WERE compromised, and if you don't pull the head and have it completely gone through you are risking a valve head break off without warning.

If that happens the odds are quite high you will total the engine.

What you have right now is repairable. If you try to short-cut this you risk a failure that is not repairable; these engines are not sleeved and if you severely damage a cylinder bore you're done.

You also need to figure out WHY the cam sheared. That's not something I've heard of as a common issue..... at all.

Last edited by Genesis; February 20th, 2018 at 12:18.
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Old February 20th, 2018, 12:05   #14
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You need to take the head off. You can take the cam out if you like, and pull all the bearings out and the lifters out and visually inspect from the top side how the valves look, you may see something then.

Takes ~15 min, tops.
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Old February 20th, 2018, 14:06   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilhammer View Post
....
Takes Oilhammer ~15 min, tops.
Fixed it for ya. For some people it takes 16 minutes just to figure out what tools are needed and to find them.
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