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Go Back   TDIClub Forums > VW TDI Discussion Areas > Alternative Diesel Fuels (Biodiesel, WVO, SVO, BTL, GTL etc)

Alternative Diesel Fuels (Biodiesel, WVO, SVO, BTL, GTL etc) Discussions about alternative fuels for use in our TDI's. This includes biodiesel WVO (Waste Vegetable Oil), SVO (Straight Vegetable Oil), BTL (Biomass to Liquid), GTL (Gas to Liquids) etc. Please note the Fuel Disclaimer.

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Old February 4th, 2018, 18:54   #1
radmatty
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Default Natural Gas or Propane Dual-Fuel w/Diesel?

Anybody on the board had any experience with compressed natural gas or propane as a supplemental fuel for performance enhancement or as a dual-fuel scenario?

I saw a couple of YouTube videos created by people seeking to sell equipment to make it possible. They made it look like it was pretty easy to inject a metered stream of natural gas just upstream from the turbo and be running as much as 75% CNG. The benefits seem to be pretty substantial. A cleaner more complete burn of the diesel fuel, increased performance and the ability to use a less costly fuel, in the case of CNG. Of course, carrying any amount of CNG is a pain in the neck due to the high cost of the equipment and the bulky nature of the storage tanks.

Nevertheless, the idea appeals to me. And since I'm contemplating a TDI swap into my Toyota pickup I would have the room and a convenient location to keep a tank or tanks for CNG. With 19 gallons of diesel onboard and 12 gallons equivalent of CNG my truck would have roughly an 1100 mile range.

Last edited by radmatty; February 4th, 2018 at 18:57.
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Old February 4th, 2018, 22:18   #2
Nevada_TDI
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Look up Dr Volks, he is well known for CNG conversions in TDI's.
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Old February 5th, 2018, 09:16   #3
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Running on 75% CNG or LPG would give significantly less performance than straight diesel. Unfortunately, both gasses have pretty poor combustion characteristics for compression ignition engines designed to run on diesel fuel.
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Old February 5th, 2018, 12:56   #4
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Negative on running that high %age CNG/LPG, especially with the rudimentary controls to use it in a car and have it properly interact with the existing Diesel fuel injection system and ECU. 10-20% max as a performance enhancer, and I'm sure Bob Mann (CNGVW) will wax poetic about it so I need not say more about it here.

True dual-fuel (gas + pilot Diesel ignition) setups are far more complex and are seen more for truck and stationary engines, but even then are going more towards to mono-fuel natural gas / propane with spark ignition because recent advances have closed the torque and efficiency gaps but at far lower costs and much easier emission control.
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Old February 6th, 2018, 07:37   #5
belome
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radmatty View Post
my truck would have roughly an 1100 mile range.
Yeah, but your bladder doesn't... stop to pee stop to fuel.
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Old February 6th, 2018, 19:09   #6
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Fuel Economy: Built a 2002 TDI Jetta that got 120 mpg of diesel using a CNG blend.
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Thank for the kind words TDI Master
Let's see one of my ALH street setup with a computer control system did for added HP and Torque red is with CNG first time on the dyno

This on the Ford truck 70% CNG 30% on one test
the cost of CNG at the time was $1.00 a GAL below is a3 pulls with 2 CNG/D one for max power and one forever day driving


I do not do any more system cost of CNG is too high got a bunch of systems and support stuff I will sell off
Quote:
Originally Posted by TDIMeister View Post
Negative on running that high %age CNG/LPG, especially with the rudimentary controls to use it in a car and have it properly interact with the existing Diesel fuel injection system and ECU. 10-20% max as a performance enhancer, and I'm sure Bob Mann (CNGVW) will wax poetic about it so I need not say more about it here.
True dual-fuel (gas + pilot Diesel ignition) setups are far more complex and are seen more for truck and stationary engines, but even then are going more towards to mono-fuel natural gas / propane with spark ignition because recent advances have closed the torque and efficiency gaps but at far lower costs and much easier emission control.
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Last edited by CNGVW; February 6th, 2018 at 19:21.
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Old February 6th, 2018, 22:07   #7
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I was seeing stuff on youtube that made it seem like a thing to look into. It looks like a number of individuals have tried to create businesses selling CNG dual fuel systems, but they seem not to last very long.

Glad to get the straight dope here on TDIclub.

So if anything, CNG or propane are best used as a performance enhancer at low concentration (10 -20%). Any benefits of one of those fuels, one over the other?
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Old February 7th, 2018, 11:31   #8
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Propane stores as a liquid, so it has a much higher BTU per volume stored - a tank that fits in the spare tire hole holds more propane than a CNG tank that sits between the rear shock towers.

OTOH, CNG has a higher octane rating and autoignition temperature, making it more resistant to knocking and preignition when fumigating it into the intake of an engine and compressing it 19.5:1.
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