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TDI Power Enhancements Discussions about increasing the power of your TDI engine. i.e. chips, injectors, powerboxes, clutches, etc. Handling, suspensions, wheels, type discussion should be put into the "Upgrades (non TDI Engine related)" forum. Non TDI vehicle related postings will be moved or removed. Please note the Performance Disclaimer.

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Old February 5th, 2018, 12:40   #16
TDIMeister
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More air is the simple ticket to lower EGT. At part-load, steady state, you can map a little bit more requested boost and that will bring your EGT right down. No issues with R520s with rest stock fuel system as long as durations are being kept short and you have the turbo sized properly, but this mainly affects full-load. There are many variations of BV43A but in the end it's still equivalent to a GT17V, ie on the small side for what should be capable of ~200 crank HP given the R520 used. Would be good to also measure and compare EMP and MAP simultaneously. BV43D or GTD1752VRK would be better.

Water injection makes a big difference to EGT, and requires very little quantity to achieve it. But you'd want to use it only at near-full load acceleration, not in steady cruise, or you'll never have a big-enough reservoir. Inject too much and smoke goes up, efficiency goes down.

A cam should be completely off the table if you want to maintain low-end torque for a 4000# vehicle.
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Old February 5th, 2018, 19:49   #17
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Yea Im not doing water injection. Thats more for a short burst WOT track day car. I had a setup on a DSM back in the day before big cheap intercoolers. It did a keep the intake nice and clean though.

I want to keep my low torque down low for sure. The R520s are fine with the 11mm pump and a dodge 12 valve intank pump and no more than 26psi out of the BV43a at WOT.

Thanks for the input guys I will continue with a larger cooler install and go from there. It may be all im looking for.
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Old February 5th, 2018, 20:35   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motohead1 View Post
Yea Im not doing water injection. Thats more for a short burst WOT track day car. I had a setup on a DSM back in the day before big cheap intercoolers. It did a keep the intake nice and clean though.

I want to keep my low torque down low for sure. The R520s are fine with the 11mm pump and a dodge 12 valve intank pump and no more than 26psi out of the BV43a at WOT.

Thanks for the input guys I will continue with a larger cooler install and go from there. It may be all im looking for.
What orifice did you run and what set up was it, i run a preturbo and post turbo 0.02" orifice off my auber gauges of distilled water and i can drive 60 miles each way to an autocross event, compete and get home on about .5 gallons of water. I hammer on it hard too driving home.

with a fine tuned set up i have no issues driving all day long. its only on when i get up in EGT, on at 1400 and off at 1200F and only at least at 15 psi, i run 32 psi so its on at 20 and off at 15. it only needs to to cool off the egt's 2nd stage is on at 1475F and off at 1200.

at 100PSi, i run about 45 psi so say half, the injectors consume 1.9 GPH and that stage 2 rarly comes on but on hard up hill pulls going WOT. how often do you see temps past 1400F? now count how long they stay like that. now do the math. you consume next to nothing.

https://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/124/2150/=1bg221h
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Old February 5th, 2018, 20:48   #19
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Larger IC will do squat for you as your high EGT is at part load where there should not be appreciable boost. Just ask for an ECU file that requests 10% higher MAP at part load.

Make sure also that the injection timing is not retarded.
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Old February 6th, 2018, 14:27   #20
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Timely question, I wondered about this too with my swap. My truck is similar @ 4100lbs last time it was weighed, and I am running PP764s nozzles on an 11mm pump.

Since I already had a Franko6 stage 2 cam in my Golf, I decided to swap the cam and lifters between the truck and the Golf a few weeks ago when I had the truck motor out for my engine mount re-do.

I can't argue with TDIMeister's explanation - but the cam did result in slightly lower EGTs across the board, with the biggest decrease coming in the higher revs ~3000-3500 rpm. Steady state on flat highway we're only talking 25F lower, but up steep grades I noticed 50-75 degrees cooler EGTs that I was used to.

It's not earth shattering, and if I had spent $300 on a cam and $80 for lifters to replace a perfectly good stock cam I would be disappointed. However, since I had it already it made sense to put in in the engine with the bigger turbo, PD150 intake manifold, and the ported head (exhaust only) vs. the stock breathing in my Golf.

I also don't feel like my low end power has suffered appreciably in the truck, nor improved in the Golf now that it's sporting a stock cam.

I do wish there was better consensus on what is a safe sustained EGT for the motor, not just the turbo. I start to wonder when the head and pistons are going to change shape and cause bad things. Maybe they are not of concern since they're cooled with oil/coolant and the turbo will be the first thing to go?
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Old February 6th, 2018, 17:35   #21
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I found that moving the torque up worked better for a heavier vehicle. Mine was in a loaded wrangler (bumpers, winch, full size spare, etc) If your Dakota has a NV3550 in it you have a close ratio first gear anyway. The key is to make sure its geared properly.

If your going to rely on the torque down low to move the heavier vehicles I strongly suggest you ad rod bearings to your maintenance schedule. If you think I am kidding and you have 10k on your fresh new bearings...pull one and you will see... or should I say you might not like what you see..

The low rpm torque is fun, it makes for giggles, smiles, you know... that giddy feeling... But in reality there is not enough bearing surface area to be lugging it around. Rpm adds the oil volume and pressure that is needed to keep those bearings alive when you consider the higher torque output weighed against the higher loads hanging on the back side of the crank. The tdi is more than capable of surpassing the shear limits of your oil at low engine speeds.
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Old February 6th, 2018, 19:04   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mongler98 View Post
What orifice did you run and what set up was it, i run a preturbo and post turbo 0.02" orifice off my auber gauges of distilled water and i can drive 60 miles each way to an autocross event, compete and get home on about .5 gallons of water. I hammer on it hard too driving home.

https://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/124/2150/=1bg221h
It was a shurflow garden pump at 100psi. Caint remember anything else but Im sure its on dsmtuners somewhere.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TDIMeister View Post
Larger IC will do squat for you as your high EGT is at part load where there should not be appreciable boost. Just ask for an ECU file that requests 10% higher MAP at part load.

Make sure also that the injection timing is not retarded.
So flat ground little to no load I measure 25 to 30 F IAT above ambient. no MAF and MAP sensor is mounted on the PD150 intake. I think if I can get 10 to 15 F above ambient it should make a noticeable difference especially in summer. my injection timing is just a hair above the middle line in VCDS. I havent played with moving it around yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by smelly621 View Post
Timely question, I wondered about this too with my swap. My truck is similar @ 4100lbs last time it was weighed, and I am running PP764s nozzles on an 11mm pump.

Since I already had a Franko6 stage 2 cam in my Golf, I decided to swap the cam and lifters between the truck and the Golf a few weeks ago when I had the truck motor out for my engine mount re-do.

I can't argue with TDIMeister's explanation - but the cam did result in slightly lower EGTs across the board, with the biggest decrease coming in the higher revs ~3000-3500 rpm. Steady state on flat highway we're only talking 25F lower, but up steep grades I noticed 50-75 degrees cooler EGTs that I was used to.

It's not earth shattering, and if I had spent $300 on a cam and $80 for lifters to replace a perfectly good stock cam I would be disappointed. However, since I had it already it made sense to put in in the engine with the bigger turbo, PD150 intake manifold, and the ported head (exhaust only) vs. the stock breathing in my Golf.

I also don't feel like my low end power has suffered appreciably in the truck, nor improved in the Golf now that it's sporting a stock cam.

I do wish there was better consensus on what is a safe sustained EGT for the motor, not just the turbo. I start to wonder when the head and pistons are going to change shape and cause bad things. Maybe they are not of concern since they're cooled with oil/coolant and the turbo will be the first thing to go?
Good info thats the real world comparison I was looking for. My main concern is also for the other components and longevity. The turbo is fine.
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Old February 6th, 2018, 19:09   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by All Stock View Post
I found that moving the torque up worked better for a heavier vehicle. Mine was in a loaded wrangler (bumpers, winch, full size spare, etc) If your Dakota has a NV3550 in it you have a close ratio first gear anyway. The key is to make sure its geared properly.

If your going to rely on the torque down low to move the heavier vehicles I strongly suggest you ad rod bearings to your maintenance schedule. If you think I am kidding and you have 10k on your fresh new bearings...pull one and you will see... or should I say you might not like what you see..

The low rpm torque is fun, it makes for giggles, smiles, you know... that giddy feeling... But in reality there is not enough bearing surface area to be lugging it around. Rpm adds the oil volume and pressure that is needed to keep those bearings alive when you consider the higher torque output weighed against the higher loads hanging on the back side of the crank. The tdi is more than capable of surpassing the shear limits of your oil at low engine speeds.
Yea I am running the stock NV3500 with 32 inch tires with 4.56 gears. drives great and no lugging at all now. It was not that great when it had the stock 3.55 gears. 5th gear was unusable.
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Old February 7th, 2018, 13:10   #24
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NV3550 and 4.56 on 32-33's is a perfect combo. I started with 4.10s on 33's and it wasn't enough gear. It was ok but not ideal. I went 4.88's as I will go with 35's as it goes back together... and 4.56's weren't avail when I did it. The tdi sheared rear R&P teeth in the middle of the desert, literally! Even the 4.88 gears on 33's work very well, I just feel I could drop 100 rpm at 70 mph. Its a common gear to use for the 4 cylinders to give them comfortable highway abilities instead of constantly down shifting. The tdi can use less... hence the 4.56 being ideal. Now how you drive it will determine bearing life.
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