www.tdiclub.com

Economy - Longevity - Performance
The #1 Source of TDI Information on the Web!
Forums Articles Links Meets
Orders TDI Club Cards TDIFest 2016 Gone, but not forgotten VAG-Com List Unit Conversions TDIClub Chat Thank You




Go Back   TDIClub Forums > VW TDI Discussion Areas > TDI Power Enhancements

TDI Power Enhancements Discussions about increasing the power of your TDI engine. i.e. chips, injectors, powerboxes, clutches, etc. Handling, suspensions, wheels, type discussion should be put into the "Upgrades (non TDI Engine related)" forum. Non TDI vehicle related postings will be moved or removed. Please note the Performance Disclaimer.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old January 31st, 2018, 05:14   #1
Kerma_tuned
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Edmonton,Ab Canada
Fuel Economy: 51
Default Modified kerma 02 jetta

Kerma 02 TDI
ive only done a small amount of work so far....mainly because i work a 15 and 6 job out of town but in the time ive had off ive gotten a decent amount done
So far ive done:
Vnt 17 plus turbo(24psi)
3 bar map sensor
3 inch turbo back exhaust
Boost and egt gauges
Race 520 injectors
Custom tune from kerma

Im more then impressed by this setup but you know the upgrades never end. Even tho this setup was easily good for 2nd gear wheel spin im aiming higher. Wheel spins with 225/45r17 winter tires on pavement just for reference.

When my dad and myself get time we have alot more work to do. Some of which includes:
Soutchbend stage 2 endurance clutch(hopeing it holds)
Colt stage 3 camshaft
Kerma SMIC and 2.5inch plumbing
Tuscan rods
New lifters
Arp head studs(bet head gasket gunna blow soon)

What else do people think i need?!??
Im sure im forgeting something so send your ideas my way. When everything is put in and done i plan on getting it dyno tuned but for now its just kerma(very,VERY impressed so far) sending me tunes for my car. Please share your thoughts and ideas. And anyone have a clue what kind of numbers i should be expecting rn? PS im just an 18 y/o blowing too much money on my tdi, but hey, still gets 40+mpg for my daily driving

Last edited by Kerma_tuned; April 9th, 2018 at 08:54.
Kerma_tuned is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 31st, 2018, 07:42   #2
Franko6
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Sw Missouri
Default

Wear that name proudly. Be sure to let us know how it goes.
__________________
Frank's VW TDI's, LLC
1007 Olive St.
Lockwood, MO 65682
417-232-4634
FranksTDIs@sbcglobal.net

'02 80k grey leather, 99.5 R.I.P 153k
'85A2 NA 375k, '91 A3 290k Always Silver, Always a Jetta
Franko6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 31st, 2018, 07:44   #3
h4vok
Veteran Member
 
h4vok's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Denver (ex MN)
Fuel Economy: 35 to 50
Default

The race520s will not be the best choice if you dont have a 11mm pump from the auto installed. I would look at the DLC1019 or pp764 if you have the 10mm. Could expect around 150whp and 275wtq I would guess if you are ok with a little smoke. The engines over seas came with the vnt17 and DLC520 size nozzles if I am not mistaken so you are basically just making it euro spec with a tune. You could try and find a 17/22 hybrid or similar if you want a further upgrade from the stock turbo.
__________________
DLC520, Mufflerectomy, tuned, more linked below
My car thread

h4vok is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 31st, 2018, 07:56   #4
Kerma_tuned
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Edmonton,Ab Canada
Fuel Economy: 51
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by h4vok View Post
The race520s will not be the best choice if you dont have a 11mm pump from the auto installed. I would look at the DLC1019 or pp764 if you have the 10mm. Could expect around 150whp and 275wtq I would guess if you are ok with a little smoke. The engines over seas came with the vnt17 and DLC520 size nozzles if I am not mistaken so you are basically just making it euro spec with a tune. You could try and find a 17/22 hybrid or similar if you want a further upgrade from the stock turbo.
I have their new one vnt17plus hybrid(17/26) and cant wait to see how it stacks up against the mahle 15
Kerma_tuned is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 31st, 2018, 08:33   #5
h4vok
Veteran Member
 
h4vok's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Denver (ex MN)
Fuel Economy: 35 to 50
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kerma_tuned View Post
I have their new one vnt17plus hybrid(17/26) and cant wait to see how it stacks up against the mahle 15
Nice! 150whp should be easy to get too then. The only upgrades I see missing are an intercooler. With more boost you will need to cool the air. Fixmyvw has a nice side mount one that is much bigger if you want it in the stock location. There are front mounts too get one with the inlet and outlet on the same side so the plumbing can stay over on the passenger side. I would have it tuned to keep the smoke low personally to keep egt down and help everything last since that is a concern of yours.
__________________
DLC520, Mufflerectomy, tuned, more linked below
My car thread

h4vok is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 31st, 2018, 09:01   #6
PB_NB
Veteran Member
 
PB_NB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Vancouver, B.C.
Default

Sounds pretty similar to my setup but you may more fuelling with those nozzles and tune.

I have a larger than stock intercooler and got rid of the pancake pipe restriction.

Here is my dyno sheet right after doing that work. I use the car for towing and it does a great job with ~2000 lbs attached to it.



Forgot to mention that the lower numbers are with a few modifications and Malone stage 3 tune.
__________________
1999 New Beetle TDI - Bosio 1019's, Malone S4, Skid Plate, Neuspeed Sway Bars, KW V2, 19's BBS-CH, Spyder LED's, EGR Delete, VF Mounts, South Bend Clutch, B&M Shift Kit, VNT17, Custom Side Mount Intercooler, HPA Big Brakes 355mm Ft/335mm Rr, 2.5" Custom SS Straight Through Exhaust, Colt Stage 2 Cam, 3 Bar Map.

Last edited by PB_NB; January 31st, 2018 at 09:06.
PB_NB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 31st, 2018, 10:19   #7
Kerma_tuned
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Edmonton,Ab Canada
Fuel Economy: 51
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by h4vok View Post
Nice! 150whp should be easy to get too then. The only upgrades I see missing are an intercooler. With more boost you will need to cool the air. Fixmyvw has a nice side mount one that is much bigger if you want it in the stock location. There are front mounts too get one with the inlet and outlet on the same side so the plumbing can stay over on the passenger side. I would have it tuned to keep the smoke low personally to keep egt down and help everything last since that is a concern of yours.
Thanks for the response!Im looking at running 24-25psi of boost through it so ill do the intercooler as well then😉
Aside from head studs should i be worried about valves,camshaft,connecting rods, suspension, motor mounts,etc?Id rather do everything that i should while the engine is apart reather then doing it piece by piece. Also is the auto 11mm pump a direct replacement for the manual 10mm?
Kerma_tuned is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 31st, 2018, 11:49   #8
IndigoBlueWagon
TDIClub Enthusiast
Principal IDParts
Vendor
w/Business number
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: South of Boston
Fuel Economy: 50/45/37
Default

25 PSI is right on the edge of what stock connecting rods can take. Cylinder pressures depend on three factors: fueling, boost, and revs. You're working on two of the three. I ran milder fueling than you and 26 PSI and eventually bent all 4 rods. But I was also running a 6000 RPM tune, and used it.
__________________
2002 Jetta wagon, 375K, RC3+; 1993 Mercedes-Benz 300D 2.5, 197K; 1997 Passat, 286K; '99.5 Golf, 259K; 2011 335d, 56K; 2015 Golf Sportwagen, 11K. Principal, http://www.idparts.com
Kid's cars: 2002 Golf TDI, 2002 Jetta TDI
IndigoBlueWagon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 31st, 2018, 21:12   #9
Kerma_tuned
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Edmonton,Ab Canada
Fuel Economy: 51
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by IndigoBlueWagon View Post
25 PSI is right on the edge of what stock connecting rods can take. Cylinder pressures depend on three factors: fueling, boost, and revs. You're working on two of the three. I ran milder fueling than you and 26 PSI and eventually bent all 4 rods. But I was also running a 6000 RPM tune, and used it.
I usually dont run much past 4000rpm unless im on a highway in 5th gear making a civic owner dissapointed😂 ive read that a chip tune, injectors, and aftermarket turbo are the only things you need to get to 180whp.......still would like to know if thats sustainable on stock internals....🤔 im always game to learn more then what im asking about and when i finally get everything installed and tuned i plan on making a nice summary for others looking to build their own alh powerhouse!
Kerma_tuned is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 31st, 2018, 21:46   #10
Nevada_TDI
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Reno, sort of...
Default

OP, you are a bit confused on the turbos... a vnt17 doka is a 17/52 aka 17/22, not a 17/56 aka 17/26, these are very different turbos. A standard 17/56 is a vnt-20 frame turbo and is not designed for low RPM grunt as it takes quite a bit of RPM and fuel to achieve spool. The doka turbo is technically a hybrid turbo, and hybrid turbos are well known in the TDI world. A "doka" 17/52 is a better spooling turbo than a standard 17/52 due to the lower A/R achieved by machining the vnt-17 cold side. My 17/56 is machined using a vnt-15 cold side and my intention was not to make a 200HP engine; I wanted an engine that would give instant spool even at the 4600' elevation I live at and not run out of breath at WOT. It does not ever run out of breath even at 8600' when I am up at Lake Tahoe.
__________________
_______________
2001 Jetta GL TDI, Tinted, Ventectomy, Catectomy, EGR-ectomy, TDTuning, HIFLO .216's, Stealth 17/56 Garrett, VCDS Hex+CAN, South Bend Daily Driver 2 Clutch, DG Short Shifter, Frostheater, Baldwin Fuel Filter, Previous Diesel: 1983 Rabbit Diesel
Nevada_TDI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 1st, 2018, 02:27   #11
Kerma_tuned
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Edmonton,Ab Canada
Fuel Economy: 51
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevada_TDI View Post
OP, you are a bit confused on the turbos... a vnt17 doka is a 17/52 aka 17/22, not a 17/56 aka 17/26, these are very different turbos. A standard 17/56 is a vnt-20 frame turbo and is not designed for low RPM grunt as it takes quite a bit of RPM and fuel to achieve spool. The doka turbo is technically a hybrid turbo, and hybrid turbos are well known in the TDI world. A "doka" 17/52 is a better spooling turbo than a standard 17/52 due to the lower A/R achieved by machining the vnt-17 cold side. My 17/56 is machined using a vnt-15 cold side and my intention was not to make a 200HP engine; I wanted an engine that would give instant spool even at the 4600' elevation I live at and not run out of breath at WOT. It does not ever run out of breath even at 8600' when I am up at Lake Tahoe.
Its kermas 17/26 turbo built for an alh engine.......their replacement for the discontinued 17/22
Kerma_tuned is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 1st, 2018, 03:25   #12
IndigoBlueWagon
TDIClub Enthusiast
Principal IDParts
Vendor
w/Business number
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: South of Boston
Fuel Economy: 50/45/37
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kerma_tuned View Post
ive read that a chip tune, injectors, and aftermarket turbo are the only things you need to get to 180whp.
I would say that's not true, depending on the dyno. I made 185 HP on a very conservative dyno but my car had an 11mm pump, PP502 nozzles, PD150 intake manifold, airbox to turbo intake, MAF, airbox, and snorkel, a 2.5" exhaust, 17/22 turbo, in tank lift pump. Stock internals, but I did eventually bend the rods.

I think 150-160 HP and 260-280 torque is a safe limit for stock internals.
__________________
2002 Jetta wagon, 375K, RC3+; 1993 Mercedes-Benz 300D 2.5, 197K; 1997 Passat, 286K; '99.5 Golf, 259K; 2011 335d, 56K; 2015 Golf Sportwagen, 11K. Principal, http://www.idparts.com
Kid's cars: 2002 Golf TDI, 2002 Jetta TDI
IndigoBlueWagon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 1st, 2018, 03:44   #13
Kerma_tuned
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Edmonton,Ab Canada
Fuel Economy: 51
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by IndigoBlueWagon View Post
I would say that's not true, depending on the dyno. I made 185 HP on a very conservative dyno but my car had an 11mm pump, PP502 nozzles, PD150 intake manifold, airbox to turbo intake, MAF, airbox, and snorkel, a 2.5" exhaust, 17/22 turbo, in tank lift pump. Stock internals, but I did eventually bend the rods.
I think 150-160 HP and 260-280 torque is a safe limit for stock internals.
Never read much about it but what happens when you bend a rod? Are you looking at a new engine?new pistons and connecting rods?
Kerma_tuned is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 1st, 2018, 05:56   #14
IndigoBlueWagon
TDIClub Enthusiast
Principal IDParts
Vendor
w/Business number
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: South of Boston
Fuel Economy: 50/45/37
Default

If you just bend them you might not even notice. Compression will be lower, either evenly or unevenly, depending on how the rods bend. A compression test will show whether or not they're bent. Rods can break and hole the block, but that's pretty rare in these engines. You'll need a set of new rods if they're bent, and at that point you can decide whether or not you want to replace pistons or rings.

In my wagon a timing belt service at 265K miles showed excessive valve guide wear. When we pulled the head to refresh it we discovered the bent rods. Otherwise the car drove fine. Refreshed the head, replaced rods, honed cylinders, new pistons and rings. But the engine continued to consume oil. Tuned out the bores were ovaled, probably from the high rev running (I used the car for a lot of track days and typically would shift at 5400-5600 RPM). Ended up replacing the engine with a new factory long block, as it wasn't much more costly than machining the existing block.

These engines are pretty durable, but they have their limits. Right now I'm running a stock VNT-15, all the breathing mods mentioned above, PP357 injectors with the 11mm pump. Car makes about 145/260 at the wheels, which is plenty of power for the street. And I almost always get over 700 miles on a fill up. I'm happy with it.
__________________
2002 Jetta wagon, 375K, RC3+; 1993 Mercedes-Benz 300D 2.5, 197K; 1997 Passat, 286K; '99.5 Golf, 259K; 2011 335d, 56K; 2015 Golf Sportwagen, 11K. Principal, http://www.idparts.com
Kid's cars: 2002 Golf TDI, 2002 Jetta TDI
IndigoBlueWagon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 1st, 2018, 09:57   #15
Nevada_TDI
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Reno, sort of...
Default

OP, from Kerma's website:
The New!! Kerma 17plus for ALH and BEW engines. The 17plus comes with a new 52mm aerodynamically engineered billet wheel (doka version) that helps dramatically increase compressor burst resistance and allows higher shaft speeds.
-Kerma exclusive replacement for the popular (but now obsolete) 17/22.
I am not trying to be an a$$, I just don't want you to be confused about which turbo is which.
__________________
_______________
2001 Jetta GL TDI, Tinted, Ventectomy, Catectomy, EGR-ectomy, TDTuning, HIFLO .216's, Stealth 17/56 Garrett, VCDS Hex+CAN, South Bend Daily Driver 2 Clutch, DG Short Shifter, Frostheater, Baldwin Fuel Filter, Previous Diesel: 1983 Rabbit Diesel
Nevada_TDI is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Modified 2001 Jetta TDI TurboBenz Jetta/Bora/Vento TDI Picture Gallery 46 August 5th, 2013 12:18
Modified 1999.5 Jetta TDI gula47 TDI Cars for Sale/Wanted 3 June 30th, 2012 13:26
FS: modified 2002 Jetta dolde TDI Cars for Sale/Wanted 3 June 14th, 2012 21:01
2001 Modified Jetta Sootman TDI Cars for Sale/Wanted 9 July 25th, 2008 12:57


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 22:09.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright - TDIClub Online LTD - 2017
Contact Us | Privacy Statement | Forum Rules | Disclaimer
TDIClub Online Ltd (TDIClub.com) is not affiliated with the VWoA or VWAG and is supported by contributions from viewers like you.
1996 - 2017, All Rights Reserved
Page generated in 0.17060 seconds with 10 queries
[Output: 136.56 Kb. compressed to 115.16 Kb. by saving 21.39 Kb. (15.67%)]