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Old January 16th, 2018, 15:25   #1
Nicrocc
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Default Carbon removal caused engine damage!

Hello all, I just joined the site. I am very happy to have found this resource. I wish I would of got on here a lot sooner. Iím hoping that you guys can give me some support here and point me in the right direction.
I have an 03 golf manual TDI. Iíve owned the car for 16 months with no problem s. It has 223k and was running like a dream. Then one day it started losing power in first and second gear. I took the car to a friend of mine who is a mechanic. He found an enormous amount of carbon buildup in the EGR valve. So he replaced the EGR, and then he cleaned out the intake by some mechanical methods to remove as much carbon as he could without removing the intake it self. He use sea foam as well. He said this caused a huge gooey mess. He had to change the oil twice to get the goop out. He gave the car back to me but he was to confident in the job. He said he would probably have to remove the whole intake to get it all out. I needed the car.

When I drove the car there was a slight difference in power but it was about the same, the only real difference was that the engine sounded different. I took the car on the freeway for a 60mile drive one way. The car lacked power, and on the way back the car lost all power and then something broke in the engine I was still able to limp off the freeway despite the huge cloud of smoke behind me.

it seems like a big piece of carbon broke lose and cause damage, but I donít know? Car still starts but smokes and when this happened it burnt up all the oil.

Does any know what I should do next. I would like to have the motor rebuilt, but I hear that can be pretty expensive to do. Over $2000
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Old January 16th, 2018, 15:51   #2
joetdi
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A lot of times when you clean the intake and now have your power back or somewhat. You can pull excess oil from the I/C that would normally not be there. I am wondering your car tried to run away on you. Most of the time when that happens you don't get it started again without a lot of work. A piece of carbon could have gone in the combustion chamber though and now you have a dead cylinder.

Are you saying your crankcase is dry?
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Old January 16th, 2018, 16:07   #3
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The only safe way to remove carbon buildup from the intake manifold is to remove it from the car. I'll bet a chunk of carbon got ingested and ruined a piston or the piston rings.
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Old January 16th, 2018, 16:19   #4
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Yeah your mechanic friend messed it up. Not all mechanics are created equal. You took a gamble, you lost. You should be able to get a used engine for under 2k.
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Old January 16th, 2018, 16:19   #5
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When cleaning the Intake, as others have posted, it needs to be removed from the engine. Also, probably as important, if not more, the "intake ports" of the head need to be cleaned as well. Sliding on a freshly cleaned Intake on a dirty head is a disaster waiting to happen!

Below is a pic of the two center ports of an ALH head .... Notice all the carbon? Further, notice there have been some chunks flaked off? Well, that chunking off destroyed the head as well as the rest of the engine.





Below, you can see what's left of the cam follower (lifter)



Below, is the cam before it was removed..


.....
Unfortunately, I believe this is what has happened to your engine.
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Last edited by AndyBees; January 16th, 2018 at 16:24. Reason: Add two pics
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Old January 16th, 2018, 16:26   #6
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another one bites the dust
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Old January 16th, 2018, 19:04   #7
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ARG, not again. So sorry for your loss. FYI never let anyone work on your car but yourself or a licensed and insured mechanic company. This would have been covered if some legit shop did this.

For fun, you can pull the head and see what’s going on.

You must remove the intake to clean. I also cleaned my head when it was on the car. Here is what I did in a nut shell. I took the valve cover off and made sure that the runner I was working had the valve closed and on the base circle of the cam. I took various plastic picks, plastic spoons carved to thin profiles and some nylon brushes, and I had my automotive fluid sucker running and a can of carb and brake cleaner. I would scrape and pick and what not and then as I was sucking I would also spray a tiny bit into the runner to clean it out as it was getting sucked up. There is enough room to get your face down at eye level an out of the cover of your eye and with a mirror I could do all of them. I cranked the engine over by hand a few times to make sure that there was no fluid hydro locking it and to expel any fluids that made it past the valves out the glow plug holes. It worked REALLY well, you can’t get into the swirled snail shell part but it got just about all of it. Took me 30 minutes each runner. never put any metal other than brass in there, you could scratch up the valve with a screwdriver so I kept it all soft plastic tools.

NEVER EVER put seafoam into the engine in any way other than in the fuel tank. Gas engines won’t burn that stuff but diesels will run away if you do.

Pull the head and report back if you are brave enough to try and save the engine. It’s probably done for but hey, you should try and investigate it for minimal cost. First step is to do a leak down test and then a compression test if it cranks ok. I would crank it by hand at this point.

Best of luck bud.
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Old January 16th, 2018, 19:08   #8
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its possible that a chunk got into the engine and got blasted into the turbo. If a piece got into the turbo it would destroy it for sure, this would explain the smoke and loss of power and its ability to limp home. Take the exhaust off and intake to the turbo and wiggle the shaft *LOL* (thats what she said). A tiny bit side to side is normal but next to no forward to back play.

your still going to need to take off the head if it fails a leak down test and or compression test. If its the turbo and the engine came out in fair shape, you might only be out a few hundred bucks for a used turbo. If that was the case i would ask your "friend" "Mechanic" to split the cost with you.
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Old January 16th, 2018, 19:22   #9
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Mongler98, most of what you posted in the above two posts has already been covered above. No need to pound on the OP's mistake.
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Old January 16th, 2018, 19:26   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aja8888 View Post
Mongler98, most of what you posted in the above two posts has already been covered above. No need to pound on the OP's mistake.
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Old January 16th, 2018, 20:52   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mongler98 View Post
its possible that a chunk got into the engine and got blasted into the turbo. If a piece got into the turbo it would destroy it for sure, this would explain the smoke and loss of power and its ability to limp home. Take the exhaust off and intake to the turbo and wiggle the shaft *LOL* (thats what she said). A tiny bit side to side is normal but next to no forward to back play.

your still going to need to take off the head if it fails a leak down test and or compression test. If its the turbo and the engine came out in fair shape, you might only be out a few hundred bucks for a used turbo. If that was the case i would ask your "friend" "Mechanic" to split the cost with you.
I approve this post and don't need Benny Hill in drag to tell me otherwise.............
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Old January 16th, 2018, 21:33   #12
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A problem here is that there are no real forensics. Complicating it all is this:

Iíve owned the car for 16 months with no problem s. It has 223k and was running like a dream. Then one day it started losing power in first and second gear.

Intake clogging just doesn't happen overnight. Some other issue popped up and then lead to the (unfortunate) intake cleaning. The intake cleaning may or may not have been the underlying CAUSE of whatever damage currently exists. YES, the methodology used by this mechanic was WRONG; however, we have no idea how many such improperly done jobs have resulted in no apparent damage.

The car needs to be taken to a well recognized TDI guru. More data is needed!
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Old January 17th, 2018, 06:00   #13
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A: how am i pounding on OP's "mistake"?
B: like UhOh said, this was not the problem to start with. I forget who said it but someone here posted a few months ago that they have seen cars with intakes so clogged up they looked like only a small amount of air was getting in and it never ran that bad.
C: No one covered a good bit of what i said soooo not sure what your talking about, is there another thread i missed?
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Old January 17th, 2018, 06:15   #14
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A lot of heartless comments on this thread. Guy probably just lost his engine and your poking him with a stick. Shameful.
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Old January 17th, 2018, 07:16   #15
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