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Old January 2nd, 2018, 14:47   #1
VincenzaV
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Default CV/Axle or Wheel bearing????

2004 Jetta wagon, 204K miles. Two owner (my parents bought it new) car, well maintained.

I replaced the PS axle about two years ago (Raxles, not the cheap parts store ones), when I heard so popping when turning. It was pretty obvious what it was.

I just did front brakes a few days ago, and noticed a noise (whump-whump-whump) yesterday. Thought maybe I messed up the brakes somehow, so spun the wheels/tires by hand, looked for uneven rotor wear, noise when spinning, etc. Everything GTG with the brakes.

The symptoms are:

-Noise (whump-whump-whump) and slight vibration at the same time

It goes away when:

-I apply the brakes
-I get on the gas

From about 15mph up, this is noticeable. I haven't taken it on the highway like this yet, until it is fixed.

One side of me says it has to be THE OTHER axle/CV now, since the OEM PS one failed two years ago. I figured the DS wasn't too far behind.

But I have recently decided to be more methodical and troubleshoot much more thoroughly now (old me would just guesstimate and through parts on it figuring I would have to do it anyway).

What do you think it is? Axle/CV? Wheel bearing? Something else?

The crux of it is at the speeds I notice it (say 35mph for example), when accelerating, it goes "away", or braking, it goes "away". This tells me it shouldn't be the wheel bearing. Right? Thank you

***EDIT***. I actually replaced the D.S. axle-CV with Raxles rebuilt a year ago, not the P.S., so my Raxles axle is still GTG.

Last edited by VincenzaV; January 4th, 2018 at 17:38.
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Old January 2nd, 2018, 15:24   #2
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Sounds like a CV joint to me. Now which one.... can you hear it more when turning one way or the other?
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Old January 2nd, 2018, 16:52   #3
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It SEEMS like when I did steering lock turns in a big parking lot-I turned the steering wheel to the right (doing circle in the lot), I detected it more. Don't know if that means if it is the DS or PS.
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Old January 2nd, 2018, 17:29   #4
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Bad inner CV joints tend to make crunching noises with significant changes in torque (accelerating or decelerating). Bad outers are more vocal when turning the steering wheel.

Wheel bearing make growling noises and mainly only at speed: more when turning away from the wheel whose bearing is bad.

That the noise didn't exist before the brake work makes me want to think that there could be something in the brakes. If the rotors don't get square to the hubs (rust, dirt etc.) then that could cause the wheel to wobble and likely cause some increasing vibrations and noises at speed. Sticking calipers (dry pins) can also cause similar things. I'd recommend reassessing that brake work.
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Old January 2nd, 2018, 17:29   #5
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Probably the CV axle. If you lock the wheel to one side or the other and back up the car or drive forward and it clicks or thumps, yea that’s 99.9% CV axle issue.

Can you do me a favor?
I know it seems like a too obvious to be true or a dumb idea but take it from someone who has had this issue before. Check your wheel studs and the wheel its self. Check the wheel for an oval shape to the holes for the wheel studs and check that the studs do not have any amount of paint or powder coat on the cone part. I have had issues with wheel studs and nuts before. This happened to me 2 times. Under brake or gas it goes away but then comes back when the force on the car is only rolling force. Got out of car and checked, yep front right wheel has loos studs and one was about to fall out.
Under hard, and I mean HARD braking the heat can get hot enough to get the powder coat or clear coat to get soft, this changed the clapping pressure on the studs/nuts and will get them to back out. The fix is the clean the powder coat or clear coat out from where the studs sit. It’s probably not your issue but its 100% free and takes all of 10 minutes to check.
I would say that your brake rotor might be warped though. Easy way to tell is to put the old rotor back on. Had this happen to 4 separate sets of OEM drums on the ford escape I have. Same symptoms too aside from the locking the wheel and moving the car.
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Old January 2nd, 2018, 17:31   #6
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put blue lock tight on the axle nut too, they have a bad time staying put. VW recalled a huge line of those nuts a few years back.
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Old January 2nd, 2018, 17:34   #7
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Do some power braking while turning left and right. Have someone stand near he car as you do this. Bad c/v joints are easy to find if this is it. Also have you checked the tires.
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Old January 2nd, 2018, 17:43   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mongler98 View Post
Got out of car and checked, yep front right wheel has loos studs and one was about to fall out.
Under hard, and I mean HARD braking the heat can get hot enough to get the powder coat or clear coat to get soft, this changed the clapping pressure on the studs/nuts and will get them to back out. The fix is the clean the powder coat or clear coat out from where the studs sit. Itís probably not your issue but its 100% free and takes all of 10 minutes to check.
I would say that your brake rotor might be warped though. Easy way to tell is to put the old rotor back on. Had this happen to 4 separate sets of OEM drums on the ford escape I have. Same symptoms too aside from the locking the wheel and moving the car.
These cars do not have studs, they have wheel bolts. OP hasn't changed wheels, in which case it's highly unlikely that there's anything that can "settle" in with them. For sure, one should check for loose wheel bolts: I was going to mention this but it seemed like it might be taken wrongly.

A warped rotor is possible. DOA. OP, what rotors did you get?

Did you use break-in procedures on your brakes?
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Old January 2nd, 2018, 18:29   #9
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I bought VW rotors and pads from the VW dealer here. NOT the "economy" version either.

I replaced the caliber slides and slide bushings with new, regressed with brake grease.

My Bentley did not mention a break in procedure. Unless I missed it? I've just been driving "normal" around town. Is that bad?

I'll check the CV's tomorrow.

Last edited by VincenzaV; January 2nd, 2018 at 19:13.
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Old January 2nd, 2018, 21:25   #10
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Studs = bolts i always thought.
amazon, says bolts, autozone says studs, wheelsupport.com says stud/bolt so i guess its where y our from. I'm from an area where studs come from, i guess your in a area where people bolt when the coppers show up!
You dont race much do you? this is actually a common issue that stock wheels have over race wheels. I read it in a Porsche magazine and thought yea right, only on supper cars, then it happend to me twice. Melted powdercoat on the stock wheels and on my axis wheels melted clear coat, well soft enough. you will know when you take the STUDS off. I was lucky that the first time the wheel did not come off and that the second time i only had the tire come off but it was almost not moving and just kinked to the side and did not drop the car, messed the fender up bad though.
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Old January 2nd, 2018, 21:30   #11
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btw, brake in for normal (most pads) get it up to 20mph and get hard on the brakes 3 times, then 5 times at 30mph but never fully stop and do it as fast as possible to keep the heat and drive the car for 10 minutes to get them cool but never fully stopping so go out on a country road.
On Hawks HPS pads brake in is, and i quote
"After installing new brake pads, make 6-to-10 stops from approximately 30-35 MPH applying moderate pressure. Make an additional 2-to-3 hard stops from approximately 40-45 MPH. Allow at least 15 minutes for the brake system to cool down. After step 4 is completed, your new Hawk Performance brake pads are ready for use." I have never had success with this procedure and i contacted hawks directly and the rep on the phone said that if your using any slotted or cross drilled rotors you need to go up to 65pmh and down to 10 as fast as you can brake with out skidding 5 times due to the excess cooling of the rotor.
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Old January 3rd, 2018, 09:56   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mongler98 View Post
Studs = bolts i always thought.
And you'd be wrong.

OP:

While Bentley may not specify a break-in procedure the parts manufacturers can and mostly do. I use Zimmerman rotors and Zimmerman provides a break-in procedure. The point of the procedure is to lay an even amount of brake material on the rotor surface. While I'm sure that one can get by without performing any break-in procedure it's not going to provide as good as results. All my brakes are excellent, and I attribute that to good parts and performing the specified break-in procedure.

I doubt that breaking-in or not has anything to do with the problems that you're having. BUT, the mating surface of the rotors to hubs is important, as is the wheels to the rotors. If any of these result in a non-flush fitting then you're going to get a wobble, a wobble that can make noise, cause vibrations and can feel like a warped rotor.
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Old January 3rd, 2018, 09:56   #13
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I have stock steel 15" wheels, so no powder coat.

I dropped the car off to the local German car mechanic to have them see if they can figure out what the problem is. I'll let you know what they say.

Uh-oh-I agree. Break in-or not isn't the cause here. The rotor's surface is evenly wearing (as far as I can see with two days of use). I dropped the car off to the local German car mechanic. We'll see what they say. It might not be until tomorrow morning till they can get to it. It's a pretty highly regarded place here in my city. Always busy.

Last edited by VincenzaV; January 3rd, 2018 at 09:59.
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Old January 4th, 2018, 17:36   #14
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The local German mechanics said it is my PS axle CV joint that is bad. Makes sense from what I heard/experienced with it.

I ACTUALLY replaced the D.S. axle a year ago with the Raxles, NOT the P.S. as I wrote (found my old receipt and emails to Raxles), so the other factory axle CV joint failed at 203K miles.

I just ordered the PS one so both axle CV joints will be Raxles now.

Thanks for the help!!!
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Old January 5th, 2018, 08:12   #15
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Ha! You threw us off!

Glad that you have direction on this.
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