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Old December 31st, 2017, 08:25   #1
Thunder Chicken
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Default louder than normal 'dieseling' sound

Hi folks. Im a long time reader, of the fourms, don't post too much as I don't have anything to smart to add! Learned a fair bit about TDI's, i've had VW's for 15 years now.....
Currently I have a '12 wagon. Recently had the VW emissions fix, then deleted everything and Stage 2 Malone tune installed. (I had been deleted and stage 2 before the VW fix also FWIW)
At certian RPMs, say 1800-2200, with lower throttle as in putting through town, i have a noticeable 'dieseling, knocking' noise, and it feels like a loss of power. \idle sorta seems a bit rougher than normal but hard to tell. Other RPM's car is completely normal.Step on'er and all is fine. No noticeable smoke. Car starts fine also. I was wondering where to begin looking for problems. I have VCDS. I live in the boonies and have no VW guru garages within 500km so i'm learning on my own! Its -30 here at the moment so i'm not working outside much....
I have a log of to check the injectors....
Group 013
0.07 mg/str Inj. Quantity
0.12 mg/str Inj. Quantity
-0.45 mg/str Inj. Quantity
0.19 mg/str Inj. Quantity

then again....
Group 013
0.24 mg/str Inj. Quantity
0.02 mg/str Inj. Quantity
-0.31 mg/str Inj. Quantity
0.00 mg/str Inj. Quantity

15:11:45 Group 004
805 /min RPM
6.5 įBTDC Ign. Timing
490.0 (no units)
320.0 bar Pressure

15:11:45 Group 002
805 /min RPM
0.0 % Load
0 01 0 Bin. Bits
52.2įC Temperature

once it warms up, i figured id check the wiring harness.....

A bit more background info.....
After the VW emissions fix, the delete was redone, new timing belt done (by a good VW mechanic) but the tune was installed without the DPF deleted by mistake. I did not realize this and drove 5 hours, part way through it went into a regen and smoked like a big ship. Eventually went into limp mode. A few hours up the highway was another tuner who reinstalled the correct tune for us and all seemed well at the time. I noticed this new noise a few days and a few thousand km later so i hope its unrelated. Car has 194,000km.....
I guess I want to make sure the car is ok to drive if i have to...last thing i need to do is burn a piston or worse.
What else should I check? maybe timing belt loosened off? The serpentine belt looks fine....I always run conditioner in my fuel, put in some Methyl Hydrate.....the fuel filter was also just changed......
Ill swap #3 injector to a new hole and see if the numbers move with it but im not sure if its even outta spec....
Thanks for any help!
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Old December 31st, 2017, 09:31   #2
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They sound that way when it is cold. When it heats up, the noise goes to normal.
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Old December 31st, 2017, 10:20   #3
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Hi up there!!
Cold here too, -29*F this morning at home. Not going anywhere however as I have the flu.
I'm not very into the newer CR type injection system engines but (if anything somewhat like my old ALH VE types, or not?) as you know they make more diesel clatter when they are cold as the timing advances and ignition happens a bit earlier. Fuel type and quality also plays with the clatter/noise and depending on how Ontario "winterizes" fuel for those temps and/or you may have "blend" your own, not sure. An additive may help quiet things down a bit depending on the flavor selected, or what's available. (Never buy diesel fuel in Ontario on our trips up near Dryden. I usually use the gas Suburban and even if I take the VW I have more than enough range to round trip it back home w/o fueling where it's much more costly).
Supposed to warm up to more "normal" cold winter temps in a week or so. Keep tabs on it and try to listen for a difference.
Do the CR's regen in the cold? Do they make any different "sounds" during the process?
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Old December 31st, 2017, 11:02   #4
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The cold has never made the engine have this noise or feeling ever before. Ive had this car since new, and two other diesels before it, this is a new noise and feeling to me.
The first day i noticed this, it was only -12c, and the car was warmed up from a 1 hr drive. Car up to temp or not, and OAT make no difference to this noise.....like i mentioned, its almost like the car is lower on power, stuttering a bit if you will, at that RPM, but not all the time, and not while it 'goes through' that rpm under power, just while cruising at a low throttle in that narrow rpm range.
Im well used to the clattering in -40, this is definitely not it!!
I dont remember what a regen sounded like in the cold, but thats not a problem on this one anymore
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Old December 31st, 2017, 11:28   #5
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I'd try adding some anti-gel additive or D1 to the fuel tank. Rail pressure could be dropping if the filters are getting restricted by wax.
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Old December 31st, 2017, 12:48   #6
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Is/has cam wear been an issue on any of these like it was on some PD's? They made "noise" and low(er) power when affected.
I've been using some Lucas Anti Gell the last couple tanks and don't know how effective it is for that (best not to find out!), but it definitely made the old ALH Jetta quieter in the cold.
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Old January 1st, 2018, 09:57   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbobrick240 View Post
I'd try adding some anti-gel additive or D1 to the fuel tank. Rail pressure could be dropping if the filters are getting restricted by wax.


I think turbobrick is on the right track, I'll try his suggestions and report back.


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Old January 1st, 2018, 10:14   #8
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Thanks for the replies so far.....
I always run conditioner, every tank, year round. Currently have Kleen-flo conditioner, usually use powermaster but it all works from experience. Our Diesel is winter fuel up here regardless, no worries about that. I’ve also added methyl hydrate......
This noise/ shutter. Is only at certain rpm/ power settings, not all the time. Is there any way to check rail pressure with VCDS, and what should it be?
There’s another thread in the mk6 golf section with guys having the exact same symptoms, maybe I’ve described it slightly different,
Does anyone see anything wrong with the inj qtys I posted? Is there any harm in driving if an injector is bad, or going bad?
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Old January 1st, 2018, 11:16   #9
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Im going to follow this to see what you ever find out, if you post a follow up and/or solution.
Also would like to know more about the avatar pic. Twin Otter??
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2003 Jetta GLS Black w/leather (New Project Car) fixer-upper w/broken TB
2004 Cadillac SLS (wife's)
1999 GMC Suburban (It's MN-you need one)
197? Shibura 2cyl diesel 4WD tractor-loader/brushhog (very handy unit)
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Old January 1st, 2018, 15:22   #10
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Let her warm up and took for a good drive today. Lots of conditioner in fuel, lots of methyl hydrate. Same symptoms, however the change in engine sound/hesitation was only apparent in 1st-2nd gear near 2000rpm this trip out.
Maybe some water still working it’s way through the system? I’ll report back in a few days after a few 100km commutes to work.
Jettawreck, ya that's a twin otter, on amphib waterbombing floats. The province of Ontario has 5 of them for forest fire management, we have 2 here in Dryden, on wheels the last few years only, but I do get to splash around in the amphib a bit every summer
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Old January 1st, 2018, 15:45   #11
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Ah ha!!! the VCDS log shows the BTDC timing making quite a change whenever the 'noise' comes on. The timing jumps from a very low or negative number, to a value near 15' BTDC. If i could figure out how to upload the spreadsheet, i would.
time-rpm-BTDC
326.2 2139 -1.9
326.61 2139 0
327 2139 -0.6
327.4 2139 -0.9
327.77 2162 -1.9
328.16 2162 -1.6
328.81 2208 15.8
329.2 2231 1.2
329.6 2254 16.1
329.99 2300 5.3
330.38 2323 16.1
330.77 2346 9.9
331.17 2346 16.1
331.56 2369 16.4
331.94 2369 15.8
332.33 2346 16.4
332.72 2346 16.1
333.11 2346 16.1
333.5 2300 16.1
333.89 2277 16.1
334.29 2208 15.5
334.68 2185 14.6
335.05 2139 15.2
335.44 2093 15.2
335.83 2047 14.9
336.22 2024 14.9
336.6 1978 15.2
337 1955 15.2
337.39 1955 15.5
337.79 1955 8.7
338.17 1978 3.1
338.58 2001 2.2
338.97 2024 -1.6
could this be it?! And why........ill post an update later this week as we learn more.
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Old January 1st, 2018, 16:02   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunder Chicken View Post
Let her warm up and took for a good drive today. Lots of conditioner in fuel, lots of methyl hydrate. Same symptoms, however the change in engine sound/hesitation was only apparent in 1st-2nd gear near 2000rpm this trip out.
Maybe some water still working itís way through the system? Iíll report back in a few days after a few 100km commutes to work.
Jettawreck, ya that's a twin otter, on amphib waterbombing floats. The province of Ontario has 5 of them for forest fire management, we have 2 here in Dryden, on wheels the last few years only, but I do get to splash around in the amphib a bit every summer
I used to live in Dryden a few years back, spent a lot of time in the Sioux, Red Lake, Thunder Bay and all the other wonderful fire bases further north.
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Old January 1st, 2018, 16:30   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunder Chicken View Post
Thanks for the replies so far.....
I always run conditioner, every tank, year round. Currently have Kleen-flo conditioner, usually use powermaster but it all works from experience. Our Diesel is winter fuel up here regardless, no worries about that. Iíve also added methyl hydrate......
This noise/ shutter. Is only at certain rpm/ power settings, not all the time. Is there any way to check rail pressure with VCDS, and what should it be?
Thereís another thread in the mk6 golf section with guys having the exact same symptoms, maybe Iíve described it slightly different,
Does anyone see anything wrong with the inj qtys I posted? Is there any harm in driving if an injector is bad, or going bad?
Probably a long shot but maybe you're adding too much additives....don't know if I would use methyl hydrate in a diesel.
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Old January 1st, 2018, 16:51   #14
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Drive more, worry less.
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Old January 1st, 2018, 18:45   #15
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Won't get up near Dryden for fishing for about a month, but making Mine Center in a couple weeks.
Impressive aircraft, the Twin Otter.
Nice work making the link on the timing deviations and your "noise". Now for a cause. Water, or anything non-lubricating, in a HPFP system isn't a good thing from what I know about those.
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2003 Jetta GLS Black w/leather (New Project Car) fixer-upper w/broken TB
2004 Cadillac SLS (wife's)
1999 GMC Suburban (It's MN-you need one)
197? Shibura 2cyl diesel 4WD tractor-loader/brushhog (very handy unit)
196? International TD340 Dozer-w/Drott 4-in-1 bucket/back ripper attachment
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