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Old December 27th, 2017, 19:52   #31
MichaelB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyBees View Post
MichaelB, did you read all of my posts?

Did you see where others mentioned farmers and their Tractors?

It ain't here we go again, it's an idea to consider since the car appears to be somewhere a mile away from the OPs home on the side of the road and he said no heated garage is available.

I bet I could have it running right there on the side of the road in less than hour!

(bio-diesel and temps in the teens........ no rocket science here)

My bet still stands,,,
Yeah, I read all the posts starting at the beginning ..from start a fire under the car to whatever. Redneck fixes Did you read all the posts? I say This is a person's car, not a piece of heavy equipment and not a tractor. No rocket science just common sense. You may be able to get it started with your methods but if it is not a life or death situation what damage might be incurred? Just get it going and worry about the consequences later eh?
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Old December 27th, 2017, 20:15   #32
MichaelB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyBees View Post
MichaelB, did you read all of my post?

Did you see where others mentioned farmers and their Tractors?

Yes I did he ain't no farmer and his car ain't no tractor

I bet I could have it running right there on the side of the road in less than hour!
Yep just whip out a blow torch and start warming things up
We all carry one of those along in our car eh?

(bio-diesel and temps in the teens........ no rocket science here)

My bet still stands,,,
Who is betting besides you?
More thoughts.

Last edited by MichaelB; December 27th, 2017 at 20:27.
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Old December 27th, 2017, 20:43   #33
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Originally Posted by turbobrick240 View Post
That's how I thaw out the hydraulics on my tractor when water gets into the system. I use a propane burner though. Might not be a great idea for a car parked on the side of the street .
Andy Bees thinks it is!
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Old December 27th, 2017, 20:53   #34
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Thanks. everyone. Not sure I'm up for the propane torch idea, but at least it made me laugh! It "melted" in a warm garage and is now running. I do think it was crystals from partially frozen bio, clogging the fuel filter. Because it is still very cold I'm going to siphon about 5 gallons out, and fill with regular diesel, which should get me to 20% or less bio (and no more bio until spring! Though I do have a cool 50 gallon drum of 100% bio in the garage, and a great love for that fuel. I was already using additives, but I will try Powerservice. Someone told me they used 911, even though it says it is just for after gelling. I'm also going to get a "heat blanket" for the engine compartment and a magnet fuel tank heater, to take care of my unheated garage problem. Hopefully this is the last breakdown for the winter. And I'm going to carry a spare fuel filter for emergencies!

Last edited by fbio; December 27th, 2017 at 21:01.
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Old December 27th, 2017, 21:16   #35
MichaelB
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I'm also going to get a "heat blanket" for the engine compartment and a magnet fuel tank heater, to take care of my unheated garage problem.
Don't waste your money or your time just run winterized pump fuel and forgetaboutit!
Great to hear you solved your problem without fire.
Have a Happy New Year and welcome to the upper midwest.
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Old December 27th, 2017, 21:46   #36
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If it happens again it is handy to have an electric oil filled space heater (if youre close enough to plug in) or a blow dryer and wrap the engine bay with a tarp. You might be ok on b20, but its not worth the risk imo. Wait until springtime unless you dont mind all the hassle.
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Old December 27th, 2017, 23:08   #37
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Easiest to just buy the winterized pump diesel during periods of cold weather.

But, to play devils advocate- a 50/50 blend of soy or canola/rapeseed based bio and kerosene/D1 has a cloud point of -7 F. A B25 blend of 1 part soy bio, 1 part K1/D1, and 2 parts winterized pump diesel should have a cloud point of -15 F or better. It would be more of a hassle for sure, but you could probably get away with it if you really wanted to tap into that barrel (which may be gelled solid). Never a bad idea to have a bottle of the power service 911 treatment in the trunk when sub zero temps strike.
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Old December 28th, 2017, 02:10   #38
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Another thought here, since straight diesel (without any bio) is unobtainium in Illinois, what about running a double dose of Howe's antigel or comparable for the next 2 tanks then using the recommended dose afterwards? Also, you could probably continue running 50% bio if you always double dosed your tank with antigel...

P.S. I would never light a fire under an engine unless it's life or death situation...
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Old December 28th, 2017, 06:40   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fbio View Post
Thanks. everyone. Not sure I'm up for the propane torch idea, but at least it made me laugh! It "melted" in a warm garage and is now running. I do think it was crystals from partially frozen bio, clogging the fuel filter. Because it is still very cold I'm going to siphon about 5 gallons out, and fill with regular diesel, which should get me to 20% or less bio (and no more bio until spring! Though I do have a cool 50 gallon drum of 100% bio in the garage, and a great love for that fuel. I was already using additives, but I will try Powerservice. Someone told me they used 911, even though it says it is just for after gelling. I'm also going to get a "heat blanket" for the engine compartment and a magnet fuel tank heater, to take care of my unheated garage problem. Hopefully this is the last breakdown for the winter. And I'm going to carry a spare fuel filter for emergencies!
Fuel tank is plastic material, so magnet heater on the tank isn't going to work very well....
911 is just no a gelling situation. Its solution isn't very good for wear on injection components. Use only in emergency. PowerService white bottle formula for cold weather additive, Howes, Lucas, Stanadyne, etc. They all make claims about how they work, many of the threories and methods to fuel treatment vary considerably.
I'm running Holiday pump fuel with (currently) a double dose of additive in very low temps. Fresh fuel and additive you shouldn't have any (future) problems.
I've considered insulating my fuel lines from tank to IP and spraying a layer of closed cell foam onto the bottom of the fuel tank, but never gotten around to it yet (or probably ever will at this point).
I guess there have been plenty enough suggestions and since it's up and running I'm sure going forward it's just another diesel life lesson.
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Last edited by jettawreck; December 28th, 2017 at 06:57.
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Old December 28th, 2017, 08:22   #40
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Meijer's has or had non-bio diesel fuel. The one by me used to have a separate pump just for karosine, but I have not been there in years. The pumps had too much pressure causing lots of foam.
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Old December 28th, 2017, 12:40   #41
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Also, you could probably continue running 50% bio if you always double dosed your tank with antigel...
A variety of fuel additives for diesel and biodiesel are commercially available to improve the cold flow properties. Dunn et al. (1996) studied the effects of 12 cold flow additives for petroleum diesel on the cold flow behavior of biodiesel. They concluded that the additives significantly improved the PP of diesel/biodiesel blends but did not affect the CP greatly. Many additives contain some proprietary components such as copolymers of ethylene, vinyl acetate, or other olefin-ester copolymers. Because of these proprietary compounds, the impact of cold flow additives on biodiesel from different types of feedstock such as canola, mustard, and used vegetable oil needs to be determined experimentally.
University of Idaho scientists studied the effects of four commercially available cold flow additives on biodiesel made from soy oil, mustard oil, and used vegetable oil. Of these three types of biodiesel, mustard biodiesel responded best to the additives. Still, the researchers found that the additives did not work as well for biodiesel as for petro-diesel. The average reduction in CP and PP for 100% mustard biodiesel was 0.3C and 7.2C, respectively. However, the additives reduced the PP of petroleum diesel by at least 16C, to below -36C in all cases studied (Shrestha et al., 2008).
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Old December 28th, 2017, 14:03   #42
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Originally Posted by MichaelB View Post
A variety of fuel additives for diesel and biodiesel are commercially available to improve the cold flow properties. Dunn et al. (1996) studied the effects of 12 cold flow additives for petroleum diesel on the cold flow behavior of biodiesel. They concluded that the additives significantly improved the PP of diesel/biodiesel blends but did not affect the CP greatly. Many additives contain some proprietary components such as copolymers of ethylene, vinyl acetate, or other olefin-ester copolymers. Because of these proprietary compounds, the impact of cold flow additives on biodiesel from different types of feedstock such as canola, mustard, and used vegetable oil needs to be determined experimentally.
University of Idaho scientists studied the effects of four commercially available cold flow additives on biodiesel made from soy oil, mustard oil, and used vegetable oil. Of these three types of biodiesel, mustard biodiesel responded best to the additives. Still, the researchers found that the additives did not work as well for biodiesel as for petro-diesel. The average reduction in CP and PP for 100% mustard biodiesel was 0.3C and 7.2C, respectively. However, the additives reduced the PP of petroleum diesel by at least 16C, to below -36C in all cases studied (Shrestha et al., 2008).
Learn something new everyday! Thanks!
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Old December 28th, 2017, 14:47   #43
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The anti-gel additives might not help much with pure B100, but they do help quite a bit with something like a B25 or B20 blend.
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Old December 28th, 2017, 15:36   #44
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The anti-gel additives might not help much with pure B100, but they do help quite a bit with something like a B25 or B20 blend.
The op's gelled/frozen blend was b50. That being said he moved to Illinois where pump fuel is probably b11 so if he purchased pump fuel to dilute the b50 in his tank........well what can I say? What is the actual amount of bio in his tank? He is talkin' fuel tank heaters/filter heaters. Best bet is to run out the fuel if his car will run in the conditions we in the upper midwest are suffering under and forget the b100 that he has stashed until next summer. To me that is the best advice. All his heated engine blankets and filter heaters won't be worth a pinch 0 $hit when driving the car in sub-zero weather. Nuff said eh?

Last edited by MichaelB; December 28th, 2017 at 15:46.
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Old December 28th, 2017, 15:50   #45
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Yeah, personally I'd leave it for summer use. It's probably a barrel of bio-jello sitting in his unheated garage anyhow.

http://biodiesel.org/using-biodiesel...-weather-guide

Last edited by turbobrick240; December 28th, 2017 at 15:55.
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