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TDI Power Enhancements Discussions about increasing the power of your TDI engine. i.e. chips, injectors, powerboxes, clutches, etc. Handling, suspensions, wheels, type discussion should be put into the "Upgrades (non TDI Engine related)" forum. Non TDI vehicle related postings will be moved or removed. Please note the Performance Disclaimer.

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Old December 25th, 2017, 23:33   #1
MAXRPM
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Default Any suggestion on a plug play turbo 1.9 alh

Built a 1.9 alh, rosten rods, asv pistons, ported head, 11m pump,, I'd like to try something in between gt17/22 and 2260vk, it would be nice to have a turbo that is plug and play without upgrading down pipe and exhaust, I would not like to have a choking egt turbo like the 17/22 (emp),i do not want to go crazy with a huge turbo either, cause my weakest link would be the tranny (stock gears) any advise on a turbo that would spool with very little lag

Thxs ahead
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I dynoed at 275HP at LCD back then, now 2.0 TDI with the real bolt ons, HP and TQ who knows???
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Old December 26th, 2017, 03:13   #2
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is say a gt1749 vb with 11 blade wheel. simple and effective or a gt 2052 and get decant billet wheel fitted.. the gt2056 (know as 1856 hybrid) are laggy as **** ime.. check x man turbos on fb.. he might have something your looking for or make one up,(tell him malcolm dc scott sent you ) , if you dont want to go that route you not going to find 'bolt' on as such mate , gtb and gtd require a fair bit more work to plumb in and lot more expensive. xman sells; gtb from 1749 to 2572 welded on cast and full kits with parts need to fit but you looking at good grand for kit then fitting a proper custom map with.. it all adds up.
id al least add a decat to help with egts and smic cooler from 1.8t or pd130, it will be straight swap and core it much thicker..(might need some 57-51 bits of hose but that it) also consider putting a vent in the wheel arch on cooler side to increase air flow though it.. it worked well on my old mapped pd130- bora till i got fmic

Last edited by gmo; December 26th, 2017 at 03:22.
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Old December 26th, 2017, 08:31   #3
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unfortunately the vnt17 based turbos (17/22 or 1749vb) have the largest exhaust housing for the plug and play options..
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Old December 26th, 2017, 09:00   #4
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I have a gt2052 and it’s in no way plug and play. 100% total fab work has to be done to make it fit properly

Ok so let’s go down the road of what you want to do. You want enough power that you don’t blow the transmission up but you obviously are building a platform that will put out 300HP+.

So you are going to have to decide. Do you want HUGE power? Or do you want high end, normal power. Sounds to me like you are only interested in bolt on rather than any extensive fab.

I suggest going with a 17/22 or some other smaller but great turbos. Your concern with EGTs is legit ad you’re going to have that as your main bottle neck with the 11mm IP. Go with big nozzles 520 or 764's

For EGT with minimal lag, you are going to need to run water injection and a larger cam

The cam will give you an easy 100*F across the board and the water will do about 100-200*F at high end rpm. The best way to DIY a water injection and in my opinion the only way to do it on a custom build for EGT control is this.
1x thermo probe and 2x multimeter gauges from Auber.
Get a 100PSI pump from amazon and some fittings and 2 solenoids. The Auber gauges have a relay in them that can be set to any value on and off. Set the first gauge relay parameters to ON at 1300*F and off at 950*F and set the second gauge at ON at 1450*F and off at 950*F. Now wire up the pump and the 1st solenoid to the 1st relay and the second solenoid to the 2nd relay. The first solenoid goes to the primary (pre turbo water injection nozzle right at the inlet of the turbo. and the 2nd solenoid goes to the 2nd nozzle POST turbo at a smaller orifice. You also need a Boost gauge with a 3 bar Map from Auber. This is what those 1st 2 relays go into. On at 14.5PSI and off at 10PSI. This is important so that you only inject water when you’re at boost or higher. I run this set up at 32PSI and I’ll send you a list of parts I built this with. I don’t have a write up as it’s not very typical but this took my .764 at 1.4IQ with Malone stage 6 custom tune at 32PSI from 1600*F not even at FULL power to about 1520*F and I can’t get it to go any higher in EGT. It took a lot of tuning with different orifices and 3 different pumps to get it to work right but it’s awesome. Just water, no water meth. Cost me $120 for the Water system and another $70 in gauges. Vs the snow systems for $700 that don’t even work off EGT, only PSI.
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Old December 26th, 2017, 09:05   #5
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Engine Will go in a car that got EJ bigger SMIC, if I go with 17/49 might as well go with 17/22, so you also are saying 20/52 plug and play with a billet, is this turbo Laggy? I find the 2260vk not laggy (never like vent 15 though, pls give me a link or contact to this seller so i could discuss options here I'd really appriciated
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1/4 mile run----13.98 sec. @ 105.37 mph 8 years ago
I dynoed at 275HP at LCD back then, now 2.0 TDI with the real bolt ons, HP and TQ who knows???
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Old December 26th, 2017, 09:23   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mongler98 View Post
I have a gt2052 and itís in no way plug and play. 100% total fab work has to be done to make it fit properly

Ok so letís go down the road of what you want to do. You want enough power that you donít blow the transmission up but you obviously are building a platform that will put out 300HP+.

So you are going to have to decide. Do you want HUGE power? Or do you want high end, normal power. Sounds to me like you are only interested in bolt on rather than any extensive fab.

I suggest going with a 17/22 or some other smaller but great turbos. Your concern with EGTs is legit ad youíre going to have that as your main bottle neck with the 11mm IP. Go with big nozzles 520 or 764's

For EGT with minimal lag, you are going to need to run water injection and a larger cam

The cam will give you an easy 100*F across the board and the water will do about 100-200*F at high end rpm. The best way to DIY a water injection and in my opinion the only way to do it on a custom build for EGT control is this.
1x thermo probe and 2x multimeter gauges from Auber.
Get a 100PSI pump from amazon and some fittings and 2 solenoids. The Auber gauges have a relay in them that can be set to any value on and off. Set the first gauge relay parameters to ON at 1300*F and off at 950*F and set the second gauge at ON at 1450*F and off at 950*F. Now wire up the pump and the 1st solenoid to the 1st relay and the second solenoid to the 2nd relay. The first solenoid goes to the primary (pre turbo water injection nozzle right at the inlet of the turbo. and the 2nd solenoid goes to the 2nd nozzle POST turbo at a smaller orifice. You also need a Boost gauge with a 3 bar Map from Auber. This is what those 1st 2 relays go into. On at 14.5PSI and off at 10PSI. This is important so that you only inject water when youíre at boost or higher. I run this set up at 32PSI and Iíll send you a list of parts I built this with. I donít have a write up as itís not very typical but this took my .764 at 1.4IQ with Malone stage 6 custom tune at 32PSI from 1600*F not even at FULL power to about 1520*F and I canít get it to go any higher in EGT. It took a lot of tuning with different orifices and 3 different pumps to get it to work right but itís awesome. Just water, no water meth. Cost me $120 for the Water system and another $70 in gauges. Vs the snow systems for $700 that donít even work off EGT, only PSI.
Im not new into mods fyi, i already got over 300hp golf with 2260vk, so that route i do not want to go, also in the past
I already maxed out the 17/22 at 220hp, throwing everything at it including W/M, I'm looking at 240-250hp, reliable with plug and play turbo, I might cryo tranny gears thats about it, but i do not want to go crazy like my golf, engine will support that kind of power but not the tranny.
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1/4 mile run----13.98 sec. @ 105.37 mph 8 years ago
I dynoed at 275HP at LCD back then, now 2.0 TDI with the real bolt ons, HP and TQ who knows???
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Old December 26th, 2017, 09:43   #7
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than why upgrade the stock internals? they can handle 250HP with 15PSI. My gt2052 does not produce much PSI until rmps are at 2400. this sucks for a daily but is great for what im going for. my future upgrade is a belt driven compound addition so ill be running 14PSI at 1,100 rpm and hopefully i can get into the 40psi range at full boost.
larger turbo's means more lag. BTW lag refers to the time between rpm's when shifting, we are technically talking about turbo latency or the time it takes from idle to get full boost.
In any case not sure what you want. if you just want to get more boost or get more out of your turbo or go larger, i would try adding a boost control valve and upping the boost first. with your set up you could also run propane injection!

the 2052 is not plug and play. you need a custom downpipe and exhasut manifold. Check out my build with my gt2052
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=387812

FYI i hate the manifold i got for it as its geometry and port size do not flow nicely but it was a learning curve for me at the time.
My O2J is holding up at my power but its on its way out. Does it smoke at all? if it does not, up the fuel with larger nozzles and a upgrade on your fuel pump with a walbor and a 12 row fuel cooler and larger lines. If your not smoking, you can go further with more fuel and then tune more to get it back down to no smoke. NOS would be a good option if you have smoke at all. I dont like big turbos do to (Lag). Maybe more tune? A cam also. What cam are you running?

Last edited by Mongler98; December 26th, 2017 at 09:47.
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Old December 26th, 2017, 10:29   #8
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1756 would probably be the way to go, really happy with the spool on them and they'll take a ton of abuse.
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Old December 26th, 2017, 12:34   #9
gmo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MAXRPM View Post
Engine Will go in a car that got EJ bigger SMIC, if I go with 17/49 might as well go with 17/22, so you also are saying 20/52 plug and play with a billet, is this turbo Laggy? I find the 2260vk not laggy (never like vent 15 though, pls give me a link or contact to this seller so i could discuss options here I'd really appriciated
search... x man turbos on face book , if you send him you turbo he'll fit it with 56mm billet if you wish.. good for near 260 on p130 injector so with room for .. he has choice of a few .. and weld it to you stock mani and clock housing to suit pipe work..
and yes its quite quite laggy with 56mm wheel. 2052 welded on you mani with billet 11 bade should be good for 220 and 340lb wityh 130 injectors
gt1856 dyno
https://scontent.fman2-2.fna.fbcdn.n...8d&oe=5AB0AAFB
His page.. he not the wolds best turbo builder but donst lot of custom stuff and i ran 33 psi though his gt1749 mfs 11 for about 30k and not a flicker of trouble ,
https://www.facebook.com/XMan-Turbos-264464090377661/

Last edited by gmo; December 26th, 2017 at 13:18.
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Old December 26th, 2017, 12:42   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Owain@malonetuning View Post
1756 would probably be the way to go, really happy with the spool on them and they'll take a ton of abuse.
how far you pushing it mate . boost, uprated injectors .. power figure?
thanks
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Old December 26th, 2017, 12:45   #11
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We tune a fair number of them, 1.9-2.1 bar is where they seem to be happy. ~220bhp or so is what they'll pump out, top end is a lot better than the VNT17 and 17/22s. Of course you can push them a bit harder but that's a reliable point.
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Last edited by Owain@malonetuning; December 26th, 2017 at 12:52.
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Old December 26th, 2017, 12:53   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mongler98 View Post
than why upgrade the stock internals? they can handle 250HP with 15PSI. My gt2052 does not produce much PSI until rmps are at 2400. this sucks for a daily but is great for what im going for. my future upgrade is a belt driven compound addition so ill be running 14PSI at 1,100 rpm and hopefully i can get into the 40psi range at full boost.
larger turbo's means more lag. BTW lag refers to the time between rpm's when shifting, we are technically talking about turbo latency or the time it takes from idle to get full boost.
In any case not sure what you want. if you just want to get more boost or get more out of your turbo or go larger, i would try adding a boost control valve and upping the boost first. with your set up you could also run propane injection!

the 2052 is not plug and play. you need a custom downpipe and exhasut manifold. Check out my build with my gt2052
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=387812

FYI i hate the manifold i got for it as its geometry and port size do not flow nicely but it was a learning curve for me at the time.
My O2J is holding up at my power but its on its way out. Does it smoke at all? if it does not, up the fuel with larger nozzles and a upgrade on your fuel pump with a walbor and a 12 row fuel cooler and larger lines. If your not smoking, you can go further with more fuel and then tune more to get it back down to no smoke. NOS would be a good option if you have smoke at all. I dont like big turbos do to (Lag). Maybe more tune? A cam also. What cam are you running?

Thxs for your input but believe me ALH stock internals would NOT support 250HP you would bend rods, do not ask me why, 220hp with 17/22 bent mine, besides I said alh engine is already built with rosten rods and asv pistons, reason I would like to go with plug and play is because I got PP downpipe and do not want to $$ for another down pipe and exhaust,,, everything else I got lined up,,, got R520 injectors,, I just want a turbo that is plug and play bigger than 17/22 with not a whole lot of lag,,engine that I built would definitely go beyond 220hp with the right turbo


Owen@Malone tuning pls expand on the 1756, what kind of boost can you sustain with this turbo can you go 30? 17/22 you could boost up 26 all day long,,, is this a plug and play turbo? a how about lag?? and power ?
__________________
1/4 mile run----13.98 sec. @ 105.37 mph 8 years ago
I dynoed at 275HP at LCD back then, now 2.0 TDI with the real bolt ons, HP and TQ who knows???

Last edited by MAXRPM; December 26th, 2017 at 13:00.
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Old December 26th, 2017, 13:03   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Owain@malonetuning View Post
We tune a fair number of them, 1.9-2.1 bar is where they seem to be happy. ~220bhp or so is what they'll pump out, top end is a lot better than the VNT17 and 17/22s. Of course you can push them a bit harder but that's a reliable point.
so gtb .. cheers for input mate

so if i wanted a fast b road 250bhp gtb2056 with +80s would be better thasn gtb1756 and +50S,

im now tempted so sell my turbo dynamics md445 and get an diff and scrap md445 idea all together till i got coin for gtb or gtd set up
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Old December 26th, 2017, 13:15   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MAXRPM View Post
Thxs for your input but believe me ALH stock internals would NOT support 250HP you would bend rods, do not ask me why, 220hp with 17/22 bent mine, besides I said alh engine is already built with rosten rods and asv pistons, reason I would like to go with plug and play is because I got PP downpipe and do not want to $$ for another down pipe and exhaust,,, everything else I got lined up,,, got R520 injectors,, I just want a turbo that is plug and play bigger than 17/22 with not a whole lot of lag,,engine that I built would definitely go beyond 220hp with the right turbo


Owen@Malone tuning pls expand on the 1756, what kind of boost can you sustain with this turbo can you go 30? 17/22 you could boost up 26 all day long,,, is this a plug and play turbo? a how about lag?? and power ?
its torque not hp bend rods mate .. i just posted graph to show the figures is can put out that was on stock pd30 injectors to.
i have a md445 gt1756 for next build that still capable of 230 plus and 380lbs mate

its down the mapper to keep torque with engines safe limits. and smooth

a good choice is the gt1756.. lot of dyno graphs on xman page using the 56 and 52 on assortment on engines . might be worth having a look. not saying buy from him but might give idea of what you what, he got every bolt on and vw turbo going lol and if not he'll build it
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Old December 26th, 2017, 18:01   #15
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I am looking into 18/56 I believe not 100% sure, it is the same 17/22 honed to 18/56 can anyone elaborate on this turbo, supposed to be plug and play
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