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TDI 101 Got a simple/basic TDI question? Are you a newbie (new to the forums). Feel free to post your question here.

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Old December 27th, 2017, 14:02   #46
UhOh
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Yeah, as I'd figured- old info.

Goodyear only says to follow manufacturer's instructions.

Getting back to the reversing of the tread on the rears... Wouldn't this also affect side steerage? Big concern is having the rear of the vehicle slide out.

Stumbled across this page on what insurers see as causing most claims during the winter months (chances are, whatever you're guessing is likely going to be wrong):

https://www.safestreetsusa.com/whats...-surprise-you/
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Old December 27th, 2017, 19:28   #47
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From what I understand on generic all seasons is that direction just helps with water flow and nothing else. Now sport tires that are one direction, yea donít ever change them. the belt is made in a way to let the tire give more traction in corners and making them go in revers after 10's of thousands of miles (if you get that much out of sport tires) will make the wires stress and snap. Iíve seen a few of those but only ever on a sport tire with a wear rating of under 300, but I was just a tire and oil change GS when I worked at the shop so I have no acutely factual knowledge of why but thatís what I have gathered and seen and been told.
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Old December 28th, 2017, 08:57   #48
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Snow/mud gets squished out the sides,if it was reversed mud/snow would
get packed towards the center of the tread.
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Old December 28th, 2017, 12:28   #49
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Thank you all for your help. They got switched and I headed out of town right away. They work a thousand times better, (obviously) and had little trouble on any roads in my 1800km journey. Only problem is, I did get nearly Side swiped and run off the road up a curb and into a snowbank. Now my front right corner has a wicked rattle and practically no suspension. Had a quick look, and the strut and stabilizer link(both recently replaced) look fine, nothing else looks out of place so I guess I have to try and find a shop in the middle of nowhere to have a look at it before I leave again right after New Years.

Bright side? The tires had traction and a could stear it into the ditch instead of being creamed.

I giess you win some loose some.
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Old December 28th, 2017, 16:03   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1.9ZOOK View Post
Snow/mud gets squished out the sides,if it was reversed mud/snow would
get packed towards the center of the tread.
My theory is that on the back they only get braking force which in essence uses the tire in the traction direction it was designed to work.

I have felt noticeable differences on my motorcycle where you apply brakes separately front and rear with reversed traction direction.
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Old December 28th, 2017, 18:04   #51
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PDQ that is great thinking outside the box. When I read your first post about reversing the rotation on the rears I said to myself why didn't I think of that. However, when I checked a little it seems that it is not a good idea. Directional tires are supposed to channel more water (and snow???) out from under the tread so by reversing it you are not increasing your brake performance. Dang it I was ready to jack the car and switch the rears. https://www.wheels.ca/news/tires-hav...-for-a-reason/
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Old December 28th, 2017, 18:53   #52
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No the reason snow tires work one direction is that the rubber is at an angle. It gets compressed when it hits the road more than a tread that would be at 90* angle, the tread is at like an 80* angle? All I know is that it compresses against the angle of attack and creates a higher area of grip do to the rubber wanting to expand. If it goes backwards it wants to slip away from the road as the angle of attack is past the center axis of pressure not before it. Now with alreasonals that have a tread grove in them, that’s for directing water. Here watch this. For understanding the water removal
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhP1SntvttUhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhP1SntvttU
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Old December 28th, 2017, 19:19   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1.9ZOOK View Post
Snow/mud gets squished out the sides,if it was reversed mud/snow would
get packed towards the center of the tread.
Exactly. The idea is to give the tire contact patch as much purchase as possible on the underlying road surface.
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Old December 28th, 2017, 19:24   #54
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On the subject of reversing tread pattern, if a motor grader does not have front wheel drive, the front tires are reversed from the rear. So the rear "arrow" points to the rear, on the rear and point to the front on the front.

AWD graders all point to the rear.

Not sure it's relevant, but it's true.
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Old December 28th, 2017, 19:51   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbobrick240 View Post
I think having the tread reversed leaves a cleaner road surface behind the machine. Especially the back tire tracks, which don't get cleaned up by the blade. My neighbor used to have an old Austin Western road grader with one front tire mounted one way, and the other opposite. No idea what the reasoning, if any, was there.
What I meant was that on a non FWD grader, the rear tires are mounted like in the drawing earlier, but the fronts are mounted reverse. On an AWD, they are all mounted as drawn earlier.

Leaving tracks is irrelevant because the grader makes is level, but a roller will go behind and make it smooth. At least when prepping a surface. For smoothing a dirt road or plowing snow, maximum traction is paramount to tracks in the road.
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Old December 29th, 2017, 06:00   #56
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Good comments all, I like a lively discussion but it is hard to change peoples minds especially on something like this with vague facts.

I have and will continue to run the non driven tires on my cars, motorcycles, motor graders backwards. I have done it for years and my cars feel solid and fine in the snow. Like in 1.9Zook's drawing (which is correct for a non driven tire, and backwards for a driven one) it shows that the actual rotational torque on the tread is the force that starts the migration of snow or mud out of the tread. Look at tractor rear tires for an extreme example of that. So on non driven wheels the actual torque applied to the tread is on braking, otherwise they are just rolling like trailer tires.

Curiously enough i hatched this theory of reversing tires back in the stone ages before good tread compounds were plentiful and I ran studded snow tires in the winter. I noticed that the studs on the front would take a lean to one direction due to constant driving torque. The rears stayed straight for the most part. I would rotate as they wore according to the normal convention at the time, front to rear. I then noticed the then new to the front tires would also acquire the leaning stud over time. The rear tire that were formerly on the front started to stand the studs back up a little and over time loosened them to a point where they would throw out and be gone. I pondered that problem for a while and figured that if I left the torque push on the studs they would lean but not get loosened so easy. That is when I started reversing the tires on purpose on the non driven wheels to keep pushing the studs in one direction. it worked extremely well and I never lost another stud again. Now I detest studded tires due to road and shop floor destruction. The new studless tire work so well there is little use for studs anymore at all. That may also spawn retaliatory comments, but I am very convinced on that subject too.

The theory is the same though, and I have proven it to myself over many years and many sets of tires. I can burn through three sets of tires in a summer on my bike so I have had lots of chances to test it on that platform. I seem to go through only one set of tires a year on my car, and really only the winter tires are the ones I reverse intentionally by tread pattern as the road tires are symmetrical tread normally. I do cross rotate and change rolling direction of all tires even then.

Last edited by pdq import repair; December 29th, 2017 at 06:10.
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Old December 29th, 2017, 06:19   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whitedog View Post
What I meant was that on a non FWD grader, the rear tires are mounted like in the drawing earlier, but the fronts are mounted reverse. On an AWD, they are all mounted as drawn earlier.

Leaving tracks is irrelevant because the grader makes is level, but a roller will go behind and make it smooth. At least when prepping a surface. For smoothing a dirt road or plowing snow, maximum traction is paramount to tracks in the road.

Ok, that makes more sense. I googled road grader tire tread orientation, and the best explanation for the reversed front tire tread pattern seemed to be that they were more likely to turn than plow up on soft surfaces that way. Apparently some of the tires have arrows pointing one way for drive wheels, and arrows pointed the other way for un-driven wheels. It's interesting anecdotally, but probably not at all applicable to passenger cars.

Last edited by turbobrick240; December 29th, 2017 at 06:23.
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Old December 29th, 2017, 06:38   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbobrick240 View Post
Ok, that makes more sense. I googled road grader tire tread orientation, and the best explanation for the reversed front tire tread pattern seemed to be that they were more likely to turn than plow up on soft surfaces that way. Apparently some of the tires have arrows pointing one way for drive wheels, and arrows pointed the other way for un-driven wheels. It's interesting anecdotally, but probably not at all applicable to passenger cars.
Got 4 CAT graders at work but they run Michelin nobbly tires, I'll have a look to see if there directional. Probably not because I haven't seen directional arrow on side wall.
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Old December 29th, 2017, 07:02   #59
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I just checked my Kubota tractor ag tires, and there is one arrow marked traction wheel and an opposite arrow marked rolling wheel. I'll stick with all four mounted properly on my car though .
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Old December 29th, 2017, 09:13   #60
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On my (Great White North-driven) car I point directional tires the way the manufacturer intended, but on my mountain bike I mount 'em based on local conditions at the time. One way if I want traction, and backwards if I want braking... generally one of each.
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