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Dieselgate - VW Group Emission Scandal Discussion around the VW Dieselgate Emissions scandal. Details and news updates can be viewed here: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=448336 This forum is a work in progress depending on requirements, usage, etc.

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Old January 25th, 2018, 08:47   #61
maybe368
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There has been so much misinformation in this thread that I have to comment. All the discussion about altering the fix with a tune being illegal and voiding the warranty is moot, because ANY alteration of the emissions equipment, either before or after dieselgate, is and has always been against federal law. Lack of enforcement doesn't make it legal. The VW fanboys can flap their lips all they want, but is doesn't change the facts:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United...sion_standards
Have a nice day and see you again when I get disgusted enough with the crap slinging...Mark
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Old January 25th, 2018, 09:20   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maybe368 View Post
There has been so much misinformation in this thread that I have to comment. All the discussion about altering the fix with a tune being illegal and voiding the warranty is moot, because ANY alteration of the emissions equipment, either before or after dieselgate, is and has always been against federal law. Lack of enforcement doesn't make it legal. The VW fanboys can flap their lips all they want, but is doesn't change the facts:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United...sion_standards
Have a nice day and see you again when I get disgusted enough with the crap slinging...Mark
Where's the misinformation? Who was talking about legal or illegal?

And 93celicaconv, it's doubtful that a dealer tech would be able to access the flash counter, look at, or, even if they did, know how many flashes is appropriate for a specific vehicle. Cars are reflashed all the time for minor updates. Mine had been reflashed two or three times before I took delivery.
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Old January 25th, 2018, 10:12   #63
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It is a personal decision. Yes it is against Federal law. Yes you "could" be prosecuted. I have never heard of an individual ever being prosecuted for only a tune. Yes VW could void your warranty in part. Very rare occurrence from past reading, investigating. The likely hood of anything like this happening is very, very small but still possible. Just take that into account when deciding. Mine is staying stock for now. At some point I may change my mind, maybe not. If VW upholds their end of the deal when an issue arises it will stay stock. If not I may go off road.
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Old January 25th, 2018, 10:24   #64
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Well stated, Lightflyer1. Regarding maybe368's comments on misinformation and legal vs. not legal, I think that goes back to post 54 and earlier, not the latest posts. At least that is how in interpreted his response.
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Old January 25th, 2018, 18:15   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 93celicaconv View Post
As I understand it, the coding version changes (or rather indexes) with each flash. So if your car left with an emissions flash and came back with the same emissions flash it had when the emissions fix was done, but the coding version was different, VW would reject your warranty (unless VW reflashed and documented the change). You can check with Ross-Tech if you like.
I've read (somewhere on this forum, I think) that VW is not so good at keeping track of the flash count. Supposedly different cars have shown differing flash counts from factory, and increments >1 after a VW dealership intervention.
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Old January 25th, 2018, 18:23   #66
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I've read (somewhere on this forum, I think) that VW is not so good at keeping track of the flash count. Supposedly different cars have shown differing flash counts from factory, and increments >1 after a VW dealership intervention.
I'm hearing the same from Owain at Malone. A flash change is detectable, but dealer shops aren't nit picking it much. There is risk that a particular nit-picky service manager may invoke voidance of the extended warranty, and would have the right to do so, but it doesn't appeared to have happened yet, at least not in anyone's experience or observation on this forum.
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Old January 27th, 2018, 08:50   #67
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In regards to tunes without altering the hardware, is it an assumption that fuel economy can be improved? I've seen people mention it but I haven't seen the tuners claiming it. Seems counterintuitive to get more power and better FE unless you are talking about the original factory cheat.

I'd probably get a Stage 1 after the warranty is up unless it will have a net negative effect on my already diminished FE.
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Old January 27th, 2018, 09:12   #68
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It IS possible to get performance and economy with a tune. However some portion of driveability &\or pollution control will suffer, and you will have to keep your foot from attacking the floor through the throttle.
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Old January 27th, 2018, 09:18   #69
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I bought mine new, so I never got to experience it pre-fix, but with the 55.5 mpg I've gotten through 20,000 miles so far, I'm guessing it didn't lose too much FE with the fix. Power is fine for me. I didn't buy a TDI to drag race.
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Old January 27th, 2018, 10:49   #70
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Blue Hen, that's pretty astounding MPG. I see you are doing mostly highway and probably moderate speeds, but still. I always figured the Gen 3's would be able to adapt to the fix better than Gen 1. Just squirt in some more DEF.
Course I know they did more than that. Some Gen 3 owners aren't thrilled with performance after the fix.

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Old January 27th, 2018, 11:25   #71
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I understand. I just hate seeing people trying to talk themselves into an anecdotal groupthink conclusion on a message board. Figured I’d throw out some non-anecdotal numbers.
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Old January 27th, 2018, 22:26   #72
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People tuned the earlier cars due to 90 hp. Todays cars already come with more power than the tuned cars back then. I feel no need to tune my 2015 Beetle with 150 hp. It drives just fine as it is. Do you really think another 10hp or 20hp is going to be all that much difference in everyday driving?
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Old January 28th, 2018, 04:09   #73
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First off it’s more like 30 HP. And 50-60 lb/ft. Second, you shouldn’t reject a tuned car until you drive one. I find the big deal in normal driving is twofold: First, the car is much more responsive off the line. This is especially true with a manual transmission. Second, it pulls far better in top gear at 60+ MPH, dramatically decreasing the need to downshift.

So let’s see...more power, better drive ability, easier on emissions gear, comparable fuel economy. Seems like an easy choice. I understand folks’ concerns about warranty. And if this is an overriding concern then keeping the car stock is probably the best option.

For what it's worth, I never tuned my '12 Golf. 2-door car, usually just me in it. It was light and had adequate power. But in a wagon that I frequently drive with 4 people and luggage, the extra power is a big help. Just like it was when I got my first tune in my '02 Wagon back in '03.
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Old January 28th, 2018, 12:14   #74
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IBW, in regards to a tune being "easier on emissions gear", could you elaborate on that a little? I'm assuming you're talking about a non-deleted car.

Thanks.
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Old January 28th, 2018, 13:48   #75
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Short answer is less frequent regens, less Adblue use. Emissions operations profile is more similar to a non-"fixed" car than a fixed one.
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