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Dieselgate - VW Group Emission Scandal Discussion around the VW Dieselgate Emissions scandal. Details and news updates can be viewed here: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=448336 This forum is a work in progress depending on requirements, usage, etc.

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Old August 24th, 2017, 10:03   #16
93celicaconv
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I've been watching the reactions on post-fix inputs here closely also. I would say the ratio is closer to 1:1 (bad results:no change or better). I didn't do any statistics though. But I agree with IndigoBlueWagon in that if one can afford to wait this out and see more hard data, a better choice can be made. I have an extended warranty from when I bought the car from a dealer in May 2015 that gets me to May 2018, and it covers all emissions and fuel systems - a bumper-to-bumper warranty extension. I have about 82,500 miles on it now so I can ride out the HPFP issue without problem until then (manufacturer warranty extension), plus the DPF issue (purchased extended warranty coverage). I'm hoping that by May 2018, the ration is as IndigoBlueWagon feels it is now - would make me feel a lot better getting the fix done.
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Old August 24th, 2017, 10:05   #17
93celicaconv
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Originally Posted by oilhammer View Post
I agree, that makes no sense to me. They were doing EGR/DPF delete tunes before, but now suddenly they won't put it back to factory? Certainly the "cheating" cars run cleaner than one with no EGR or DPF at all! At least my scientific nose thinks so, LOL.
Just for reference, I believe the delete tunes are advertised for "off-road only" now. So maybe they will reverse the effects of the fix as long as they are advertised for "off-road use only." Time will tell. I don't think most tuners have had a chance to digest the Gen 1 2.0L TDI fix changes yet.
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Old August 24th, 2017, 10:09   #18
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Anecdotal evidence, is not evidence.

Lets see a before/after dyno. A before/after timed/video'd 0-60 run.
Before/after mpg (with many tanks and miles to establish a real trend).

People believe that a louder car is a faster car. The butt-dyno and placebo effect give all kinds of wrong answers when it comes to modifying cars.
I have never really used all of the power and torque that my TDIs make. It's the mid-range torque level while getting exceptional fuel economy that I like(d). I am driving no differently, and look at my fuelly link below.

I notice that my old wrecked 2014 could maintain better mpg, EVEN WHILE ACCELERATING, and EASILY MAINTAIN SPEED WITH WELL OVER 40 MPG in the city. The gallons used, versus miles driven are pretty irrefutable. It just happens to be obvious on the live mpg monitoring, as well.

I never drove this 2015 GOLF Wagon before it was modified, but it sucks fuel while accelerating, and can't maintain speeds with 40+ mpg the way my 2014 did. It sucks. THIS IS NOT ANECDOTAL!

So I am faced with spending lots of money on garage work (delete... DPF?) and an expensive tune, just to get the 40+ mpg I thought I would get?
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Old August 24th, 2017, 10:26   #19
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Originally Posted by forrest resto`s View Post
what to do after neutered..been reading that some cars are really ruined after mod.. what are our options to fix this?.. according to the description from VW this should not be this bad...loss of power and really dropped mpg's...I have an appointment for my 2011 6mt next week and am seriously concerned that my car will be ruined.....where do we draw the line where the fix does more negative results than VW says it will do..e.g. 4-6 loss of mpg...10-25% loss of power? what will be enough loss that it is unacceptable?? Where/when will we say, or draw a line and say "this is not what is supposed to happen//you have ruined my car..this IS unacceptable"
Use some of the money from VW to tune your car. You can keep all emissions intact and go stage 2 from Malone. This may void the extended warranty so mod at your own risk.

The only real gripe about the fix so far for me is that my DSG shifts a little later than I was used to during the first 150,000 miles of the cars life. I can easily fix that with a Malone DSG tune. See my review of the fix in the "Completed fix thread".
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Old August 24th, 2017, 10:29   #20
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Originally Posted by 93celicaconv View Post
Just for reference, I believe the delete tunes are advertised for "off-road only" now. So maybe they will reverse the effects of the fix as long as they are advertised for "off-road use only." Time will tell. I don't think most tuners have had a chance to digest the Gen 1 2.0L TDI fix changes yet.
Been tuning them without issue since last week, probably have to update the odd flashzilla. Nothing too crazy on the surface map wise, haven't dug into the emissions changes that much.

We don't modify the emissions components unless they're removed entirely. So DPF regen frequency, low EGR control etc will all be left how VW set them. DPFs are very delicate so we'd rather not experiment with that, at least not yet. Sample size, climate variations and long term testing would be needed and we're not huge on testing files on the public.

VW faced some hefty files for tampering with emissions components so it wouldn't be wise to reverse an update that they were required to release. Same goes with force-passing readiness monitors for those with deletes. They've cast a large spot light and we'd rather not be dragged through the dirt with them. Plus, where the fun in a stock power tune anyway?
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Old August 24th, 2017, 12:31   #21
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Originally Posted by Owain@malonetuning View Post
Been tuning them without issue since last week, probably have to update the odd flashzilla. Nothing too crazy on the surface map wise, haven't dug into the emissions changes that much.

We don't modify the emissions components unless they're removed entirely. So DPF regen frequency, low EGR control etc will all be left how VW set them. DPFs are very delicate so we'd rather not experiment with that, at least not yet. Sample size, climate variations and long term testing would be needed and we're not huge on testing files on the public.

VW faced some hefty files for tampering with emissions components so it wouldn't be wise to reverse an update that they were required to release. Same goes with force-passing readiness monitors for those with deletes. They've cast a large spot light and we'd rather not be dragged through the dirt with them. Plus, where the fun in a stock power tune anyway?
I'm not clear on one thing.. as far as yours and kerma..and other tuners do you have a tune that can be reversed to stock so we may keep our warranty from the fix?.. like my 2011 jetta 6mt? Thanx.. I would be more than happy to go that route and get the fix and a tune after if possible..just would like to not lose that warranty.. also a downloadable tune/detune thru obd port here at home...if possible

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Old August 24th, 2017, 14:04   #22
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So you want to cheat like VW did and then hide the fact and not get caught. If you value the warranty leave the car alone. If you want the tune then take all that comes with it. Just because you can/may get away with something doesn't make it right. I have nothing against the tune but with those who are willing to cheat to get their way. Don't stand on the fence, pick a side and stay there.
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Old August 24th, 2017, 14:39   #23
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For those who care:

I just drove my unfixed 2012 manual Passat compared to a fixed 2015 manual Passat and the loss of power was definitely noticeable. I realize that I am comparing a Gen 2 to a Gen 3, but the torque on the fixed Gen 3 was nothing compared to my Gen 2.

My Gen 2 is stock and felt peppy and sporty it has the ability to throw you in your seat. The Gen 3 was laggy and slow.

Glad I am doing the buyback and not waiting for a Gen 2 fix for the manuals. If I waited the money would definitely be going to a tune to unfix it.
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Old August 24th, 2017, 14:44   #24
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Originally Posted by forrest resto`s View Post
I'm not clear on one thing.. as far as yours and kerma..and other tuners do you have a tune that can be reversed to stock so we may keep our warranty from the fix?.. like my 2011 jetta 6mt? Thanx.. I would be more than happy to go that route and get the fix and a tune after if possible..just would like to not lose that warranty.. also a downloadable tune/detune thru obd port here at home...if possible
All tunes are detectable, regardless of how you tune it. If it's a major concern it'd be best to leave the vehicle alone. It's fairly rare that VW will make a fuss about it and flag cars, but it can happen.


We will not be offering to revert cars back to the "cheat" software. If you want more power, we offer performance tunes.
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Old August 24th, 2017, 14:45   #25
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Not manuals, but we have a fixed 2015, and unfixed (for the moment) 2013 Passats . . .

I can't tell any difference in power . . . throttle/pedal response seems smoother on the 2015, but that's about it . . .
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Old August 24th, 2017, 15:01   #26
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For those who care:

I just drove my unfixed 2012 manual Passat compared to a fixed 2015 manual Passat and the loss of power was definitely noticeable. I realize that I am comparing a Gen 2 to a Gen 3, but the torque on the fixed Gen 3 was nothing compared to my Gen 2.

My Gen 2 is stock and felt peppy and sporty it has the ability to throw you in your seat. The Gen 3 was laggy and slow.

Glad I am doing the buyback and not waiting for a Gen 2 fix for the manuals. If I waited the money would definitely be going to a tune to unfix it.
I had a 2013 Passat tdi and it never had the ability to "throw you in your seat". Bad choice of words maybe. It would accelerate smartly as does the new left over 2015 Beetle I just bought.
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Old August 24th, 2017, 15:04   #27
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So you want to cheat like VW did and then hide the fact and not get caught. If you value the warranty leave the car alone. If you want the tune then take all that comes with it. Just because you can/may get away with something doesn't make it right. I have nothing against the tune but with those who are willing to cheat to get their way. Don't stand on the fence, pick a side and stay there.
What's not right is ruining my car..You must have missed my previous post...if the fix makes my car a slug and drops mpg's alot.. Your darn right I will get a tune..and I feel I have every right to do that...amen! all I want is my car to behave like it was when I bought it new.. that is why I bought it>>and if I can reverse it to save warranty.. yey!
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Old August 24th, 2017, 15:34   #28
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It didn't ruin your car, just some things changed, and you were notified that the changes were expected to impact these areas. If you aren't happy take it back and tell them something is wrong and let them fix it. If not that sell it back and be done with it. Or tune it and keep it that way. All I object to is those who would lie about it after the fact to force VW to keep the warranty on the car for repairs. It isn't reversing it, it is cheating and trying not to get caught at it. But go ahead and be a big fat liar if you want to.
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Old August 24th, 2017, 16:53   #29
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so you guys that are saying get the tune after.. this presents a problem if true..but then again.. they were doing their tunes before all this diesel gate stuff...
I'm would think altering the federal mandated emissions programs somewhat before would be questionable.. right? What's the difference?
I have read all your posts in this thread, and I think you are a candidate for the buyback, not the fix. Whatever losses are involved with the car, sounds like they're going to stick in your craw as long as you drive it. If not the buyback, then maybe you're one of that group (I suspect a rather small one) that should just do nothing, and drive on.
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Old August 25th, 2017, 10:19   #30
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So first everyone is angry that VW "cheated", and now that VW fixed it, they are angry that they themselves can't cheat? Got it.
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