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Dieselgate - VW Group Emission Scandal Discussion around the VW Dieselgate Emissions scandal. Details and news updates can be viewed here: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=448336 This forum is a work in progress depending on requirements, usage, etc.

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Old May 22nd, 2017, 14:45   #1
Yelper
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Default New Research Paper implies Bosch's ECU as defeat device

Really interesting paper as part of the IEEE Symposium on Security and Privacy... some researchers have published a paper that describes in technical detail how the defeat device works -- and all the code is the ECU built by Bosch.

The researchers also imply that Fiat 500Xs (diesel) also have a defeat device with the same ECU, though through a different codepath (and the researchers claim to be the first to find it).

All in all, pretty damn interesting. Here's the paper link again, which was presented today at the conference: https://www.ieee-security.org/TC/SP2017/papers/101.pdf
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Old May 22nd, 2017, 14:55   #2
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Here's a figure -- if the parameters fall outside the white area, the defeat device is canceled. The lines represent different, publicly-available emission test cycles... for example, FTP-75 is the EPA's emissions test.
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Old May 22nd, 2017, 16:23   #3
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This is genius!

Here is a video of the same results, presented by one of the researchers in the IEEE paper, Felix Domke.

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/201...al-mode-video/
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Old May 23rd, 2017, 11:41   #4
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I just read the article. This is by far the most comprehensive review of how the emissions systems work and how the software "defeated" them. A very interesting read!
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Old May 23rd, 2017, 12:12   #5
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Making this a sticky thread for a while. Thanks for posting!
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Old May 24th, 2017, 10:55   #6
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A great post, and very informative video. First actual information about what was behind Dieselgate to appear in quite a while.
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Old May 28th, 2017, 03:48   #7
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Same as saying Intel and AMD are behind every virus, as theirs are the CPU that viruses ultimately execute on.

Exactly what gets coded into the ECU is the car manufacturer's code, maps etc.

ECU is just a computer that takes in a whole lotta input (temps, throttle pos, speed, air flow, emissions reading etc ) and controls some systems via its outputs - injection timing and duration, gears/RPMs in case of DSG/automatic etc). It consults the maps to determine most of its outputs: if throttle pos is X, temps are Y, air flow is Z, then do this .
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Old May 28th, 2017, 21:01   #8
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Bosch would have written the code that facilitates a multiple-setpoint distance-versus-time logic to set a bit that enables other things to be turned on or off, though.

By the way, there is a legitimate use for "dyno mode": Disabling traction control so that the vehicle can be tested on a dynamometer without the ESP/TC/ABS freaking out. But using that bit to change the way the engine runs (i.e. emission control functions) - aside from disabling the torque-limiting functions of ESP/TC - is a no-no.

On my motorcycle that has the second-from-latest-generation TC/ABS, if it sees rear wheel speed without front wheel speed, the warning lamp comes on and stays on, and it disables TC but it also no longer limits engine torque via the TC functions. Doesn't change the way the fuel injection and emission controls work, though. BUT. If you convert this bike to a roadracing application and run it in a class that has horsepower/weight restrictions, there is not a whole lot stopping an enterprising tuner from using that bit to limit the drive-by-wire throttle so that it meets the horsepower restrictions on the dyno but not out on the track ...
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Old June 1st, 2017, 05:59   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoFaster View Post
<snip>

By the way, there is a legitimate use for "dyno mode": Disabling traction control so that the vehicle can be tested on a dynamometer without the ESP/TC/ABS freaking out. But using that bit to change the way the engine runs (i.e. emission control functions) - aside from disabling the torque-limiting functions of ESP/TC - is a no-no.

<snip
But, while acknowledging that there may be non-illegal applications for "dyno mode," given the way some people "scan" posts on this forum, I think it cannot be emphasized enough that there is nothing legitimate about what VW / Bosch did in putting this software in the ECU. It was done to get around emissions requirements they could not -or were not willing to- meet. Period.
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Old June 5th, 2017, 10:01   #10
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Rico, i might defer to your signature. "I reject your reality and substitute my own" 😉

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Old June 9th, 2017, 11:35   #11
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjlHtLux9vc is the video with Editorial info
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7t4paclIwuU is the scientific programming video.

Last edited by bobthefarmer; June 9th, 2017 at 12:09. Reason: added YouTube video content
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Old June 9th, 2017, 12:45   #12
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As a long time "blamer" of guilt on BOSCH

Where as some on TDICLUB were of the opinion BOSCH will "skate"

I only wish BOSCH would have had to pony up more $$$$s

Especially on the 2.0 L units.

Noting: VW wanted to cheat. But VW did not have the intelligence to do it alone.
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Old June 9th, 2017, 18:40   #13
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Pretty familiar situation in the automotive industry. Large customer (the auto manufacturer) says "jump". Supplier says "how high".
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Old June 11th, 2017, 20:53   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobthefarmer View Post
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjlHtLux9vc is the video with Editorial info
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7t4paclIwuU is the scientific programming video.
The technical video is very interesting. Most of it is a case study of an Opel car that emitted higher NOx than during emissions tests. Seems they had a "defeat device" although they would not admit to it. Instead, they decided to correct it. It's encouraging to see the emissions standards met while selling a reasonably priced car (GM and the Cruze diesel, Opel engine, in the U.S. with superior fuel economy and comparable performance). That being said, I do wonder if by complying they are significantly reducing the life of the emissions equipment, especially the DPF.

It saddens me to think that if VW would have approached the situation like Opel did that we might still be able to purchase new TDIs today.
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Old July 19th, 2017, 07:31   #15
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Thanks for sharing the article, very interesting indeed. Ironically when I was reading this I was replaying some of my lectures of Operating Systems in my undergraduate degree course work. My degree was in Computer Engineering so many of the items in this article made sense of what the writers were doing.

Upon reading towards the end of the article did you all get the sense VW was testing parameters of the ECU of what they could and could not achieve within the EPA testing. Then eventually felt comfortable to add complexity to their cheat device.

-tkd

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