I finally had my timing belt "event" not that I wanted to

Well it happened to me. Something got inside the timing belt cover and momentarily jammed the belt. I'm missing about 8" of teeth. I was so sure when it quit that it couldn't be the belt, yes I looked at as much of it as you can alongside the road with no tools and a dog collar in place. It seemed tight and the teeth I could see were fine.
I was on a hill so I even tried poping the clutch. A friend towed it home Thursday night and I let it set till yesterday. I pulled the timing cover and this is what I found. Debris field.

After I got the belt off you can see the damage.


I'm not sure what it was or how it got in but the damage is clear. I was about 65k miles on this belt, the water pump , roller and tensioner are all in good shape no failures there. I was planning on doing the belt in late September to mid October when I would hit the 80k mark.
So I've found an engine and I think I'm just going to swap engines. That way I'll have all kinds of extra parts , turbo, tandem pump, egr, etc,etc.
Anybody want to share from their past experience what the object might have been? I'm thinking small rock. I found nothing in the pile of debris, other than teeth.
About three weeks ago I adjusted my torsion a bit. That's the only time the cover has been off in over a year. Could something have fallen in then and stayed out of the belt path for three weeks?

i doubt any foreign object caused the failure, what brand of belt ? conti ? dayco ? gates? ... who did the last install ? was the engine ever turned via the cam pulley ? i've seen other early PD belt failures on here, just trying to collect data

also i would check the lifters before you condemn the engine... i have seen at least one PD BEW that escaped damage after a shredded tooth event

Conti, I installed the belt myself, no the cam has never been used to turn the engine.

If you look at the last belt pic my finger is at the beginning of a gouge about 3" long. If you hold the belt up to the light the gouge is deep enough so that little pin holes of light show through. Also where the gouge ends the shredded teeth begin. That's why I though that something got into the belt path.

I'm planning on removing the head tonight. So I'll have a verdict but I'm expecting valve collisions and maybe after the pop start attempt a bent rod or two.

did you check inside of the timing covers seal holders for damage ? are all the cam bolts in place ? all three water pump bolts are tight ?

also what was the belt direction in relation to the gouge ? is the gouge in front of the shredded teeth in relation to engine rotation or behind the teeth ... this may give some clue as to where to search for other related damage and possibly give you an answer

Cam bolts are all in place and tight. Nothing seems to be missing, I even checked and the tiny washers on the dog collar are still on the bolts. I drive on a lot of gravel roads maybe when I adjusted the torsion 3 weeks ago something fell down in the cover and finally got sucked into the belt.

I appreciate the back and forth, giving me additional ideas, I know your level of experience is far greater than mine.

I have not pulled the water pump yet , I can get my eye on two of the three bolts the engine mount is in the way of viewing the third. The pump is not leaking.

The TB cover clips are accounted for. The tensioner and roller nuts were both in place. I was expecting a seized tensioner or roller. I figured a water pump seizure would have eaten most of the teeth, and been easily seen even from the top when I just partially pulled the cover by the side of the road.

maybe run a magnet through the duffed belt tooth pile ? ... i'm assuming you don't run a skid plate or skirts ? hence your theory on a rocky intruder

Diesel geek skid plate and skirt on that side, none on the other side. I'll try the magnet I didn't think of that.

Tdijarhead said:

I'm planning on removing the head tonight. So I'll have a verdict but I'm expecting valve collisions and maybe after the pop start attempt a bent rod or two.

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Before you go to far, maybe with the valve cover off see if any lifters have a lot of clearance between the top of the lifter and the cam.
Spider cracking on the lifter caps is another give away of collision.
If you have the crank off of top dead center (all 4 pistons below the top) you could turn the cam slowly and watch.
If you get resistance you know a piston is up a bit.
Might save taking the head off.

With 8 teeth missing and the starting attempts, contact was surely made.
Off with its head!

flee said:

With 8 teeth missing and the starting attempts, contact was surely made.
Off with its head!

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not so fast, while chances are slim, the one i inspected had just as many if not more teeth missing and no VC ...

I am planning on removing the head tonight, it's not just 8 teeth, I'm missing about 8 inches of teeth, I didn't even bother counting but 20-30 would be my guess. When I saw that many teeth gone I just assumed that contact was made.


I just did a quick count in my pic above and I count 19 missing teeth and I know 4 others are loose or hanging by a thread.

What you say about the gouge and teeth missing, I would say a rock or something got in and the gouge is where it bound and stopped the belt.
Near the bottom is where the casting wraps around the belt and where the object got jammed.
Could be a small screw or something.

It's likely that the crank pulley is what ripped off the teeth, about the right length as you described

at least pull the cam first and look at the lifters before pulling the head... you would kick yourself if no damage and you needlessly pulled the head, i know chances are slim but i have seen them escape damage... just sayin

Well I've already gone to far I've got everything loose including the headbolts. I planned on getting it off tonight but I had some other issues come up. (yard work). So I wasn't able to actually pull the head.

You're right I would kick myself, from the time I saw all those missing teeth I resigned myself to at least redoing the head. If it turns out all I needed was a new belt....

On a related note, would there be any fitment issues putting a 2006 BEW into a 2005?

Did the waterpump seize? Or the impeller break off and jam in the block?

Eric

It is possible to not have any damage after a attempted start. Hopefully that's the case. I had a Honda b18a1 the belt failed on going down the street. Those engines have about a 98% death rate for broken belts. New belt and away it went.

Strange things sometimes happen.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Tdijarhead said:

On a related note, would there be any fitment issues putting a 2006 BEW into a 2005?

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no issues .... but if it's from a beetle you may need to change the hard coolant pipe on the front of the block

Jimbote and AnotherPerson, one question:
would you let your daughter drive that VW across country
after a belt mishap like that without examining the piston tops up close and personal?
I wouldn't.

flee said:

Jimbote and AnotherPerson, one question:
would you let your daughter drive that VW across country
after a belt mishap like that without examining the piston tops up close and personal?
I wouldn't.

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This is my 05 PD, not her Beetle. I do a lot of local driving. The car quit about 15 miles from home, once my friend towed it back to the top of the hill on which it died I coasted down hill for about 3 miles or so. (The other side) Then we hooked back on it with a tow chain and pulled it the rest of the way home. Those are always fun rides.

Thanks Jimbote for the expertise of the 05-06 interchange. I have the head all loose, the headbolts are on my bench, I just need to get time to lift it off.

flee said:

Jimbote and AnotherPerson, one question:
would you let your daughter drive that VW across country
after a belt mishap like that without examining the piston tops up close and personal?
I wouldn't.

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not sure what your level of experience is flee, but i would never pull a head without first seeing evidence of contact... i know what to look for and how to assess damage without carpet bombing an engine compartment by ripping the head off like an automaton ....maybe my time is more valuable than to be needlessly creating more work and needlessly wasting $$$ ... if a head needs to come off it will if not it stays....

Well I took the time to pull the head this morning, before going off to work.
What do you think?

no doubt about it, you had contact

Kissy Kissy Smashy smashy.

Growler said:

Kissy Kissy Smashy smashy.

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hahaha!

Uh, yeah.

Growler said:

Kissy Kissy Smashy smashy.

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About fell off my chair laughing