www.tdiclub.com

Economy - Longevity - Performance
The #1 Source of TDI Information on the Web!
Forums Articles Links Meets
Orders TDI Club Cards TDIFest 2016 Gone, but not forgotten VAG-Com List Unit Conversions TDIClub Chat Thank You




Go Back   TDIClub Forums > VW TDI Discussion Areas > Dieselgate - VW Group Emission Scandal

Dieselgate - VW Group Emission Scandal Discussion around the VW Dieselgate Emissions scandal. Details and news updates can be viewed here: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=448336 This forum is a work in progress depending on requirements, usage, etc.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old March 8th, 2018, 16:49   #1291
bizzle
Veteran Member
 
bizzle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Southern California
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by halbert View Post
Which is a change from the original settlement language. Sigh.
How can I find out if I have to actually surrender the vehicle? Which means paying for a tow to the dealer for no good reason. The letter implies it when it talks about surrendering for buyback...but doesn't really say anything about the restitution payment requirement.
I guess you can interpret it as a change, but some of us were pointing out over a year ago that it was the only reasonable way to interpret the settlement terms. This issue was brought up during the stripping era and the people arguing against it were, like here, predisposed to believe they were right and VW was wrong. The judge ruled back then that cars had to be operable so that's an old change but even under the original black letter text the cars were required to be able to drive under their own power (which non-registered cars can't legally on the streets, which is the logic some of us tried to explain before the stripping modification and the logic the judge used to reach his conclusion).
bizzle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 8th, 2018, 17:03   #1292
yurkin89
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Sacramento
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fookin View Post
Why would it matter if a prior owner was a lessee or not and whether or not that lessee received restitution or not? I don't read that condition anywhere nor do I understand the logic behind it. The new owner of the car that was purchased at auction and restored/titled should be eligible as per (iii) of page 40 of the Feb Claims Supervisor Report.
Spoke to Phong-Chau G. Nguyen according to him if the car was leased on
Sep. 2016 only the lesee will be eligible for his restitution part only. No buy back will be available for next owner!
yurkin89 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 8th, 2018, 17:38   #1293
drsven
Veteran Member
 
drsven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Bay Area
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by halbert View Post
Which is a change from the original settlement language. Sigh.

How can I find out if I have to actually surrender the vehicle? Which means paying for a tow to the dealer for no good reason. The letter implies it when it talks about surrendering for buyback...but doesn't really say anything about the restitution payment requirement.
Appeal with the CRC, highlight in red below. It can't hurt to try. If all else fails and they only offer a restitution payment, you should be able to retain the vehicle.

(ii) Owners who acquired their vehicles prior to September 18, 2015, with a nonbranded
or salvage rebuilt title may be eligible for both Vehicle Value and Owner
Restitution if the vehicles currently have a branded title (including salvage and
salvage rebuilt titles)
,
provided that all other eligibility requirements are met. If
the vehicle currently has a brand of junk, non-repairable, “parts only,” or any
equivalent brand denoting that the vehicle can never be rebuilt or repaired, the
vehicle is eligible only for Owner Restitution.
drsven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 8th, 2018, 17:48   #1294
bizzle
Veteran Member
 
bizzle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Southern California
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by halbert View Post
In accident 11/25/16, insurance totaled but never transferred title to insurance. Kept possession based on original settlement info. Holds certificate of salvage (not registerable) in PA.
When an insurance company totals your car they report it to the DMV and your title is no longer valid.

That certificate of salvage you received is your current paperwork on the car. The old title is void even though you physically kept it in your desk otherwise you could take that car and sell it someone as a "clean" title car and they wouldn't find out until the DMV sent them their new title (or worse, they wouldn't even be able to register it once the VIN was cross-referenced in the computer).

Over here on the west coast, insurance companies will tell you to take the title (if you own it) and write VOID all over it and then mail it in, but even if they let you keep it the title isn't valid anymore. Some states are more loose in this regard and aren't as proactive at keeping people from washing titles or selling totaled cars with old titles and then the new buyer gets the transferred title with a brand on it.

If you are eligible for anything at all, it'll be for owner's restitution. It'll be an uphill battle to argue for more. As far as VW, class counsel, and the judge are concerned you received an offer of just compensation from your insurance company at the time of the accident.
bizzle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 8th, 2018, 18:07   #1295
halbert
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Pennsylvania
Default

So the question now is....

The letter is the boilerplate buyback letter, and it talks about making an appointment and surrendering the vehicle. It doesn't really say if the vehicle has to go to VW for restitution only. Still feels like I'm in a crack.
halbert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 8th, 2018, 18:10   #1296
bizzle
Veteran Member
 
bizzle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Southern California
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by halbert View Post
So the question now is....
The letter is the boilerplate buyback letter, and it talks about making an appointment and surrendering the vehicle. It doesn't really say if the vehicle has to go to VW for restitution only. Still feels like I'm in a crack.
The restitution was supposed to make owners whole in regards to the scandal of driving high NOx vehicles that were sold under the "clean diesel" campaign.

The buyback amount was supposed to make owners whole for returning their vehicles to VW.

That should mean you will receive the restitution without surrounding your vehicle.
bizzle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 9th, 2018, 10:33   #1297
fredthe
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Bowie, MD
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bizzle View Post
When an insurance company totals your car they report it to the DMV and your title is no longer valid.
This is not universally true. I have two (non-TDI) vehicles that were declared totaled by the insurance company (and show as such in VIN searches) but the Maryland MVA continues to register them. The damage was mostly cosmetic and I was able to pay for the repairs out-of-pocket for less than the insurance company settlement, but I never had to get a salvage inspection.

This is a prime example of the issues when dealing with totaled vehicles, every state is different.
__________________

fredthe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 9th, 2018, 10:44   #1298
bizzle
Veteran Member
 
bizzle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Southern California
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fredthe View Post
This is not universally true. I have two (non-TDI) vehicles that were declared totaled by the insurance company (and show as such in VIN searches) but the Maryland MVA continues to register them. The damage was mostly cosmetic and I was able to pay for the repairs out-of-pocket for less than the insurance company settlement, but I never had to get a salvage inspection.
This is a prime example of the issues when dealing with totaled vehicles, every state is different.
I didn't say anything about being able to register your car, but without a doubt your original, clean title is no longer valid even if you still have it in your hand. Your state may not require you to turn it in, but if you sell your car with that old title and fail to disclose its status you would be committing a crime.

While every state will handle what they do with titles differently, all states are going to require an insurance company report a total loss claim to them and just because you happen to physical hold some paperwork in your hand it's not safe to assume you didn't relinquish certain rights to the vehicle when you claim a total loss.

Last edited by bizzle; March 9th, 2018 at 10:47.
bizzle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 9th, 2018, 13:14   #1299
fookin
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: California
TDI(s): A3
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by yurkin89 View Post
Spoke to Phong-Chau G. Nguyen according to him if the car was leased on
Sep. 2016 only the lesee will be eligible for his restitution part only. No buy back will be available for next owner!
So then:

Prior owner leased, wrecked after 2016, lessee received restitution (or some split between lessee and VW), auction, new owner, rebuilt, registered, no buyback or restitution.

Same as above but prior owner owned, buyback for value only available.

That's all new information.
fookin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 9th, 2018, 13:17   #1300
lvrpl
Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Texas
TDI(s): Passat TDI
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bizzle View Post
I didn't say anything about being able to register your car, but without a doubt your original, clean title is no longer valid even if you still have it in your hand. Your state may not require you to turn it in, but if you sell your car with that old title and fail to disclose its status you would be committing a crime.

While every state will handle what they do with titles differently, all states are going to require an insurance company report a total loss claim to them and just because you happen to physical hold some paperwork in your hand it's not safe to assume you didn't relinquish certain rights to the vehicle when you claim a total loss.
This is not correct. There are, in fact, a few states where a car could be declared a total loss by insurance but not issued a salvage title (nor would it turn to salvage when turned in to another state's DMV).

For example, in Colorado, hail damage does not cause a title to be branded. So there are many cars in Colorado that suffer hail damage and are declared a total loss by the insurance company but the state does not and will not issue a branded title. The title stays clean, even if you take it to another state to title and register. Hence, a Carfax will say it was totaled but the title is legitimately clean still. A call to the Colorado DMV will confirm this. Texas is similar.

As others have stated, the bottom line really is that salvage titling practices and requirements vary, sometimes widely, from state to state.

Last edited by lvrpl; March 9th, 2018 at 13:20.
lvrpl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 9th, 2018, 15:41   #1301
bizzle
Veteran Member
 
bizzle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Southern California
Default

You are clearly misunderstanding some internet information and I'm not going to argue with your. Suffice to say, the process you think you are describing is illegal.
bizzle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 9th, 2018, 16:11   #1302
drsven
Veteran Member
 
drsven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Bay Area
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bizzle View Post
You are clearly misunderstanding some internet information and I'm not going to argue with your. Suffice to say, the process you think you are describing is illegal.
Chill out man! Not every discussion or disagreement needs to turn into an argument!
drsven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 9th, 2018, 18:50   #1303
lvrpl
Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Texas
TDI(s): Passat TDI
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bizzle View Post
You are clearly misunderstanding some internet information and I'm not going to argue with your. Suffice to say, the process you think you are describing is illegal.
Again, incorrect. If you're so certain that you're correct, I'd challenge you to call the Colorado DMV and ask them. Seriously - before you dismissively brush off other people because you assume you must know better, call the source. I am 100% certain you will find you are mistaken, at least in the state of Colorado (and Texas, for that matter).

Don't take my word for it. Call them. Just to prove me wrong. Also, you describe that process as illegal. Being the legal expert you've told us you are previously, please show us the legal statute in Colorado that dictates a branded title must be issued in every case that an insurance company declares a car a total loss.

And if you can actually cite anyone or anything saying that what I described is illegal or not possible in Colorado, I will happily apologize and and readily admit that I was mistaken. And by the way, while I may not be a trained attorney as you've implied you are, I have worked with an auto rebuilder for a couple of decades and am very familiar with how the process of branding titles works in states across the country. But again, in this case, a short chat with Colorado's DMV and Titles staff will easily answer this question.

Last edited by lvrpl; March 9th, 2018 at 18:52.
lvrpl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 9th, 2018, 19:06   #1304
lvrpl
Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Texas
TDI(s): Passat TDI
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lvrpl View Post
Again, incorrect. If you're so certain that you're correct, I'd challenge you to call the Colorado DMV and ask them. Seriously - before you dismissively brush off other people because you assume you must know better, call the source. I am 100% certain you will find you are mistaken, at least in the state of Colorado (and Texas, for that matter).

Don't take my word for it. Call them. Just to prove me wrong. Also, you describe that process as illegal. Being the legal expert you've told us you are previously, please show us the legal statute in Colorado that dictates a branded title must be issued in every case that an insurance company declares a car a total loss.

And if you can actually cite anyone or anything saying that what I described is illegal or not possible in Colorado, I will happily apologize and and readily admit that I was mistaken. And by the way, while I may not be a trained attorney as you've implied you are, I have worked with an auto rebuilder for a couple of decades and am very familiar with how the process of branding titles works in states across the country. But again, in this case, a short chat with Colorado's DMV and Titles staff will easily answer this question.
Ok, I'll help you out a bit. Take a look at this link straight from the Colorado DMV website (which cites Colorado statutes), and notice the phrase "excluding hail damage".

https://www.colorado.gov/pacific/dmv/salvage-vehicles

Sure, most states don't do this. And, yes, in the vast majority of cases in the vast majority states, a car that is totaled by an insurance company must and does result in a branded title. But not always. And your absolute statements on this topic aren't correct and are spreading misinformation to a lot of people that are already in a stressful situation.
lvrpl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 9th, 2018, 19:50   #1305
fookin
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: California
TDI(s): A3
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lvrpl View Post
Again, incorrect.
Bizzle, aka Mr. Bigglesworth, has a history of impassioned proclamations so don't take them too seriously. I think somewhere he's claimed he invented the question mark. Don't make him mad.
fookin is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
salvage titles sooner Ontario 5 June 1st, 2011 21:38
CLEAN CLEAN 02 VW Jetta GLS TDI Silver w/black leather interior ctd2001 TDI Cars for Sale/Wanted 7 July 14th, 2009 18:51
link titles runonbeer TDIClub and TDIClub Forum News, Issues, Problems and Suggestions 2 January 31st, 2006 20:28
Titles kabatc TDIClub and TDIClub Forum News, Issues, Problems and Suggestions 1 September 4th, 2004 20:43
LOOK AT YOUR TITLES. LMIST1 VW MKIV-A4 TDIs (VE and PD) 23 September 3rd, 2002 16:01


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 21:48.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright - TDIClub Online LTD - 2017
Contact Us | Privacy Statement | Forum Rules | Disclaimer
TDIClub Online Ltd (TDIClub.com) is not affiliated with the VWoA or VWAG and is supported by contributions from viewers like you.
© 1996 - 2017, All Rights Reserved
Page generated in 0.20422 seconds with 10 queries
[Output: 140.40 Kb. compressed to 119.01 Kb. by saving 21.39 Kb. (15.23%)]